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Author Topic: Do Bitcoins have Tax??  (Read 39909 times)
care2yak
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January 01, 2017, 03:30:30 AM
 #761

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??

I am not a CPA, so this is a non-professional opinion.  You should act on advice from a tax professional.

I am an advocate/activist for small government.  Although not an anarchocapitalist, i am sympathetic to the anarchocapitalist perspective, and have many acquaintances who describe themselves as such.

That said, bitcoin transactions are definitely taxable in the US.

Based on Federal court rulings, BTC does not qualify as "money", but rather as an item of value.

It does not qualify as a "currency" in the way that most Americans trade FX (Secs. 1256 or 988 contracts or straddles), at least not yet.  But there will probably be BTC futures trading on the CME by the end of Q1 2017.

Holding BTC and then making a transaction triggers a capital gain.  To be conservative, you should use first-in-first-out (FIFO) accounting.

It may not seem right or fair, but the tax liability exists whether or not you pay it. 

I would prefer to pay taxes as the liability accrues rather than having to pay fines later, or be accused of willful evasion of taxes.

   



so you're saying that bitcoin is a commodity much like gold, oil, and copper... i've always thought of bitcoin as a currency and so i've voiced opinions that taxes should not be imposed on it but on services and goods that accepted it as payment. your perspective though has helped me gain more insight about bitcoin. i have much to learn.
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January 01, 2017, 03:44:35 AM
 #762

Depends on the country you are living in. Many countries impose conversion as well as income taxes on Bitcoin. Which is not good actually coz the more governments interfere in Bitcoins, the less popularity Bitcoin will have. Undecided

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January 01, 2017, 11:32:43 AM
 #763

Depends on the country you are living in. Many countries impose conversion as well as income taxes on Bitcoin. Which is not good actually coz the more governments interfere in Bitcoins, the less popularity Bitcoin will have. Undecided
I think of the opposite side, once the government interfere that means it has risen to the level of big popularity and they must regulate it as it has already threaten the them.

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January 01, 2017, 12:01:47 PM
 #764

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.

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January 01, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
 #765

I guess this needs to be stated every page.  Roll Eyes
In the U.S. You absolutely owe capitol gains tax on any rise in price. No question at all about it.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/ten-important-facts-about-capital-gains-and-losses

And to clarify, the mining fee is payment for service and not a tax. Taxes are levied by governments. Bitcoin is not a government.

It's embarrassing to see how many people understand nothing about taxes. How do they survive in society not understanding their taxation responsibilities and why are more of them not in prison?
I don't get it either? Maybe economics should be mandatory in high school rather than active shooter or diversity training? Those things are fine, but it feels like we are turning out people who are just not equipped to successfully navigate the economy. They participate in financial instruments they don't understand from predatory lending to the retirement schemes. They pay taxes into a pool that is often squandered on waste and fraud. I don't blame them. They are coming into a system that, at least here in the U.S., has become a gamified Rube Goldberg machine. 

Instead of hearing about all this in school, children are still taught under the assumption that sitting in rows leads to a factory job, a house,  then a pensioned retirement after 20 years. Yet the economy is nothing like that anymore.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
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January 01, 2017, 07:24:24 PM
 #766

I guess this needs to be stated every page.  Roll Eyes
In the U.S. You absolutely owe capitol gains tax on any rise in price. No question at all about it.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/ten-important-facts-about-capital-gains-and-losses

And to clarify, the mining fee is payment for service and not a tax. Taxes are levied by governments. Bitcoin is not a government.

It's embarrassing to see how many people understand nothing about taxes. How do they survive in society not understanding their taxation responsibilities and why are more of them not in prison?
I don't get it either? Maybe economics should be mandatory in high school rather than active shooter or diversity training? Those things are fine, but it feels like we are turning out people who are just not equipped to successfully navigate the economy. They participate in financial instruments they don't understand from predatory lending to the retirement schemes. They pay taxes into a pool that is often squandered on waste and fraud. I don't blame them. They are coming into a system that, at least here in the U.S., has become a gamified Rube Goldberg machine. 

Instead of hearing about all this in school, children are still taught under the assumption that sitting in rows leads to a factory job, a house,  then a pensioned retirement after 20 years. Yet the economy is nothing like that anymore.

