Solar array starting to look good.

[notlist3d]

This is a good link for people in the US trying to find out about incentives that might be available in their area: http://www.dsireusa.org/

If you ever have time buysolar I still would love to hear the cost of the project for expert like you in this area.   And also what you estimate to be timeline till it is paid off.

Those are two big things I would still love to know.

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[philipma1957]

Very very awesome.  I wish I have some land in Massachusetts where my family live to do this. 

The State is offering incredible incentives.

yeah some east coast states are very good.  NJ ,MA  a few more.

[VirosaGITS]

yeah some east coast states are very good.  NJ ,MA  a few more.

So for your setup, if you pay (i think you said) 0.13-0.17$/kWh, how much does the electric company pay you back for what you sell off to them? I assume they do it at profit?

[philipma1957]

So for your setup, if you pay (i think you said) 0.13-0.17$/kWh, how much does the electric company pay you back for what you sell off to them? I assume they do it at profit?

oh yeah of course they do.   NJ rates in winter are 12.7-13 cents>   so when I/buysolar sells excess to power company I would get paid 5 cents.

So the spread is 13 to 5 in the winter  the spread is 17 to 5 in the summer.

This means a 60kwatt array can spend 16kwatts in house and sell  44kwatts.

16 x 13 = 208  
44 x   5 = 220        winter mining  Oct 1 to Jun 1

13 x 17 =  221       summer mining Jun 1 to Oct 1
47 x 5  =   235  

so when it gets dark  you buy back at  13 cents

when it is light you sell at                     5 cents

as you can see  you basically 0 out the power bill this way.

now 5 cent vs 13 cents seems really fucking unfair  but  

the 13 cent number is really 9.9 cents + 3.1 cents.
9.9 cents is power cost   3.1 cents is transport cost.
So  the 3.1 number is the cost of wires/transformers/ required to get the power to you.

Remember these buy back rules are NJ,USA  

It is different everywhere and some places pay  you  as low as 1 cent .

In the case of this setup.  The monthly power  bill after setup is close to  0 dollars.

Mining with avalon6s and s-7's  pays higher then 5 cents an hour  so it pays to mine rather then sell power back at 5 cents.

The beauty of this is if mining gets bad (under 5 cents) stop spending the 16kwatts on mining and just sell  the power.

So if the ½ ing fucks stuff up so what stop mining and sell power to the grid.

[VirosaGITS]

Thanks for the reply, this is actually pretty interesting.

For instance electricity in residences here is typically 0.06$/kWh, which is rather profitable for mining. And industrial setups here can get a bit cheaper.
This means that with your solar setup, you're able to more or less sell its electricity at a rate close to what i would pay for mine.

This sound rather fantastic because if your setup last, you can simply stop mining and earn money back from the electricity company. 0.05$/kWh is pretty cool, even though they might make up to 0.1$/kWh profit on you.

Maybe you could connect your neighbors to you and sell at 0.1$/kWh yourself?

[philipma1957]

Thanks for the reply, this is actually pretty interesting.

For instance electricity in residences here is typically 0.06$/kWh, which is rather profitable for mining. And industrial setups here can get a bit cheaper.
This means that with your solar setup, you're able to more or less sell its electricity at a rate close to what i would pay for mine.

This sound rather fantastic because if your setup last, you can simply stop mining and earn money back from the electricity company. 0.05$/kWh is pretty cool, even though they might make up to 0.1$/kWh profit on you.

Maybe you could connect your neighbors to you and sell at 0.1$/kWh yourself?

Nah they would regulate against it.

Kind of the same as having a tall tv antenna and letting your neighbors hook into it.  You need a license as they would say you are a cable provider.

[VirosaGITS]

Nah they would regulate against it.

Kind of the same as having a tall tv antenna and letting your neighbors hook into it.  You need a license as they would say you are a cable provider.

...of course. Regulations to avoid undermining the big bois. That completely did not enter my mind at the time. Ah well. Its not too bad that you can get 0.05$. Though i hope in the near future, things get a bit better for motivating "green power" production.

[World]

"wizkid057" has a similar project
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/34531-Plan-Off-grid-solar-with-a-Model-S-battery-pack-at-the-heart
https://plus.google.com/photos/+wizkid057/albums/6191209366653704273

[fr4nkthetank]

wow man, this project is awesome.  Would be nice to know (roughly) the cost to install panels like that for a normal consumer (not what he paid for).  I have neighbors who have some pannels, but somehow I don't think it will ROI in this lifetime, my electric is under 0.05cents CAD, and when its really cold its more expensive though.  normal rates are below 9cents CAD.

[bronxnua]

wow man, this project is awesome.  Would be nice to know (roughly) the cost to install panels like that for a normal consumer (not what he paid for).  I have neighbors who have some pannels, but somehow I don't think it will ROI in this lifetime, my electric is under 0.05cents CAD, and when its really cold its more expensive though.  normal rates are below 9cents CAD.

I have installed 35 Sunpower 327  panels on my roof.

in NYC  con crooks  charge this.. use $100 of power you get $350 bill.

Phil  I was charged fixed  8.9 per kw from my esco.. con crooks was charging me 13.3 transportation and taxes and all came out to about .40 per kw.

[bctmke]

You've mentioned this project for a while now and I'm glad to see it coming to fruition!  I'll keep an eye on this as it's very intriguing

[nhando]

Philip,

Is there a per KW bonus NJ gives back to you each month like MA does?  The deal for MA is just incredible and the payback period is less than 6yrs, pretty wild.  My brother in law wants to do it but his house have too many tall pine trees blocking the sun.  This is a very cool project.  Can't wait to see when it's complete and you start seeing the bills / credits.

