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Author Topic: ASIC vendor status  (Read 5987 times)
Gyrsur
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January 13, 2013, 02:24:39 PM
 #1

Want to know which ASIC vendor has which status.

Just facts no other things.

Thanks!

UPDATE:

avalon-asic.com: deadline passed! ship announcement for the next days!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137534.0;topicseen

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January 13, 2013, 04:00:23 PM
 #2

fact: dont order with them https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093#msg3093
another fact:this is what BFL presented at CES, a case.. wow http://i.imgur.com/fcma3.jpg
and last: that manufacturer from china is imho a scam too
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January 13, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
 #3

A thread about the different vendors shipping dates: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=129879.0
A thread about the different hardware power consumption: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114363.0
Another thread comparing all the vendors: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131249.0

Remember that bASIC is pretty much out. A lot (and I mean a lot) of shit has gone down in the past week, and pretty much everyone is on the same page that their product will never ship. Do NOT order from bASIC.
EDIT: Source is a sticky in this forum posted by a mod, with a link to the bASIC forum where 2 posts from the bASIC staff recommend a CC chargeback: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136196.0

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January 13, 2013, 05:35:33 PM
 #4

regarding bASIC "At this point, if you are thinking of sending me a refund request, I recommend you do a chargeback instead." so yeah.. pretty happy right now i did not order anything from any vendor.
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January 13, 2013, 08:05:53 PM
 #5

regarding bASIC "At this point, if you are thinking of sending me a refund request, I recommend you do a chargeback instead." so yeah.. pretty happy right now i did not order anything from any vendor.

lol so that means he spent all the pre-order money?

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January 13, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
 #6

looks that way, i think we heard of him for the last time.
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January 13, 2013, 09:31:25 PM
 #7

fact: dont order with them https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093#msg3093
another fact:this is what BFL presented at CES, a case.. wow http://i.imgur.com/fcma3.jpg
and last: that manufacturer from china is imho a scam too

There's a fair chance that all three will ship. bASIC mostly suffered a PR disaster after the PR guy was kept in the dark, but if bASIC's assets are real then someone will buy them and start selling chips/boards.

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.
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January 14, 2013, 01:08:05 AM
 #8

Quote

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.

Pardon my ignorance but can u list the reasons Why Huh

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January 14, 2013, 06:06:12 PM
 #9

Quote

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.

Pardon my ignorance but can u list the reasons Why Huh

Because we only have to wait 1 week to find out. :-)

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January 14, 2013, 06:20:17 PM
 #10

Quote

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.

Pardon my ignorance but can u list the reasons Why Huh

1) Avalon has provided a lot of detail in their thread, details that BFL has refused to give.  They even had copies of contracts/invoices.

2) Avalon hasn't been having delay after delay [BFL has already had 4 months worth of delays, each one followed by a new date just a few weeks away].

3) No spec revisions suddenly claiming a massive increase in speed after already taking in at least $1m in pre-order money.  Sure seems odd you have a price, rough ship date, then come out with a HUGE increase in speed/efficiency later (after pre-orders probably slowed down to almost nothing).

4) Avalon had a limited pre-order run.  They do not continue to take in extra money.

#4 being by far the biggest reason to think of all current ASIC claims, Avalon is most likely to be legit.  They took in enough money from pre-orders to fund the batch being produced, and stopped taking more.  If they were a scam, it'd be pretty silly to stop taking orders so early.  In a ponzi scheme it makes sense, you don't want to have a huge liability show up early.  But in a simple "take the money and run" scam, there's never a reason to close off orders.

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January 14, 2013, 09:43:38 PM
 #11

Quote

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.

Pardon my ignorance but can u list the reasons Why Huh

1) Avalon has provided a lot of detail in their thread, details that BFL has refused to give.  They even had copies of contracts/invoices.

2) Avalon hasn't been having delay after delay [BFL has already had 4 months worth of delays, each one followed by a new date just a few weeks away].

3) No spec revisions suddenly claiming a massive increase in speed after already taking in at least $1m in pre-order money.  Sure seems odd you have a price, rough ship date, then come out with a HUGE increase in speed/efficiency later (after pre-orders probably slowed down to almost nothing).

4) Avalon had a limited pre-order run.  They do not continue to take in extra money.

