Organised crime

[tammao96]

Bitcoin is like money, it is a tool, but people often use it as an excuse to justify their false beliefs to be right. Its role should look right as a tool in life. But just a little ahead of everyone. I always believe in the bright future of bitcoin

[bryant.coleman]

A thread from 2010, wow that's really old. I don't think much has changed in the last 12 years. Criminals have been using crypto currencies to scam people and save their money. But there is no real difference to fiat money. If there were no cryptos these people would still be criminals and just use normal fiat money. The only thing that really changed is that more people use cryptos, so the majority today are definitely not criminals.

I have to disagree with you. I have been around since 2012, and I would say that the incidents of criminal activities making use of Bitcoin has definitely gone down during this period. If you remember, 2013-17 period was the golden age of dark markets. There were all sort of illegal services available on the dark web, including narcotics, murder for hire and even illegal weapons. But that was many years ago. Look around. You will notice a sharp decline in such activities in the dark web, during the last few years. Even the crypto-based Ponzi schemes are now becoming rare. You will not find projects similar to PlusToken and OneCoin nowadays.

[Ultegra134]

you should care if you are a bitcoiner because crimes using bitcoins affects the reputation of bitcoin . do you like it when someone says bitcoins is a scam and a tool use by criminals  ?
i heard it everywhere and it breaks my heart .
organized crime that is done by two or more people is is more serious than unorganized crime done by a single person because they can dealt a lot of damage  .

There are other ways to fight criminals than tracking their expenses

if the crime happens in btc . tracking their btc transaction can help solved the crime than using methods that are not connected to btc

I hope you fully understand that crime can be connected with any currency, right? Do you think that criminals in the streets, selling drugs or weaponry, operate with Bitcoin? Bitcoin was notorious a few years ago, due to the Darknet markets, such as Silk Road, Agora, Alpha bay and many more, selling all kind of illegal items, from illegal substances to counterfeit notes.

Cryptocurrency is still used in the Darknet due to their nature of being anonymous, it's definitely an alarming issue, but I don't think there's much you can do, crime is everywhere.

[andriarto]

you should care if you are a bitcoiner because crimes using bitcoins affects the reputation of bitcoin . do you like it when someone says bitcoins is a scam and a tool use by criminals  ?
i heard it everywhere and it breaks my heart .
organized crime that is done by two or more people is is more serious than unorganized crime done by a single person because they can dealt a lot of damage  .

There are other ways to fight criminals than tracking their expenses

if the crime happens in btc . tracking their btc transaction can help solved the crime than using methods that are not connected to btc

I hope you fully understand that crime can be connected with any currency, right? Do you think that criminals in the streets, selling drugs or weaponry, operate with Bitcoin? Bitcoin was notorious a few years ago, due to the Darknet markets, such as Silk Road, Agora, Alpha bay and many more, selling all kind of illegal items, from illegal substances to counterfeit notes.

Cryptocurrency is still used in the Darknet due to their nature of being anonymous, it's definitely an alarming issue, but I don't think there's much you can do, crime is everywhere.

right, crime is everywhere, and as ordinary people we cannot prevent it, but with this we can provide input to the government so that they follow up. Therefore, we can also understand that on the one hand, the anonymous nature provides an opening for criminals to launch their business

[Shenzou]

Should I care about organised crime using bitcoins ?

I don't.  Shame on me, I know.

On the contrary, the fact that organised crime will spend energy in using bitcoins ensures me that governments won't be able to control the bitcoin network.

Crime should be fought for what it is.  A murder is a murder.  A theft is a theft.  But when a criminal is using a car, he's just a person who is driving a car.  Fast cars are important for thieves, for they allow them to escape from police.  Still, I don't think it would be a good idea to forbid the use of fast cars.  It's the same old debate regarding the tool and its use.  A hammer can kill someone, if it is used in this intention.  Still, we don't ban hammers.

Therefore, I don't care if organised crime is using bitcoins.  I don't care at all.  There are other ways to fight criminals than tracking their expenses.

I totaly agree with you, for a long time many people and the media have linked bitcoin with crime which hindered it progress for quite a while, crime is crime whatever you do to combat it poeple just keep on coming up with new ways to do it and if governments want to combat it they should find new ways to do it, and the same way that bitcoin is anonymous to the criminals and drug dealers it is anonymous to the governmment so maybe they can use it to their advantage to catch them.

[Sithara007]

I totaly agree with you, for a long time many people and the media have linked bitcoin with crime which hindered it progress for quite a while, crime is crime whatever you do to combat it poeple just keep on coming up with new ways to do it and if governments want to combat it they should find new ways to do it, and the same way that bitcoin is anonymous to the criminals and drug dealers it is anonymous to the governmment so maybe they can use it to their advantage to catch them.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Each and every transaction is recorded in the Blockchain and the authorities can easily trace the users by checking the transactions they made. If you really want to remain anonymous while using cryptocurrency, then you need to opt for a coin that is specifically designed for that purpose, such as Monero, Zcash , Veil or Deep Onion. Mixing bitcoin may give some anonymity, but once again there is no guarantee that the authorities may seize the domain and extract all the mixing information.

