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Author Topic: Do Bitcoins have Tax??  (Read 39643 times)
royalfestus
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January 03, 2017, 05:00:53 AM
 #781

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.


     
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GMPoison
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January 03, 2017, 05:10:30 AM
 #782

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.
I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.
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January 03, 2017, 05:17:49 AM
 #783

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.
I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.
It's not necessary to tell them that you are earning bitcoin because time will come if your country is not yet regulated about bitcoins, the government are surely making rules to regulate bitcoin, and when the rules will come out, we have no option but to comply with it, it is not voluntary anymore but compulsory.



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GMPoison
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January 03, 2017, 05:30:31 AM
 #784

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.
I don't think it means any of that. All you have to do is report that you bought them, then spent them, and if you took a loss or made a gain. Just like you do with fiat. Hell, going along with the system and reporting all of your bitcoin transactions might even be a good thing. It could show the government that this thing is for real. And since it's digital by nature, keeping records will be easy, there are already a lot of services out there that help you with it.
It's not necessary to tell them that you are earning bitcoin because time will come if your country is not yet regulated about bitcoins, the government are surely making rules to regulate bitcoin, and when the rules will come out, we have no option but to comply with it, it is not voluntary anymore but compulsory.

The question isn't "can they ban bitcoin", it's "can a ban on bitcoin be effective?" The answer is no. It's decentralized. There is nothing a government or corporation can do to "ban" bitcoin. It's out of their control entirely. Rather than try to fight it I think govts will try to support it, because that's their only option. This realization is scary though because of the potential this technology has and what it could mean for governments and corporations. That's why no one knows what is going to happen. Me personally? I think it's going to start a revolution.   
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January 03, 2017, 10:32:12 AM
 #785

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.
calm down mate, despite the government giving tax on bitcoin users in the country, you can easily avoid it. because bitcoin anonymous so they will not know that you bitcoin users from that country






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January 03, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
 #786

If I pay bitcoin tax, where is the anonymity? It means the government knows where I live, my wallet address, probably the exchange I use and the amount I used in the exchange. If the government should know that much then they can control the use whenever.
calm down mate, despite the government giving tax on bitcoin users in the country, you can easily avoid it. because bitcoin anonymous so they will not know that you bitcoin users from that country

Not if they will ask the ISP for keywords/websites you're accessing, it's quite easy to find out about it. The hard part here is that they need to then prove who accessed the respective wallet, but it wouldn't be a surprise for me to see this happening at all.
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January 03, 2017, 10:47:51 AM
 #787

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.

Governments indeed won't find out what you are hiding, but the recent news of the IRS and Coinbase is just a first sign of what governments are going to do in the coming years. If we don't declare our coins, and I am sure the far majority won't be doing that, then the governments will come after us by forcing exchanges to hand over every bit of important user information. I just wonder what the next actions of the governments will be once they investigate user information. I think they will force people to pay tax plus a penalty for tax evasion. It's an extremely sad outcome if this turns out to be reality, but governments see tax evasion as a serious crime.

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January 03, 2017, 10:55:02 AM
 #788

It is established that bitcoin itself have no tax.  Bitcoin transaction has fee but no tax.  Probably bitcoin will have tax when the government implement taxation on exchanges and charge when you convert bitcoin.

The exchange websites that are legally operating to a certain country are obliged to pay their tax but that is no because of bitcoins taxation but they are registered as a business body in their country. Usually the fees that we are paying when we cashout or convert with them are already taxed subject to their compliance of taxation.
Exactly. So it's also mean that we're as bitcoin users indirectly paying all those taxes when converting our bitcoin to local fiat thus we're not avoiding any taxes. The taxes for bitcoin users still pretty low and rare due to lack of regulation about it so, it's not our mistake or our fault to not fully paying the taxes

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January 03, 2017, 11:11:56 AM
 #789

If you have a serious amount of coins sitting in your wallets, and you declare these holdings when filling in your yearly tax reports, then they will definitely make you pay tax over what you hold in Bitcoin. As long as you don't declare any of your holdings, the government won't find out, and thus you end up escaping from paying tax. That's how it should be done.