#4 being by far the biggest reason to think of all current ASIC claims, Avalon is most likely to be legit.  They took in enough money from pre-orders to fund the batch being produced, and stopped taking more.  If they were a scam, it'd be pretty silly to stop taking orders so early.  In a ponzi scheme it makes sense, you don't want to have a huge liability show up early.  But in a simple "take the money and run" scam, there's never a reason to close off orders.

Thanks for the Update...will be waiting ~60 days to get my chargeback from bASIC

Going to live in the LTC world with a couple of GPU rigs until all of the ASIC shenanigans settles down

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January 14, 2013, 10:00:00 PM
 #12

fact: dont order with them https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093#msg3093
another fact:this is what BFL presented at CES, a case.. wow http://i.imgur.com/fcma3.jpg
and last: that manufacturer from china is imho a scam too

There's a fair chance that all three will ship. bASIC mostly suffered a PR disaster after the PR guy was kept in the dark, but if bASIC's assets are real then someone will buy them and start selling chips/boards.

BFL said weeks in advance that their chips wouldn't be ready for CES. This is not news, and has nothing to do with whether they can eventually ship.

Avalon's probably the least likely to be a scam.

A PR disaster?  Wow.  Your just making this shit up I think.   What "assets" does bASIC have even?  What are you talking about?  LukasBradley flew out and reported back that he wasn't able to "discern any value whatsoever" (quoted from memory, cuz that quote was so damn memorable).

For God's sake man, wake up!  When the vendor suggests all the customers get a chargeback rather than wait for refunds, you have to be a moron to think the project has "a fair chance".  The only responsible thing to tell people is get out while you still can!
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January 14, 2013, 10:04:30 PM
 #13

When reps for a company are advising people to DO A CHARGEBACK you have to be an idiot to not RUN (not walk, RUN) for the exit.  There are chargeback fees of $25 to $50 on top of the cost of the refund.   It never makes sense for a company to request chargebacks over just issuing a refund.  Too many chargebacks means the comapny will lose their merchant account and likely see their reserve frozen for 180 days.  That is something that benefits nobody.

So a company NEVER asks customers to do a chargeback.  Ever.  For any reason.  The fact that anyone in the company is making that request should scare the crap out of any customer soon to be unsecured creditor of an insolvent company.
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January 14, 2013, 10:41:43 PM
 #14

Ok here is my experience and my thoughts on this. Bare with me.

I placed a pre order with BFL around Sept 10-12. I can't remember exactly and I don't think it really matters here anyways.

I placed a pre order because I wanted to try this bitcoin thing out but I did not really wanted to build a computer and run GPU's and make a mess where I live. I also did not want to use all the electricity associated with GPU's. FPGA's were still available but cost the same as the new ASIC's and used even less power. Why spend 600 dollars on 832mhz when you could spend 650 dollars on 30,000 MHZ .BFL looked like a nice compact and well built product.

I did not know about the criminal records and the past experience with delayed shipping of BFL. After finding out I still was willing to stay on.However I was very concerned after every delay.

After the first delay I became more involved in the forum while reading as much of the speculation going on here. I also had noticed there was absolutely no information about specs or pictures and to make my gut feeling worse NO ADDRESSES of these companies. Just PO boxes and that set off alarms

After October turned into November then December I was starting to post threats of cancelling my orders if there was ONE more delay. Jan 1 was my deadline and it was firm.

When Jan 1 came and gone and the same games were being played I fired off a refund request with one condition.

I will stay on and wait for the final product ONLY if I get a confirmed ship date. I also said If I don't get a reply in 3 days I will charge back.

 
You see I used PayPal to buy it but I used PayPal to charge my credit card. So NO ONE can screw me. I was protected by law.

Then in less than 24 hours they sent a refund back to my CC. I guess no ship date. By law they have to refund you back your money if no ship date was offered.

What that tell me is they are still not able to give me a confirmed ship date.

THEN right after the bASIC company imploded and I felt pretty dam proud that I got out. I slept well that night.

Then after BFL sends out an update which in my understanding is either an absolute lie or they now have 60 days to ship or refund ppls money.I think BFL saw the shit storm that was happening with bASIC and to stem the tide they had to offer a good update to keep their customers. I also have seen idiots asking on the BFL forum if they could add more to their orders. *facepalm*

I think BFL will not ship in 60 days or they would not have refunded my money.Besides I would not want to buy a highly untested unit that has been rushed to avoid a refund tsunami.

I feel compelled to place this to have other unsuspecting CON-sumers get taken for a ride as I did.