[Xinarae*]

Bitcoin is a very popular currency in crypto and some of it is not anonymous. Although not controlled by the government it is used for investment in many countries around the world governments cannot use them to their advantage even if they want to commit crimes for their own benefit bitcoin investors are different from most of us. Driven by a desire for innovation rather than a human ideal they are particularly destitute when it comes to gambling they just can't help themselves.

[zanezane]

The only problem with this is that it will damage the image of bitcoin as a tool for committing crimes and being implicated for something illegal just because you use bitcoin which is pretty serious given that police can kill innocent people if they find it amusing but besides that, I don't think that we will have to worry about it too much.

[rodskee]

Bitcoin is like money, it is a tool, but people often use it as an excuse to justify their false beliefs to be right. Its role should look right as a tool in life. But just a little ahead of everyone. I always believe in the bright future of bitcoin

In what way that it has been used to justify false belief? about trading ? or about usage/ or about wrong usage in terms of Illegal attempt?
Bitcoin is Our future actually and the generation next to us and that is reality.
This is not just for today , but or tomorrow of everyone around the globe, maybe they have not found it yeah but trust me in time? they will.

[Kittygalore]

Same way it's foolish/lawless to ban bananna because criminals are perverting its usage,  misusing or abusing it.
The wise goes after the criminals and let the good banana be... or even put things in place to prevent the misuse or abuse of bananna.

It's OK to ban bad/unsafe bananna though

What kind of criminal is using a banana? I guess it's more the perverted side of people but not necessarily criminals so you are basically wrong with you analogy to compare banana with bitcoin. Regarding this dilemma of organized crimes using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as a medium to evade taxes, launder money or fund their illegal activities, we can't do much about them without compromising something big in bitcoin, unless we are prepared to do that, we will be on a stalemate with this people.

[sapnu]

Crimes involving the use of bitcoin has been going on for years and it has been the medium on how those who commit felonies keep their anonymosity. We can't blame for being like that neither consider ourselves criminals for owning such. The crime you commit defines what rules against the law you have done and those things are the ones that can get you in jail. There's nothing wrong for not caring about those kind of criminal acts because there are too many already and mostly the powerful people in the world are behind those.

[mojun7982]

Should I care about organised crime using bitcoins ?

I don't.  Shame on me, I know.

On the contrary, the fact that organised crime will spend energy in using bitcoins ensures me that governments won't be able to control the bitcoin network.

Crime should be fought for what it is.  A murder is a murder.  A theft is a theft.  But when a criminal is using a car, he's just a person who is driving a car.  Fast cars are important for thieves, for they allow them to escape from police.  Still, I don't think it would be a good idea to forbid the use of fast cars.  It's the same old debate regarding the tool and its use.  A hammer can kill someone, if it is used in this intention.  Still, we don't ban hammers.

Therefore, I don't care if organised crime is using bitcoins.  I don't care at all.  There are other ways to fight criminals than tracking their expenses.

You explain it well, but your examples are old in regards to the message they are supposed to convey. It is not that politicians don't know that a chair used to bang someones head into pieces shouldn't be labeled a deadly weapon and therefore become forbidden.
I think it is more a question that's all about power relations and social hierarchies. Out of a sudden everybody has the same possibilities. Everybody the same. That wasn't the case before because hiding money was difficult, expensive, required smart lawyers and oversea connections. Or it required many laundering, but in a smart way. That is also not that easy for the average person. Now this has changed and I believe it is all about that. If you look at those claiming Bitcoin is difficult, you probably won't find that many who are not hiding crimes or cash in some secret bank account in the Bahamas or Cyprus.

[Zilon]

The fact people misuse an opportunity doesn't necessarily mean such is a bad innovation. Organised crime using Bitcoin isn't different from organised crime using fiat just that the ease to which bitcoin can be transferred without detailed information of who the recipient is. Just like we can't still stop the use of the internet because it's where the general concept of this digital compactibility emanated from. Learning to stay on alert and being security consious both online and offline would rather be the approach to tackling this.

[paxmao]

Tracking expenses has been proven an effective method since Al Capone. Remember that this ganster was caught on regards of not paying taxes and nothing else. And that has also been the case with many criminals that eventually need to move the money around. It is also quite a good punishment because they are stripped of the money they have earned during many years, so it has a demoralising effect on the criminals.
I am very much in favour of using the money to track the miss use and there is also the terrorisms which has changed the way we all think about what level of freedom can we enjoy.

