What is the best escrow strategy?

[fairgold]

Hello everyone,

I am a newbie, and I would like to sell some high value items using bitcoin. I am generally interested in knowing about various strategies that would build trust / eliminate the possibility of scams for both parties of the transaction.

The obvious one is to use an escrow services. Is there an escrow service where the items are shipped to the escrow holder for inspection and then sent to the buyer? I guess this would be the only way to ensure that the buyer does not replace an original item with a fake one and then return it.

I also read about multi-signature escrow services (https://blockchain.info/wallet/escrow). Does anyone have experience with that? 

Thanks!

[21after2]

I've never heard of an escrow that inspects the items. I would imagine most people wouldn't trust the escrow not to run off with both the money and the items; in particular, the buyer may not want someone else to have the chance to steal his purchased items.

I would recommend taking pictures of all the items in the box before you ship them out for added proof of what you've sent. You might be able to insure your shipment with the shipping company for a cheap enough price to help in case the buyer tries to scam you. You could disclose that your shipping cost will include insurance on the package if it really worries you. I recently got free insurance on a package I sent through USPS, but it was an international shipment so it may have been included in the international price.

Signature confirmation might help add some peace of mind that everything arrived as you sent it when it was delivered. I would also take pictures of shipping labels and receipts that confirm the worth of the items being shipped and their weight to help prove you sent what you said you would. I would basically aim to have as much information and proof needed to provide to the escrow that you held up your end of the bargain as possible. If you send out what you're supposed to and the buyer tries to scam you out of the money, you can provide all these things to the escrow to help him judge who he should release the payment to.

[fairgold]

Thanks for your help. Yes, Insurance is the way to manage the risk of package getting lost during shipment. But what if the buyer receives the items, claims that they are fake (although they are not), escrow holder will not pay the seller and orders the return of items to seller, buyer replaces items with fake ones and ships back, receives his/her money from escrow and keeps orig. items. It is an unlikely scenario, but it could be a problem. It could only be solved if seller could prove that he/she has shipped the original items.

In case of an inspection escrow, using a signature based escrow would eliminate the risk of escrow holder running away with both money and items because he/she will never see the money, only items.

[John (John K.)]

You'll be hard pressed to find such an escrow as he'll need to repackage everything and resend it again, not to mention the time and costs involved for someone willing to undergo such a tedious job. The best way would be to let the money sit at the escrow's hand and:

a) Video the packing process
b) Declare the contents to the postoffice/courier, and allow them to inspect if possble
c) Insure the items involved

If I may ask, what's the item involved? Generally bullion and tangibles like art should be sent via special couriers, which eliminates such fraud risks.

[Kluge]

Thanks for your help. Yes, Insurance is the way to manage the risk of package getting lost during shipment. But what if the buyer receives the items, claims that they are fake (although they are not), escrow holder will not pay the seller and orders the return of items to seller, buyer replaces items with fake ones and ships back, receives his/her money from escrow and keeps orig. items. It is an unlikely scenario, but it could be a problem. It could only be solved if seller could prove that he/she has shipped the original items.

In case of an inspection escrow, using a signature based escrow would eliminate the risk of escrow holder running away with both money and items because he/she will never see the money, only items.

I've offered "man in the middle" service on a few occasions for people doing high-value transactions. Nobody's taken me up on it due to the extra shipping expenses and probably trust issues involved.

Buyers and sellers are both encouraged to film boxing and unboxing if worried. Package weight by shipping company can help in some cases, but not for light items, or in cases where it's claimed a certain metal was purchased, but the buyer received a similarly-dense metal. (tungsten instead of gold, for example)

[fairgold]

Thanks for the tips. The items are gold coins and bullion. Filming the packaging process is a good idea, including weighing the items on a high precision balance.

Maybe with the advent of multi signature transactions the trust issues involved in "man in the middle" escrow will be somewhat alleviated. Kluge, if you are still offering escrow services, would you please send me more details? found the link!

[Kluge]

Thanks for the tips. The items are gold coins and bullion. Filming the packaging process is a good idea, including weighing the items on a high precision balance.

Maybe with the advent of multi signature transactions the trust issues involved in "man in the middle" escrow will be somewhat alleviated. Kruge, if you are still offering escrow services, would you please send me more details?

Link to thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120218

[fairgold]

Thanks for the tips. The items are gold coins and bullion. Filming the packaging process is a good idea, including weighing the items on a high precision balance.

Maybe with the advent of multi signature transactions the trust issues involved in "man in the middle" escrow will be somewhat alleviated. Kruge, if you are still offering escrow services, would you please send me more details?

Link to thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120218

Thanks Kluge, will definitely use your services in the near future.

[kokojie]

I believe the best strategy is once escrowed, the buyer isn't getting the money back under any circumstances, and the buyer need to approve release to release money to the seller.
Disputed money gets donated to charity.

This type of escrow works, because:
1. the buyer will never see his money back, so there absolutely no incentive for the buyer to scam the seller, especially since the seller knows the buyer's name and address.
2. the seller will not receive the money if he try to scam the buyer, so there's absolutely no incentive for the seller either.

Almost everything that goes bad in a transaction is due to a motive, if you remove the motive, then every transaction should go smoothly.

The only tiny problem with this model, is that a troll seller can promise to sell something that he doesn't have, and get people to lose money (though the seller doesn't have anything to gain except just to troll people, this should happen only rarely). This can easily be prevented by having some type of reputation system in place, it maybe forum post count or a real feedback rating system.

[SgtSpike]

I honestly don't see the point in videoing the packing process.  What's to keep someone from just repackaging an equivalent weight of bricks in the same box?  Likewise with unboxing... what's to keep the receiver from repackaging with bricks, then "opening" it on video?  Videos of those processes are pointless, and only attract suspicion (a guilty party would be more likely to video the packing process as "proof" that they shipped what they said they shipped.

I agree with koko - destroying the incentive for cheating the system is the best way to go about it.  Even with charities though, unscrupulous sellers may create fake listings for the sole purpose of forcing victims to donate to a charity (or likewise, buyers claim receipt of bricks).  It's almost like it has to be a charity that no one wants money to go to, or something... but no such thing exists.  What about 1BitcoinEater? 

Certainly, having money go to charity reduces the incentive to cheat much more than refunding to either party, but it's still not a perfect option.

I'd almost say that a community-driven escrow would be the best option.  In the event of a dispute that isn't easily solved, or is appealed by one party, a forum post is made here where people can give their input on what they believe the true story is.  General trustworthiness of the persons in question among the community as a whole can also be taken into account.  After a few days of discovery, a poll is opened, whereupon users can vote for whichever side they believe is being truthful.  The decision is final at that point, unless either individual wishes to take it beyond simple forum mediation to a courtroom.

It wouldn't be perfect either, but at least victims would be less likely to lose money (either to charity or to the other party), and the vast majority of disputes would likely be resolved fairly.

[FreedomCoin]

I found this thread by during a search regarding escrow, i am getting ready to sell some high level network equipment along with other basic hardware. I would like to be protected and at the same time appear to be trustworthy. Are there certain people on bitcoin talk willing to work as a community escrow? Would they expect a small fee?

Are there any online wallet sites that act as an automated escrow? I hear people talking about which types of escrows are out there but i do not see any sources or contacts to get started.

I see blockchain offers a multi signature escrow, i guess that would be one type.

[TheButterZone]

btcrow.com
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141672.0