It's sad. The public school system has destroyed society in America. Most young people can't even use the K-12 system to get into an institution of higher learning anymore. Most public universities have remedial "catch up" classes offered that allow the brain dead idiots released from high school to, at least, become semi capable of success. State and federal government history (tainted by government propagandists) is mandatory. K-12 serves no purpose other than programming little state drones. It sure as hell isn't preparing children to become functional members of society.

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California
The state requires the daily performance of "patriotic exercises" in all public schools; the statute states explicitly that reciting the Pledge fulfills this requirement. For primary schools, these exercises are to take place at the beginning of the first class period at which a majority of students begin the school day. For secondary schools, the "governing body of the district maintaining the secondary school" decides the time and manner in which the patriotic exercises are to be conducted. Although California requires "patriotic exercises," there is no facial requirement that students take part in them. Educ. §52720 (2005).

Kansas
The state requires a daily recitation of the Pledge in public schools. Kan. Stat. Ann. §72-5300(1) (2005). No provision is made for students who do not wish to recite the Pledge.

Washington
Students in public schools who wish to recite the Pledge shall do so before all school assemblies and "immediately before interschool events, when feasible." At the beginning of each school day, and at the beginning of each school assembly, "appropriate flag exercises" shall take place in each classroom. Wash. Rev. Code Ann. § 28A.230.140 (2005).

If you have to force patriotism then there isn't any.

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January 02, 2017, 02:40:51 AM
 #767

If you have to force patriotism then there isn't any.
Amen. That should be in the bible, lol.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in AFRICA - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.msg27720734
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January 02, 2017, 06:55:11 AM
 #768

From where i am, Bitcoin is still considered as monopoly money by central bank and authorities, so there are no extra taxes on it. Personally, i would not mind to pay taxes on my earnings related to it if authorities would bit regulate market and prevent flood of scams (which hurt Bitcoin lot more than some percentage of eventual tax on it).

I do agreed on this matter, Besides bitcoin from the very start don't have any taxes even in every transactions that we wanna make in the exchange platform.




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January 02, 2017, 03:15:39 PM
 #769

Depends on the country you are living in. Many countries impose conversion as well as income taxes on Bitcoin. Which is not good actually coz the more governments interfere in Bitcoins, the less popularity Bitcoin will have. Undecided

If you start a business and you work with Bitcoin, you have to use it and pay taxes just like you would with your local currency. Otherwise everyone would begin a business that works with Bitcoin only and wouldn't spend a penny on taxes. But for normal, day-to-day use (like ours), Bitcoin is not taxed at all. There is only one fee, the one we are choosing when completing a transaction, and it's not mandatory but recommended for fast confirmation.

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January 02, 2017, 03:23:12 PM
 #770

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.

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January 02, 2017, 03:32:07 PM
 #771

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.
The government should not exist on this planet since all they can do is stealing and robbing money from citizens. They want to control everything and who disobey will be punished. Bitcoin will help us to against the centralized system. Tax will soon be vanished

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January 02, 2017, 03:39:43 PM
 #772

Tax free usage seems to be one among the major attention seeker, but when taxes were imposed sure government holds control over bitcoin. This will make it similar to other currencies, only it gets the digital form. Till date taxation is not possible with bitcoin transactions.

Governments won't ever have the ability to directly tax Bitcoin. It doesn't really matter what you are using. If you have something with value, then it simply adds up to your wealth. If it allows you to buy and sell with profits, then it is like you are making profit in general. In both cases you have to pay tax over what you hold and gained in profit. Name of the tool isn't important, the value that it holds is. Difference here is that Bitcoin simply allows people to hide a part of their wealth, where the government doesn't know who or what is holding which amount. They only know it if you declare everything in a honest manner. But who is gonna do so?