Governments indeed won't find out what you are hiding, but the recent news of the IRS and Coinbase is just a first sign of what governments are going to do in the coming years. If we don't declare our coins, and I am sure the far majority won't be doing that, then the governments will come after us by forcing exchanges to hand over every bit of important user information. I just wonder what the next actions of the governments will be once they investigate user information. I think they will force people to pay tax plus a penalty for tax evasion. It's an extremely sad outcome if this turns out to be reality, but governments see tax evasion as a serious crime.


Yes, I think it's being done in my country already. We have a wallet/exchange here called coins.ph which I think is a subwallet of coinbase.

A user will have to go through verification processes - from ID, to address, phone, and business verifications - when signing up with them. Once you get verified on all these plus link your coinbase wallet, your cash in and withdrawal limits get upgraded to the highest possible amount of bitcoins and cash you can withdraw or deposit on a 24-hour basis.

They may also ask you to go through a skype interview if they aren't convinced by documents you've submitted. So anonymity of users don't actually exist here -- if you signed up with them.

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January 03, 2017, 11:21:51 PM
 #790

In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote
  • Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
  • Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply.  Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
  • The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
  • A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.



But I think there are different rules of taxation in every country.  I was thinking about those who falls under tax exemption range.  I bet their bitcoin holding won't be taxed by the government Smiley.  I think those who have a huge stash of  Bitcoin are putting this ideology in a commoner minds so that they have someone to support them.  They say no to government tax lol but wanted to have a good society and well developed country. 

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January 04, 2017, 04:40:22 AM
 #791

In the United States, yes.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Quote
  • Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
  • Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply.  Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
  • The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
  • A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property.



But I think there are different rules of taxation in every country.  I was thinking about those who falls under tax exemption range.  I bet their bitcoin holding won't be taxed by the government Smiley.  I think those who have a huge stash of  Bitcoin are putting this ideology in a commoner minds so that they have someone to support them.  They say no to government tax lol but wanted to have a good society and well developed country. 
There are different rules but they are unified with the fact that once you are earning money you to give a fair share to the government.

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January 04, 2017, 07:53:50 AM
 #792

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

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January 04, 2017, 08:28:45 AM
 #793

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

They can charge taxes by taxing you when you being using it as a means of making money. How could they figure this out? Read up on what is happening with the US government and Coinbase. They want access to the records of Coinbase to see if anyone in the US has been avoiding paying taxes with bitcoin.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
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January 04, 2017, 08:43:08 AM
 #794

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

They can charge taxes by taxing you when you being using it as a means of making money. How could they figure this out? Read up on what is happening with the US government and Coinbase. They want access to the records of Coinbase to see if anyone in the US has been avoiding paying taxes with bitcoin.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
I heard this news already that US government take such action on tracing up for US citizen who evade to pay taxes and now they are really checking the records of coinbase.Taxation would really be possible to impose in exchanges and other means of investment but if we are talking on bitcoin itself then its impossible to impose taxes.

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January 04, 2017, 08:57:09 AM
 #795

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

They can charge taxes by taxing you when you being using it as a means of making money. How could they figure this out? Read up on what is happening with the US government and Coinbase. They want access to the records of Coinbase to see if anyone in the US has been avoiding paying taxes with bitcoin.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
I heard this news already that US government take such action on tracing up for US citizen who evade to pay taxes and now they are really checking the records of coinbase.Taxation would really be possible to impose in exchanges and other means of investment but if we are talking on bitcoin itself then its impossible to impose taxes.
Very true indeed. Apparently you are to realize and pay taxes on bitcoins mined as well even if they never touch fiat. Of course it would be much harder to keep track of this but still very possible.
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January 04, 2017, 10:16:31 AM
 #796

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

They can charge taxes by taxing you when you being using it as a means of making money. How could they figure this out? Read up on what is happening with the US government and Coinbase. They want access to the records of Coinbase to see if anyone in the US has been avoiding paying taxes with bitcoin.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
I heard this news already that US government take such action on tracing up for US citizen who evade to pay taxes and now they are really checking the records of coinbase.Taxation would really be possible to impose in exchanges and other means of investment but if we are talking on bitcoin itself then its impossible to impose taxes.
Very true indeed. Apparently you are to realize and pay taxes on bitcoins mined as well even if they never touch fiat. Of course it would be much harder to keep track of this but still very possible.
Its really hard to keep track regarding on this matter thats why they targeting exchanges based on the place.If government found out that taxation is already being affected because of bitcoin then they will surely make action on it and thats what the US government is actually doing right now.