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January 14, 2013, 10:50:47 PM
 #15

4) Avalon had a limited pre-order run.  They do not continue to take in extra money.

#4 being by far the biggest reason to think of all current ASIC claims, Avalon is most likely to be legit.  They took in enough money from pre-orders to fund the batch being produced, and stopped taking more.  If they were a scam, it'd be pretty silly to stop taking orders so early.  In a ponzi scheme it makes sense, you don't want to have a huge liability show up early.  But in a simple "take the money and run" scam, there's never a reason to close off orders.

Not only that, but Avalon knew that pinpointing the exact power usage was a very difficult early task, so they set low expectations that could have potentially hurt their sales and have refined their numbers as they've gone further along. They've been slow on other things, but they are still operating under the assumption that bASIC and BFL are going to market before them, so they are rushing the product and not getting out the demo, openwrt ISO, and etc. I think they can be forgiven for not having spent much time on it, once the products are shipped, they know they will have the time to work on the other stuff.

That said, I'm not sure how any of us could actually vouch for these companies, we can only offer what our recommendations would be based on our experiences with them. I've ordered Icarus and had them delivered as expected. I never wanted to use the FPGA predecessor to the bASIC stuff, because it seemed like too much work trying to find my own way to power them. I never used BFL FPGAs because I couldn't stand the idea of placing an order and wondering if it'd be 2 or 3 months before it arrived.

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January 14, 2013, 10:57:33 PM
 #16

...
 Why spend 600 dollars on 832mhz when you could spend 650 dollars on 30,000 MHZ .BFL looked like a nice compact and well built product.
...

Mhash/s != MHz(Megahertz)

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January 14, 2013, 11:08:46 PM
 #17

...
 Why spend 600 dollars on 832mhz when you could spend 650 dollars on 30,000 MHZ .BFL looked like a nice compact and well built product.
...

Mhash/s != MHz(Megahertz)

yea i'm an idiot. Roll Eyes
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January 14, 2013, 11:52:37 PM
 #18

I can't see how anyone would still hold an order with BFL or BASIC with all the current data. Unless your purely gambling with your money those are high risk ventures at the current moment. If they ever realease a working product then they can be reevaluated. Goodluck guys.
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January 15, 2013, 02:00:33 AM
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I can't see how anyone would still hold an order with BFL or BASIC with all the current data. Unless your purely gambling with your money those are high risk ventures at the current moment. If they ever realease a working product then they can be reevaluated. Goodluck guys.

I've still got my order with BFL because I believe that while they seem a bit sketchy with the long and repeated delays, and they don't really answer questions about their products, much of which is still clouded by darkness, I still think they'll get a product out eventually, and it'll be the superior product from any company. There's a bit that screams scam, but I also feel that there is also quite a bit that's a little beyond what someone would go through for a scam. I feel they're too invested in this to be doing it for quick money. That doesn't mean they won't fold or go under from lack of funds (having used preorders to fund everything), but I don't believe they'll turn out to be direct scammers.
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January 15, 2013, 02:10:44 AM
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I can't see how anyone would still hold an order with BFL or BASIC with all the current data. Unless your purely gambling with your money those are high risk ventures at the current moment. If they ever realease a working product then they can be reevaluated. Goodluck guys.

I've still got my order with BFL because I believe that while they seem a bit sketchy with the long and repeated delays, and they don't really answer questions about their products, much of which is still clouded by darkness, I still think they'll get a product out eventually, and it'll be the superior product from any company. There's a bit that screams scam, but I also feel that there is also quite a bit that's a little beyond what someone would go through for a scam. I feel they're too invested in this to be doing it for quick money. That doesn't mean they won't fold or go under from lack of funds (having used preorders to fund everything), but I don't believe they'll turn out to be direct scammers.

Who was it that said its easier to say a bigger lie than a small one? If it was like 30 bucks maybe I'd gamble but to drop 600 on a bet. I'll pass and wait after everyone else gets one and finds all the bugs.

I suspect they will have to drop the price on them after to be competitive and to allow a decent ROI. After all after we will see the difficulty average out and a better idea on the performance/power consumption.

Imagine going into a showroom and buying a car from a catalog with out road testing and getting an idea of the common bugs a new series of car/truck. Doesn't make sense at all and imagine you were using the vehicle for a business like towing or delivering good or as a taxi.

Too much risk for the price. imo
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