Garzik encourages regulation

[Black Arrow]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html?tag=strip

At about seven minutes into this interview, Jeff Garzik makes the following statement:

We’re working with the government to register bitcoin exchanges as MSBs (Money Service Businesses) to make sure that the long arm of the government can indeed reach bitcoin. A lot of bitcoiners are diehard Ron Paul libertarians, who might not necessarily agree with me but the only way bitcoins are going to be successful is working with regulation and with the government. And that’s what we’ve been doing specifically with the bitcoin exchanges, that’s where you exchange your US dollars or Euros to Bitcoins and back again, is that all of these are fully regulated with the government, fully complying with all the anti-money laundering and know-your-client laws.


Earlier in the interview he dismisses organizations like Silk Road as being “pretty bleeping dumb”.

One of the things that attracted me to Bitcoin in the first place was its potential for circumventing all of these oppressive and totalitarian laws. It was a real pleasure registering with Mt Gox as compared to opening a new brokerage account. As is usually the case, when a new industry takes hold and is threatened by government, they partner with government in a well-known phenomenon known as regulatory capture [think pharmaceuticals]. They raise costs and conspire to legislate advantages for themselves to keep out upstart competitors. So it seems likely to me that regulation of the bitcoin exchanges will take place. While I’m disappointed that one of the most prominent bitcoiners has this pro-regulation attitude, there are still a number of other advantages to bitcoin, even if the exchanges become regulated. I have two questions:

1) Will cooperating with government make bitcoins go up in value because it may result in their adoption by the mainstream, or will it make bitcoins less valuable because it diminishes financial privacy which is a very important motivation for a lot of people.

2) Assuming that companies like Mt Gox become registered MSBs, what are the prospects for outlaw exchanges and a successful black market in bitcoins where you don’t have to present your papers in order to transact business?

[wuweudhw]

The cool thing about bitcoin is it doesn't matter if exchangers follow know your customer rules, you can cash in with your real ID and then mix your bitcoins to get unlinkability of your coins and your real ID. Then you have anonymized bitcoins and it doesn't matter that you needed to show ID to get them. Let them follow know your customer it makes no difference at all to the anonymity of the system if mixes are also used.

[unemployed]

So let's sum up. Garzik is paid by the US government, Gavin Andresen is on CIA's paycheck. And they are two people that effectively have control over the Bitcoin network, because they develop the client used by majority of Bitcoin users. They can add to the client whatever they want, and clueless users will update to the newest versions. They can add to the client, let's say, blocking certain Bitcoin Exchange websites, and no one can stop them.
To secure the Bitcoin network, users should push to have a more decentralized development of client software.

[benjamindees]

Time for a code review.

[Garrett Burgwardt]

So let's sum up. Garzik is paid by the US government, Gavin Andresen is on CIA's paycheck. And they are two people that effectively have control over the Bitcoin network, because they develop the client used by majority of Bitcoin users. They can add to the client whatever they want, and clueless users will update to the newest versions. They can add to the client, let's say, blocking certain Bitcoin Exchange websites, and no one can stop them.
To secure the Bitcoin network, users should push to have a more decentralized development of client software.

You clearly don't know how bitcoin works if you think they can block exchanges.

[TraderTimm]

You all realize that exchanges become obsolete once enough merchants switch over, right? They are just a step on this long journey to replace abused and flawed currency systems world-wide.

You'll see.

[Dhomochevsky]

So let's sum up. Garzik is paid by the US government, Gavin Andresen is on CIA's paycheck. And they are two people that effectively have control over the Bitcoin network, because they develop the client used by majority of Bitcoin users. They can add to the client whatever they want, and clueless users will update to the newest versions. They can add to the client, let's say, blocking certain Bitcoin Exchange websites, and no one can stop them.
To secure the Bitcoin network, users should push to have a more decentralized development of client software.

[evoorhees]

I'll posit an alternative theory. Some of the most visible Bitcoin devs will endeavor to appear as pro-gov, and make friends where friends need be made. This takes pressure of the anti-Bitcoin regulators, and gives Bitcoin time to become ever-more established, and hopefully unstopable.

If I were Gavin, or Garzik, I would shake hands with government officials and assure them that they had nothing to worry about. I would emphasize things that a Gov. official would like, and de-emphasize things which are libertarian, free-market, and anonymity related.

