16nm miners

[BitcoinSupremo]

I have been reading all over this forum about these 16nm miners, so when are they coming out and any cloud mining website intends to add them to mine for real. For cloud mining I only count transparent providers that are not in a good condition right now.

These 16 nm miners , what is their initial profit considering an increase of 20% of the difficulty of Bitcoin Normal price electricity in Europe mainly.

[VirosaGITS]

I have been reading all over this forum about these 16nm miners, so when are they coming out and any cloud mining website intends to add them to mine for real. For cloud mining I only count transparent providers that are not in a good condition right now.

These 16 nm miners , what is their initial profit considering an increase of 20% of the difficulty of Bitcoin Normal price electricity in Europe mainly.

You can't calculate profit out of nothing like that. It depend on your electricity cost. For the Bitfury one, we're looking at 0.1J/GH, do the math. But the unit price will probably be much more expensive than the S7 for example.

But anyways they're pretty much already out, it may simply be because they did not make a public miners to sell home users for now.

You can look into Bitfury and SP50's.

[notlist3d]

I have been reading all over this forum about these 16nm miners, so when are they coming out and any cloud mining website intends to add them to mine for real. For cloud mining I only count transparent providers that are not in a good condition right now.

These 16 nm miners , what is their initial profit considering an increase of 20% of the difficulty of Bitcoin Normal price electricity in Europe mainly.

You can't calculate profit out of nothing like that. It depend on your electricity cost. For the Bitfury one, we're looking at 0.1J/GH, do the math. But the unit price will probably be much more expensive than the S7 for example.

But anyways they're pretty much already out, it may simply be because they did not make a public miners to sell home users for now.

You can look into Bitfury and SP50's.

The hard part is those two chances are no info is out there yet on sales.  All NDA on Bitfury so likely unless you have large amount you will not be dealing with them.   It's hard to tell it hopefully will change sometime and we will know more, I'm not one of them but the people who know on Bitfury I have a feeling all are under NDA.

And on SP50 they were really beat by Bitfury before even released.   We have not seen more then rendering on SP50, so we have no idea if they even have one.  Or if they will stop R/D as beat by Bitfury.  They really need to already get a new chip before it as released.

And OP in Europe the vat and electricity kills most miners there.  So be careful on buying do lot's of ROI math once we see more info on these miners.

[Amph]

if we considering a 100% efficiency, double of the s7, like it was from s5 to s7, then your ass is covered up to 400B diff at least, with the same profit as now for the s7

[QuintLeo]

I have been reading all over this forum about these 16nm miners, so when are they coming out and any cloud mining website intends to add them to mine for real.

 It would appear, based on their recent hashrate jumps, that BW.com has their B-Eleven in production, for internal use on their cloudmining contracts so far not for sale.

 Bitfury has demoed a chip, but no miners around yet that the public has access to. It's possible some of their "partners" or mega-buyers like MegaBigPower have started initial deployment of that gen of Bitfury gear, but they're very quiet about it if that is the case.

 No hard word on when or how much out of Innosilicon yet. There's still a lingering question as to "is BW.com/LKETC using their own chip design, or are they using the A3 given the longtime LKETC usage of the A1 chip in their miners" that hasn't been firmly answered yet.

 Bitmain - probably hasn't hit tapeout on that generation yet, but they tend to be sorta quiet most of the time 'till they're very close to deployment. Definitely not REAL soon given that they're still pushing new S7s pretty hard.

 KnC - I seriously doubt their claims, they have announced they have their Solar chip in production but no significant move in their hashrate since that announcement.

 Spondoolies - SP50 announcement was nice, but their financials are looking seriously like "bankrupt and dead in 2016" at this point.

[kingofbitcoin]

Well I don't know but I am in Europe too and electricity is very expensive here even in Eastern Europe countries like mine.
Mining is going nowhere at the moment, so I like everyone else replied am waiting for these newer chips, hopefully legit cloud mining like Eobot will incorporate them.

[MarkAz]

Awesome summary of the chip situation QuintLeo! 

Added to your list should be 21.co.  They claim 0.16J/GH and 50GH/s per chip, but they don't say the die size but it's probably in the 16nm range as well, or it's a really optimized 28nm, but that seems relatively unlikely.  They say they're licensing it, but I don't know of anyone who is actively announced making a device with it.

I haven't heard anything about Avalon, especially since they just released their latest chip a few months ago, but I imagine they've got to be working on one as well...

[mwizard]

 KnC - I seriously doubt their claims, they have announced they have their Solar chip in production but no significant move in their hashrate since that announcement.

KNC went from about 17 Petahash to 35 Petahash around September last year. This is about when they said the Solar chip was being rolled out.  But as you say no increase since then.  KNC have said they will be rolling out another 10/20 Megawatt Data Centre in in next few weeks (February/March).

[Xember]

Well I don't know but I am in Europe too and electricity is very expensive here even in Eastern Europe countries like mine.
Mining is going nowhere at the moment, so I like everyone else replied am waiting for these newer chips, hopefully legit cloud mining like Eobot will incorporate them.

If your electricity price is high, you will not ROI even on the 16 nm miners unless you get the first batch and before the difficulty jump.

[VirosaGITS]

Well I don't know but I am in Europe too and electricity is very expensive here even in Eastern Europe countries like mine.
Mining is going nowhere at the moment, so I like everyone else replied am waiting for these newer chips, hopefully legit cloud mining like Eobot will incorporate them.

If your electricity price is high, you will not ROI even on the 16 nm miners unless you get the first batch and before the difficulty jump.