Governments can, and will find out that you have bitcoins IF you used exchanges to buy them. Look at the Coinbase incident for instance, they requested all the data to pass it to the IRS. Maybe they cannot find out what happened to the bitcoins you bought, maybe they can't find them, BUT they have a registry that said "this guy bought X bitcoins at X date". They know that, so you will be forced to give some sort of explanation if they demand it, and that is the question... what do you say? you can't just play dumb, since you willingly bought the bitcoin.
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January 02, 2017, 07:20:34 PM
 #773

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??
ya , you alright . bitcoin does not have tax ..
because bitcoin not things can see real like bussines..
On the contrary, bitcoin can be a business. There's a lot of ways on which bitcoin can be a business. One of them would be trading.
Bitcoin can't really be seen yet it does exist. Since just like the OP said "it's a internet currency".
Bitcoin doesn't really has a tax since it's just a currency. But transacting it has tax such as we call fees. Tax in bitcoin can be included too on the following:
•Cashing-In •Cashing-Out •Transacting it •Fees •Etc,.

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coinplus
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January 02, 2017, 07:49:53 PM
 #774

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??
if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner
The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.


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mrkevio
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January 02, 2017, 11:25:47 PM
 #775

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??
if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner
The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.

And.. doesn't that affect our anonymity? Isn't this one of the reasons we're here right now for? If I wanted to be identified by anybody I'd use some other very popular payment methods I can use like everywhere around us. For using Bitcoin I need to go in another country because mine doesn't have like any service you can pay with BTC at. I understand companies need to be taxed (e.g. Microsoft gets their BTC earnings taxed), but not our private wallets.

EdenHazard
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January 02, 2017, 11:40:00 PM
 #776

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.
The government should not exist on this planet since all they can do is stealing and robbing money from citizens. They want to control everything and who disobey will be punished. Bitcoin will help us to against the centralized system. Tax will soon be vanished
they are collecting money from you, from citizens for a common interest .

government do it for a good reason , it is just the matter of are your government corrupt or not? if you have a honest government you will feel how much the benefit paying tax , otherwise you will just feel annoying , that is your corrupt government fault.

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richardsNY
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January 02, 2017, 11:43:52 PM
 #777

Since bitcoin is an internet currency that can be turn into a actual money. And Bitcoin too is known on Government but still government can't observe bitcoin that good. So I'm thinking if Bitcoin has tax??

Edit:
Now I know that bitcoin doesn't have tax but Transaction does..
Where do these Tax go?Government? And what kind of tax is it??
if you talking about tax in the country it goes in the goverment to develop the country
but in bitcoin the tax is the transaction fee and it goes to miner
The best thing about bitcoin is that it has nearly no taxes and if there is one they are so small so we don’t even notice it, and I believe if at some point people start using bitcoin in real life transaction and make a lot of money with it governments will start imposing taxes on those who earn a lot from it, because you can’t earn $10000 and not pay anything.

And.. doesn't that affect our anonymity? Isn't this one of the reasons we're here right now for? If I wanted to be identified by anybody I'd use some other very popular payment methods I can use like everywhere around us. For using Bitcoin I need to go in another country because mine doesn't have like any service you can pay with BTC at. I understand companies need to be taxed (e.g. Microsoft gets their BTC earnings taxed), but not our private wallets.

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.
darkangel11
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January 02, 2017, 11:44:53 PM
 #778

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
I think there is currently no government taxes of trade bitcoin. This course is one of the advantages bitcoin than others. but I think that a good citizen is he who pays income taxes. including income from bitcoin.
The government should not exist on this planet since all they can do is stealing and robbing money from citizens. They want to control everything and who disobey will be punished. Bitcoin will help us to against the centralized system. Tax will soon be vanished
they are collecting money from you, from citizens for a common interest .

government do it for a good reason , it is just the matter of are your government corrupt or not? if you have a honest government you will feel how much the benefit paying tax , otherwise you will just feel annoying , that is your corrupt government fault.
Most governments are corrupt. I've just read about corruption on the highest level of the EU. If the leaders are working to protect the rich companies from paying taxes, why should the citizens do it?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/01/jean-claude-juncker-blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show

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cryptomium
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January 02, 2017, 11:46:44 PM
 #779

It is established that bitcoin itself have no tax.  Bitcoin transaction has fee but no tax.  Probably bitcoin will have tax when the government implement taxation on exchanges and charge when you convert bitcoin.
GMPoison
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January 02, 2017, 11:52:11 PM
 #780

In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote
  • Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
  • Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply.  Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
  • The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
  • A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.

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