[cabron]

Tracking expenses has been proven an effective method since Al Capone. Remember that this ganster was caught on regards of not paying taxes and nothing else. And that has also been the case with many criminals that eventually need to move the money around. It is also quite a good punishment because they are stripped of the money they have earned during many years, so it has a demoralising effect on the criminals.
I am very much in favour of using the money to track the miss use and there is also the terrorisms which has changed the way we all think about what level of freedom can we enjoy.

Talking about IRS that can possibly link your fresh Bitcoin address to your wallet without having to tell you how. The authorities protected Al Capone but the corrupt police can't protect him from IRS.

There is a lot of organized crime even before Bitcoin. Banks are an organized crime group just as how Andreas Antonopolous describe and FED as an organized ponzi. Just take a look at Amazon that can now sell Cannabis.  https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/yes-amazon-will-sell-weed-stop-worrying-and-start-acting

[carter34]

The fact people misuse an opportunity doesn't necessarily mean such is a bad innovation. Organised crime using Bitcoin isn't different from organised crime using fiat just that the ease to which bitcoin can be transferred without detailed information of who the recipient is. Just like we can't still stop the use of the internet because it's where the general concept of this digital compactibility emanated from. Learning to stay on alert and being security consious both online and offline would rather be the approach to tackling this.

Truly staying at alert is the solution to the very many situation being faced in the society. Crime is as old as the world and so it can't be stopped and bitcoin won't be blamed or made to look as the course or growth of crime. The government should also stopped fiat use to pay assassins to eliminate opponent and in office. Fiat is used for many of the crimes before the innovation of bitcoin.

[Rono]

I think bitcoin has a large platform where you can not  suppose to say anyone your purpose. This is peer to peer connection within a moment anyone can transfer a large amount of money within a moment.No Authorities  are here to make  any objection,you are totally free to all your own.Here is the lots of positive Energy but some group of people making this useful method turned into illegal purpose. They use the wrong way this is really a bad thing.They escape large amount of money without any Authorities or any problem.They can safely hide their Criminal activities with the method of crypto currency.I thing Everything In the World can use good purpose or bad purpose but the thing is up to you.

[fiulpro]

Like it or not, cutting off a criminal's money supply has been proven a highly effective method of targeting and neutralizing individual criminals.  Law enforcement will always want power over money, be it USD or EUR or Pecunix or bitcoin.

Honestly if they are criminals then they already know all the ways they can get money through black markets or even through other third party where people would do anything for a couple of extra dollars. You can't cut off anyone's money supply since 24*7 surveillance is going to make holes in the pocket of government officials.

Bitcoins on the other hand can be tracked and government just want to blame something or someone for all the increasing cases.

I think bitcoin has a large platform where you can not  suppose to say anyone your purpose. This is peer to peer connection within a moment anyone can transfer a large amount of money within a moment.No Authorities  are here to make  any objection,you are totally free to all your own.Here is the lots of positive Energy but some group of people making this useful method turned into illegal purpose. They use the wrong way this is really a bad thing.They escape large amount of money without any Authorities or any problem.They can safely hide their Criminal activities with the method of crypto currency.I thing Everything In the World can use good purpose or bad purpose but the thing is up to you.

I do not think that's true, I do think that other currencies like fiat are the ones which are impossible to track but Bitcoins on the other hand is completely trackable thus it's a way safer option for everyone as compared to fiat and money.

[jostorres]

Crimes involving the use of bitcoin has been going on for years and it has been the medium on how those who commit felonies keep their anonymosity. We can't blame for being like that neither consider ourselves criminals for owning such. The crime you commit defines what rules against the law you have done and those things are the ones that can get you in jail. There's nothing wrong for not caring about those kind of criminal acts because there are too many already and mostly the powerful people in the world are behind those.

Yeah, I don’t think there is anything to be ashamed about as you have said because a crime that is committed with bitcoin still has nothing to do with bitcoin. When people commits a crime they should be held accountable for the crime that they have committed, and we shouldn’t blame it on bitcoin and neglect the evil and stupid people who have committed the crime.

It’s really annoying for me whenever I see people saying that bitcoin is bad, just because they saw it being used for a bad purpose, I am not happy about it. Sometimes we leave to pursue those who commits the crime and only focus on putting the blame on bitcoin and labeling it as bad. It’s high time that those who commits such crimes are traced, caught and punished.

[Sternbinder]

Totally agree.
Criminals may use everything that ordinary people use, but it doesn't mean that those things should be banned. Apart from cryptocurrency, organised crime also uses nylon stockings to hide the criminals' faces, should they also be banned? There shouldn't be any remorse about using the things that bad guys use. Like, you shouldn't have moustache because Hitler had. That is absolutely rediculous.
By the way, mob also uses cash which is also hard to control. Surely, bad guys have more opportunities for financing but it doesn't mean that bitcoins are used only by criminals. As usual, there are lots of excesses anout new technologies. The main thing is that people are afraid of something new. It goes without saying that new technologies bring new challenges along with new perks. So why not find the solutions to those challenges instead of stupidly banning the technology?