Those batches tend to be really expensive and the time between which you pay and receive the thing usually fuck you over. Its not necessarily the case, but look at people who paid 2k per S7. Ouch. The S7 value pretty much raised at the same rate otherwise earned in BTC, meaning whoever paid for electricity on them lost money.

The problem is, the nice new things goes to big centers first. By the time we little ones get some, they're already being rolled out on an industrial scale for a while, which mean we don't really get in the "easy time" before the diff rise.

[notlist3d]

Well I don't know but I am in Europe too and electricity is very expensive here even in Eastern Europe countries like mine.
Mining is going nowhere at the moment, so I like everyone else replied am waiting for these newer chips, hopefully legit cloud mining like Eobot will incorporate them.

If your electricity price is high, you will not ROI even on the 16 nm miners unless you get the first batch and before the difficulty jump.

Those batches tend to be really expensive and the time between which you pay and receive the thing usually fuck you over. Its not necessarily the case, but look at people who paid 2k per S7. Ouch. The S7 value pretty much raised at the same rate otherwise earned in BTC, meaning whoever paid for electricity on them lost money.

The problem is, the nice new things goes to big centers first. By the time we little ones get some, they're already being rolled out on an industrial scale for a while, which mean we don't really get in the "easy time" before the diff rise.

One thing is we are in a unique time with having coming up.  So getting in first batch could be a huge advantage.  It's hard to say without knowing price and when talking about 16 NM we won't know price with all the NDA's chances are for a while.

Having is huge though as far as miners considering they earn 1/2 as much after having so there is a premium most would pay to get quick before having.  How much premium? That is a good question.

[QuintLeo]

Awesome summary of the chip situation QuintLeo! 

Added to your list should be 21.co.  They claim 0.16J/GH and 50GH/s per chip, but they don't say the die size but it's probably in the 16nm range as well, or it's a really optimized 28nm, but that seems relatively unlikely.  They say they're licensing it, but I don't know of anyone who is actively announced making a device with it.

I haven't heard anything about Avalon, especially since they just released their latest chip a few months ago, but I imagine they've got to be working on one as well...

 21.com has not indicated any interest in actually releasing any MINING gear, just that pathetic joke massively overpriced Bitcoin Computer thing.
 They're also not 14/16nm, they're 28nm full custom, and nothing announced at ALL about any plans to go to 14/16nm, so they have ZERO place on my list at this point.

 Avalon announced, I believe in their initial announcement of the Avalon 6, that they had no plans to do anything with 14/16nm for the forseeable future as they considered the technology too immature (or something like that). They might be rethinking that position but haven't said anything about it if they are. Therefore they have ZERO place on my list at this time.


 Also, in one of the other threads, BitFury has stated "no deployment yet but SOON" on their new 16nm chip. I still suspect some of their "partners" already have full data on it and are working on designs that will be deployed before any miners become available to the public, but if Putkin's (sp?) most recent post in the main Bitfury 16nm thread is to be believed, that gap might be a fairly small one.

[mwizard]

Awesome summary of the chip situation QuintLeo! 

Added to your list should be 21.co.  They claim 0.16J/GH and 50GH/s per chip, but they don't say the die size but it's probably in the 16nm range as well, or it's a really optimized 28nm, but that seems relatively unlikely.  They say they're licensing it, but I don't know of anyone who is actively announced making a device with it.

I haven't heard anything about Avalon, especially since they just released their latest chip a few months ago, but I imagine they've got to be working on one as well...

 21.com has not indicated any interest in actually releasing any MINING gear, just that pathetic joke massively overpriced Bitcoin Computer thing.
 They're also not 14/16nm, they're 28nm full custom, and nothing announced at ALL about any plans to go to 14/16nm, so they have ZERO place on my list at this point.

Agree. The 21Inc pool is the only pool to show no hashing rate increase in the last 6 months.  It has sat at around 16-18 Petahash.  This means it has fallen from about 4% of the network hashing to under 2%. All other pools have increased by a substantial amount.

https://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/hashrate/6m?c=m&r=month&t=l

[sobe-it]

I have been reading all over this forum about these 16nm miners, so when are they coming out and any cloud mining website intends to add them to mine for real.

 It would appear, based on their recent hashrate jumps, that BW.com has their B-Eleven in production, for internal use on their cloudmining contracts so far not for sale.

 Bitfury has demoed a chip, but no miners around yet that the public has access to. It's possible some of their "partners" or mega-buyers like MegaBigPower have started initial deployment of that gen of Bitfury gear, but they're very quiet about it if that is the case.

 No hard word on when or how much out of Innosilicon yet. There's still a lingering question as to "is BW.com/LKETC using their own chip design, or are they using the A3 given the longtime LKETC usage of the A1 chip in their miners" that hasn't been firmly answered yet.

 Bitmain - probably hasn't hit tapeout on that generation yet, but they tend to be sorta quiet most of the time 'till they're very close to deployment. Definitely not REAL soon given that they're still pushing new S7s pretty hard.

 KnC - I seriously doubt their claims, they have announced they have their Solar chip in production but no significant move in their hashrate since that announcement.

 Spondoolies - SP50 announcement was nice, but their financials are looking seriously like "bankrupt and dead in 2016" at this point.

Well this makes older zeus and gridseed units obsolete.

What happened to A3?  

Good question! A3 is actually gonna be a replacement of A1, and will be rolled out at the same time with A4. So A3 and A4 share the same roll out time, and A3 will have sub 0.2w/gh btc mining performance.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1251930.0