[wishxy]

And here is kind a more magic is about to come, very soon
http://www.innovationtoronto.com/2016/02/engineering-material-magic-could-allow-devices-to-run-100-times-faster/

[buysolar]

Philip,

Is there a per KW bonus NJ gives back to you each month like MA does?  The deal for MA is just incredible and the payback period is less than 6yrs, pretty wild.  My brother in law wants to do it but his house have too many tall pine trees blocking the sun.  This is a very cool project.  Can't wait to see when it's complete and you start seeing the bills / credits.

Yes NJ has a performance incentive in place for solar and other non polluting energy technologies. It's about $250/mgh right now.

Residential roof mount solar systems are about $3/watt installed in NJ. And typically pay for themselves in about 6 years. Businesses get additional tax incentives and have about a 4 year pay back right now in NJ.

Core components using tier one generic product that is certified to high standards and come with substantial performance warranties:
Solar Panels (25yr warranty) ~$0.70/watt
Inverters (10 yr warranty)    ~$0.40/watt
Rack (5yr warranty)             ~$0.38/watt

Core components using top tier name branded product with highest standards and efficiencies:
Solar Panels (25yr warranty)  ~$1.18/watt
Inverters (20yr warranty)      ~$0.48/watt
Rack  (10yr warranty)           ~$0.45/watt  

There are cheaper products available, but everything I use falls into those 2 categories because I only use products that have been tested and certified to very high standards and are compatible for connection with the public utility grid. These days panels with performance irregularities and esthetic defects can be purchased for ~$0.25/watt. I've also seen a few auctions for used high quality modules ~$0.38/watt. But the incentives in my area only apply to new product.  

[Raimonn]

Nice project, the problem of solar energy is always the battery cost, in your case you don't need that because your company buys back the excendent of kw. I would like this system for my country, here the legislation is against new technologies and clean energy the electric lobby is working hard against this system.

[philipma1957]

Nice project, the problem of solar energy is always the battery cost, in your case you don't need that because your company buys back the excendent of kw. I would like this system for my country, here the legislation is against new technologies and clean energy the electric lobby is working hard against this system.

yeah USA is on a state to state basis.

NJ is for it as our location suffers from coal powered power plants.

If you look at NJ on the  maps

Highway 195 runs east to west across the state.

follow that  highway west  and 23 of the 40 worst polluting power plants (in usa) are directly on that line.

SO winds in USA blow west to east and most of the pollution travels from the midwest to the Atlantic Ocean, but when ever NJ gets Ocean breezes east to west all the coal pollution drops on us. So NJ tries to not have any dirty power plants within its borders. Thus better solar subsidies.

[notlist3d]

Yes NJ has a performance incentive in place for solar and other non polluting energy technologies. It's about $250/mgh right now.

Residential roof mount solar systems are about $3/watt installed in NJ. And typically pay for themselves in about 6 years. Businesses get additional tax incentives and have about a 4 year pay back right now in NJ.

Core components using tier one generic product that is certified to high standards and come with substantial performance warranties:
Solar Panels (25yr warranty) ~$0.70/watt
Inverters (10 yr warranty)    ~$0.40/watt
Rack (5yr warranty)             ~$0.38/watt

Core components using top tier name branded product with highest standards and efficiencies:
Solar Panels (25yr warranty)  ~$1.18/watt
Inverters (20yr warranty)      ~$0.48/watt
Rack  (10yr warranty)           ~$0.45/watt  

There are cheaper products available, but everything I use falls into those 2 categories because I only use products that have been tested and certified to very high standards and are compatible for connection with the public utility grid. These days panels with performance irregularities and esthetic defects can be purchased for ~$0.25/watt. I've also seen a few auctions for used high quality modules ~$0.38/watt. But the incentives in my area only apply to new product.  

Thanks for putting together such a good list on price.  What do you calculate on time to ROI  on your setup?

It's super impressive just curious with you being a expert in the area what your time is till it's paid off from usage.

[nhando]

OMG - He said Business pay back period is like 4yrs.  That is just too too sick!  6 yrs for residential seems to match MA which is also outstanding.  I'm sure Philip's ROI period is even shorter as they installed it themselves vs pay big cost for installation.

I had mine priced out and it will take over 10 yrs for payback so I backed out.  Love Solar.

[hawkfish007]

OMG - He said Business pay back period is like 4yrs.  That is just too too sick!  6 yrs for residential seems to match MA which is also outstanding.  I'm sure Philip's ROI period is even shorter as they installed it themselves vs pay big cost for installation.

I had mine priced out and it will take over 10 yrs for payback so I backed out.  Love Solar.

nhando,

if you buy your own panels (from eBay wholesaler) and hire your own C-10 contractor, you can lower your ROI period to 4-5 years. I lowered mine to 5 years compared to 10+ years for Solar City, Verengo etc., Grape Solar on Costco was a little shorter.  You can find a local installer at www.solarreviews.com .

Edit: with 30% Federal Tax Credit and selling excess production back to utilities, ROI is even shorter.

[buysolar]

Thanks for putting together such a good list on price.  What do you calculate on time to ROI  on your setup?

It's super impressive just curious with you being a expert in the area what your time is till it's paid off from usage.

I financed the whole thing (with low interest financing) so ROI is immediate. I actually am cash flow positive from day 1 with this size system using a 10yr low interest loan.