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January 04, 2017, 10:29:50 AM
 #797

Some governments are trying to regulate the bitcoin and tax is part of these regulations. But I think it most cases they don't put the taxes on bitcoin itself but on trading with it and other business related to bitcoin. So if you are trader on localbitcoins you have to pay taxes and if you are just holding them.in your wallet you don't.
Most governments have already regulated Bitcoin but you don't have to pay any taxes. How can they even charge taxes on Bitcoin, it is a cryptocurrency after all. If Bitcoin ever does take off, then governments might start charging taxes on it.

They can charge taxes by taxing you when you being using it as a means of making money. How could they figure this out? Read up on what is happening with the US government and Coinbase. They want access to the records of Coinbase to see if anyone in the US has been avoiding paying taxes with bitcoin.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Yeah but the fact is that coinbase can easily avoid that.

Nothing in btc world is... material dependant. You can put a btc activity and company more or less anywhere in the world (except for mining)

So that means there is nothing governments can do to put your company in a 0 tax country or even in international waters!
They can try as much as they want, they can't tax you if you don't want to.

But you can't avoid paying taxation on value. Because it's the company creating the product you're buying that will pay it and add it to your product price!

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January 04, 2017, 10:31:37 AM
 #798

i think bitcoin have do not tax because bitcoin is not approved by any government and but i think one day we will be pay bitcoin tax and i hope that all government will be adopt the bitcoin because nowadays bitcoin is very much popular and acceptable in anywhere for online shopping.
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January 04, 2017, 10:42:24 AM
 #799

i think bitcoin have do not tax because bitcoin is not approved by any government and but i think one day we will be pay bitcoin tax and i hope that all government will be adopt the bitcoin because nowadays bitcoin is very much popular and acceptable in anywhere for online shopping.

Governments don't have to directly mention Bitcoin as being something that can be taxed. It's very simply, if you have $100,000 sitting in Bitcoin, then it adds up to your wealth, and over you wealth you have to pay tax. If you use these coins to trade with, and you make whatever percentage of profit, then you have to pay tax over these profits as well. And the $100,000 figure I mentioned was just an example as it can be any amount from a decent level. Other than that, governments will not adopt Bitcoin. That's something you should forget about.

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January 04, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
 #800

i think bitcoin have do not tax because bitcoin is not approved by any government and but i think one day we will be pay bitcoin tax and i hope that all government will be adopt the bitcoin because nowadays bitcoin is very much popular and acceptable in anywhere for online shopping.

Governments don't have to directly mention Bitcoin as being something that can be taxed. It's very simply, if you have $100,000 sitting in Bitcoin, then it adds up to your wealth, and over you wealth you have to pay tax. If you use these coins to trade with, and you make whatever percentage of profit, then you have to pay tax over these profits as well. And the $100,000 figure I mentioned was just an example as it can be any amount from a decent level. Other than that, governments will not adopt Bitcoin. That's something you should forget about.

That's what is so curious to me though! The fact that governments won't and I don't see how they could possibly adopt it. It's so curious to me because in my head, bitcoin is going to change the world. It absolutely will, it just needs time. Time for people to learn it, to trust it, and to adopt it. So with that fact planted in my brain and assuming that world becomes a reality in the future, there are only two equally wild scenarios that could possibly then play out. Scenario A is the scenario in which the US government adopts bitcoin. This scenario we know to be impossible. This only leaves scenario B in which a financial revolution takes places, and only god knows what happens then. It's what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

Am I crazy, or am I not the only one who feels this way?
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