Put simply, I would publicly distance myself and Bitcoin from services like Silk Road, privately knowing that by so doing I'm making both Bitcoin and Silk Road more viable.

Going on a tv news interview and standing up for liberty and the right of individuals to purchase what they so please so long as they're not harming others... well, it may be the valid position morally, but it will not engender a favorable reaction from that hideous government which we are so eager to cast off, nor from the public opinion mobs to which we are unfortunately subjected.

[J180]

In my view the eventual consequences of bitcoin (or it's replacement) are not possible to stop in the long term without drastic supression methods (literally monitoring everyone's PC). So any attempt at regulation might actually be a good thing, just so people (including governments) accept it in the short term.

While I was typing this, evoorhees summed that up even better.

[qikaifu]

I can not agree with regulation idea more.

[lonestranger]

Going on a tv news interview and standing up for liberty and the right of individuals to purchase what they so please so long as they're not harming others... well, it may be the valid position morally, but it will not engender a favorable reaction from that hideous government which we are so eager to cast off, nor from the public opinion mobs to which we are unfortunately subjected.

Are you saying that Garzik is slick enough to have said what he said but have a different agenda in reality? That would be impressive if true. I actually think he believes what he said and is apparently naive to the sheer evil epicness of the power centers run by dynastic, multi-generational banking elites.  Some of the comments Gavin made make me think the same of him.  I remain very wary of these so-called "leaders".

I would hope that when they sell out their own customers some enterprising and more realistic and better-informed developers create anonymous ways to exchange bitcoin.

[evoorhees]

Going on a tv news interview and standing up for liberty and the right of individuals to purchase what they so please so long as they're not harming others... well, it may be the valid position morally, but it will not engender a favorable reaction from that hideous government which we are so eager to cast off, nor from the public opinion mobs to which we are unfortunately subjected.

Are you saying that Garzik is slick enough to have said what he said but have a different agenda in reality?

Well I have no idea. But I'm not sure it matters. Bitcoin, after all, is allegedly not subject to the agenda of anyone.

[dissipate]

Don't worry people, the official Bitcoin client will be obsolete soon enough, just like with BitTorrent. Gavin and Garzik are figure heads. If they came out with an official client that enabled government regulation, everyone would just switch to a 3rd party client that didn't have it. So party on!

[xf2_org]

Garzik is paid by the US government,

No, that is decidedly not true.  I'm guessing you did not watch the video at all.

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

[Anonymous]

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

[da2ce7]

Oh! 

[rezin777]

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

[Anonymous]

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

It doesn't matter. It's people trading their property at their leisure. Nobody is entitled to a single drop of it. To regulate it in the name of safety, is to claim people do not know what is best for themselves. Bitcoin is supposed to only further rectify man's own right to his own life and its fruits.

God damn every parasite out there who claims Bitcoin in any of its forms should be subject to regulation! Subject to the thieving regimes: even a single drop of the Bitcoin economy! Bitcoin will destroy these structures all in good time and there is nothing you can do about it! All you do is hinder our revolution and its scope when you ask for the state's approval of how we use our property and labor! I hope all of you apologists suffer when the time comes!

The state along with your brown-nosing attitude will be buried! Long-live a new tomorrow!

[cypherdoc]

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

well, they certainly enable price discovery which encourages more participation, more price discovery, which strengthens the network, etc.  their importance shouldn't be minimized either.

[cypherdoc]

The regulations mentioned were clearly related to bitcoin exchanges.

I think some people are under the impression that Bitcoin exchanges equal Bitcoin network.

It doesn't matter. It's people trading their property at their leisure. Nobody is entitled to a single drop of it. To regulate it in the name of safety, is to claim people do not know what is best for themselves. Bitcoin is supposed to only further rectify man's own right to his own life and its fruits.

God damn every parasite out there who claims Bitcoin in any of its forms should be subject to regulation! Subject to the thieving regimes: even a single drop of the Bitcoin economy! Bitcoin will destroy these structures all in good time and there is nothing you can do about it! All you do is hinder our revolution and its scope when you ask for the state's approval of how we use our property and labor! I hope all of you apologists suffer when the time comes!

The state along with your brown-nosing attitude will be buried! Long-live a new tomorrow!

Atlas makes a good point.  just what is there to regulate?