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Author Topic: Garzik encourages regulation  (Read 12482 times)
MacFall
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June 08, 2011, 08:06:51 PM
 #41

I can not agree with regulation idea more.

Neither could I. My disgust at the idea has my agreement stuck permanently at negative infinity.

No king but Christ; no law but Liberty!

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MacFall
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June 08, 2011, 08:08:51 PM
 #42

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You sound like you need a visit from one of those lovely Silk Road escorts.

No king but Christ; no law but Liberty!

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theymos
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June 08, 2011, 08:09:38 PM
 #43

If any back-doors are ever put into the client, that version will be removed from bitcoin.org. Bitcoin.org is independent from the developers.

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xf2_org
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June 08, 2011, 08:28:22 PM
 #44


The beauty of open source is that you don't have to trust me, or Gavin, or Satoshi, or anyone.  The code is there, and anyone is free to make their own client with their own rules.  Any backdoors or similarly malicious code would be spotted instantly.  The SHA-1 commit ids in git make sure of that.  git provides a hash chain, just like bitcoin's block chain.

Clients can and do upgrade slowly -- we support ancient bitcoin clients released in the early days of bitcoin, also.

marcus_of_augustus
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June 08, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
 #45

What does Satoshi think about regulation?

US govt. definitely has the ability to trace every bitcoin transaction already, that is what Garzik was saying. Linking btc addresses to IP's and names is not difficult with the internet traffic analysis tools they have. Eventually, they could even adopt bitcoin and MAKE everyone use. Sure it screws the bankers, but then the power shifts completely to the spooks, the watchers, those who like to be hidden but to know everybody else's secrets.

Satoshi = Uncle Sam?

What does Hal Finney think?

It is not the back doors that are the worry, it is the public record at the core and that will never be changed. It is flawed as a monetary technology.

xf2_org
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June 08, 2011, 09:03:07 PM
 #46

US govt. definitely has the ability to trace every bitcoin transaction already,

Correct (added my own emphasis).

Quote
It is not the back doors that are the worry, it is the public record at the core and that will never be changed.

Correct.

Quote
It is flawed as a monetary technology.

It is a tool, with limits.  All bitcoin has ever tried to be is a working decentralized currency.  It is up to you to add your own layers of strong anonymity on top of bitcoin.

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June 08, 2011, 09:04:58 PM
 #47

I'm as libertarian as the next guy, and I don't think JG implied all that some of you think he did. There were two main points he made (if I remember correctly):

1) All bitcoin transactions are public and will always be, far from a scheme designed for untraceable money laundering.
2) Bitcoin exchanges should be legal Money Service Businesses.

Regarding #1: [stuff deleted; mother_of_another covered it before I could post]

Regarding #2: you shouldn't have to be an outlaw and an enemy of the state to be a bitcoin user. Some of us want to continue living lawfully in society, however flawed it may be. If you want Bitcoin to gain wide acceptance, you can't make being an outlaw the price of admission because it will drive almost everyone away. So of course currency<->BTC exchanges will have to be statute-abiding, legal enterprises. As was well pointed out earlier, this only has any effect to the extent bitcoin is exchanged for legal tender. If what you envision ultimately is an all-bitcoin world, then exchanges will tend to have less and less significance. Of course "They" can't imagine such a world, smug in their knowledge that dollars et al are real money. They're hardly Austrian-school economists, and don't understand what happens When Money Dies, or that such a thing could happen to here. In the meantime we need to keep bitcoin alive so it's there to pick up the pieces of the wreckage of the failed monetary system. To do otherwise is just painting a big target on bitcoin's forehead.

I thought JG did a good job of exploding the smears and FUD that the hostiles are trying to whip up.

MacFall
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June 08, 2011, 09:13:40 PM
 #48

The state doesn't have to legally recognize and regulate bitcoin in order to keep it in the province of "law-abiding citizens". All it has to do is not make it illegal. Only in totalitarian societies are activities considered to be forbidden until the state decides otherwise. And regulating it will have the same effect as outlawing it in the long run, as regulation is nothing more than a slow constriction of the ability of people to act while remaining within the law. The only difference is that more people will be fooled along the way.

No king but Christ; no law but Liberty!

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em3rgentOrdr
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June 08, 2011, 09:20:18 PM
 #49

Gubbamint can't regulate open source projects.

Quick, the owners of mtgox and other BTC exchanges, please open source your server code!

Also, what about regular people like myself who have never used mtgox and never have exchanced a single bitcoin for USD?  How are you going to regulate me?

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
JohnDoe
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June 08, 2011, 10:00:26 PM
 #50

Linking btc addresses to IP's and names is not difficult with the internet traffic analysis tools they have.

How can they do this?
zer0
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June 08, 2011, 10:28:13 PM
 #51

I still think it's suicide for anybody to consider exchanging bitcoin in the US, or Liberty Reserve, Pecunix ect.
Russia doesn't give a fuck. They have fleets of LR exchangers that will cash you out $50k at a time without asking for ID. Same with Vietnam

Doesn't really matter like that other guy said, since names can't really be tied to transactions, and since there is no central authority you can split up your gagillions in bitcoins into multiple exchangers and cash out under the radar an epic amount legally
swusc2
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June 08, 2011, 10:46:30 PM
 #52

A lot of what people are saying in this topic is just ridiculous. I'm sure Bitcoin is dominated by Techies and Libertarians and that's all well and good. But what some people are posting is straight regressive towards the future of Bitcoin.

Simply put:
Early on start ups shouldn't and especially the people who dominate this forum shouldn't intentionally antagonize governments. Competition doesn't exist until you are competitive. Co-existence is best for now and if BitCoin ever gets comparable enough then people can decide how to iron out the issues. If you push away potential partners for growth you end up stuck defending your asses from retarded politicians Senator Schumer with no voice and no one to back you up.

Impress your friends! Buy a bitcoin keychain!
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=30799.0
Jaime Frontero
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June 08, 2011, 10:57:40 PM
 #53

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

precisely.  this whole thread is BS.

garzik didn't have anything to say about regulating Bitcoin - only that the public, bank-tied exchanges adhere to the regulatory confines of the countries they exist in.

and he's absolutely correct.

what does that have to do with Bitcoin?  are the Linden people, or the WoW people yelling about this?  i doubt it.

none of what garzik said has anything to do with the anti-regulatory possibilities of Bitcoin - by itself - that we all love.  not anything at all.
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June 08, 2011, 11:01:01 PM
 #54

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

precisely.  this whole thread is BS.

garzik didn't have anything to say about regulating Bitcoin - only that the public, bank-tied exchanges adhere to the regulatory confines of the countries they exist in.

and he's absolutely correct.

what does that have to do with Bitcoin?  are the Linden people, or the WoW people yelling about this?  i doubt it.

none of what garzik said has anything to do with the anti-regulatory possibilities of Bitcoin - by itself - that we all love.  not anything at all.

+1

Impress your friends! Buy a bitcoin keychain!
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=30799.0
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June 09, 2011, 12:59:01 AM
 #55

I already sent an email to garzik, but does anyone know more details about how Bitcoins will be regulated?  Is it for sure that bitcoin exchangers will be considered msb's?  Please post any developments along these lines, thanks.
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June 09, 2011, 01:37:31 AM
 #56

The idea of working with government on regulating Bitcoins repulses me. The fact that government is contacting main developers is worrying. Bitcoin exchanges work very well without government sticky hands involved. After what Garzik said, I consider him the enemy of free market and the whole idea of cryptocurrency. Now I will definitely look more careful at what changes in the client are made with each update.

My Bitcoin address: 1DjTsAYP3xR4ymcTUKNuFa5aHt42q2VgSg
MacFall
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June 09, 2011, 01:42:41 AM
 #57

Now I will definitely look more careful at what changes in the client are made with each update.

Make sure to let tech retards like me know what you find.

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June 09, 2011, 01:43:20 AM
 #58

The idea of working with government on regulating Bitcoins repulses me. The fact that government is contacting main developers is worrying. Bitcoin exchanges work very well without government sticky hands involved. After what Garzik said, I consider him the enemy of free market and the whole idea of cryptocurrency. Now I will definitely look more careful at what changes in the client are made with each update.

Agreed. Garzik didn't make friends here when he criticized "ron paul libertarians" (which I thought was kind of strange), when he characterized users of silk road as stupid, and that he needs to help the long arm of government reach bitcoin. He came off as a righteous toadie for the State.
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June 09, 2011, 01:59:30 AM
 #59

The idea of working with government on regulating Bitcoins repulses me. The fact that government is contacting main developers is worrying. Bitcoin exchanges work very well without government sticky hands involved. After what Garzik said, I consider him the enemy of free market and the whole idea of cryptocurrency. Now I will definitely look more careful at what changes in the client are made with each update.

Agreed. Garzik didn't make friends here when he criticized "ron paul libertarians" (which I thought was kind of strange), when he characterized users of silk road as stupid, and that he needs to help the long arm of government reach bitcoin. He came off as a righteous toadie for the State.

Who is this Garzik person.  I nevaheordofem.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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June 09, 2011, 02:04:11 AM
 #60

Time to create a anarcho-bitcoin that doesnt touch government money or need to be regulated.

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