Why Socialism is the key

[Fatman3001]

Cool thread!

Can't follow you all the way there Mowgli, but it's refreshing to see someone in Bitcoin who's not a right wing nutter.

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[1714904585]

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[cjmoles]

I was just pointing out some common facts that any University educated person in the US already understands.

Actually you posted mostly false statements and unfounded opinions.

An actual fact would be something more like "The majority of university professors have no business experience."

Wow, I wasn't aware of that fact.  Okay, in light of that new information I am going to have to retract my position that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and I am going to have to adopt your understanding that the poor have too much money and the rich don't have enough.  You are too bright for me; therefore, I concede. You win....good luck with your investments.

[BARR_Official]

You can say "the poor are getting poorer" as many times as you want,
but it's still the same lie every time you say it.

The poor are getting richer.


http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/poor-getting-richer

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/11/more-on-us-poor-getting-richer-envy-of.html

http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2015/11/18/poor-getting-richer-faster-than-the-rich

[Pab]

The only thing killing socialism is greed. Greed and corruption.agree very much demoracy agree we have false
democracy but if you will nationalise you will kill economy you will even kill socialism,nationalism
nationalise it worst thing i know that very well

[romero121]

The only thing killing socialism is greed. Greed and corruption.agree very much demoracy agree we have false
democracy but if you will nationalise you will kill economy you will even kill socialism,nationalism
nationalise it worst thing i know that very well

That's what exactly happening. The false socialism is followed in countries where socialism is followed. Only change can be made by good leaders who has the mind to work for the country rather than working for his fellow family and friends

[DeDordtenaar]

countries that have the socialization of society. will be to survive the brunt of the problem.

[mOgliE]

1) Why would a venture capitalist pay a laborer to create a product that the capitalist is going to sell for the same amount it cost to produce it?

People can't sell things for less than they cost, or they quickly end up with nothing.
If they don't make money, they can't keep working.


....


You think rich people get their money from poor people.

If that doesn't sound like a joke to you, then you have serious problems.

Ladies and gentlemen, I consider my point as proven. As you can see this fellow seems to believe rich people get there money from some where else than poor people (probably from their own assholes who know?) and he doesn't seem to be aware that people are actually ending up with nothing but survival food all around the world.

If you think the same please just pass through and vote for Trump. You've been brainwashed already.

[mOgliE]

--snip--

I was just pointing out some common facts that any University educated person in the US already understands. I have no opinion on the subject....

And, as far as the social programs that the rich put in place: they put them there for they're own protection!  Do you think that police are hired to protect the poor?  Or, welfare programs are in place because the poor get paid well?  Or, prisons are built to house investment bankers?  Police are hired to stop the poor from slapping the shit out of the rich and taking back their money!  Welfare programs are in place to appease the unemployed so as to maintain a larger labor pool!  And, prisons are built to house those who disagree with the system!

Don't agree with the tax system?....don't use the highways, don't bitch when your water is polluted, don't call the cops when a hood rat threatens to take your stuff, and don't complain when you're city is bombed!

I'm not directing any of this at you specifically....I'm just trying to illustrate a situation that I think we're over simplifying.  Believe me, I have no opinion....I have more than I will ever need thanks to the free market.  I just think it's important to point out facts rather than chase delusions.  The world is constantly at war!  There is a huge global wealth disparity.  And, there is a controlling population of over privileged people who are too distant from global reality, too caught up in there baser daily activities, and too arrogant to listen to facts.

There are no easy questions, no perfect solutions, and no reasonable expectations that people will begin to be fair with one another within the context of our current global economy.

Why was bitcoin conceived? Was it conceived to concentrate wealth or redistribute wealth? How does it fit into our current global economy?  Things are getting BIG!  We need to  start thinking on a macro-scale rather than confine our thinking to our micro-realities! You want to turn a profit off of bitcoin? Embrace its global potential!

Interesting to see you having such a good understanding of our current system but still not being a convinced socialist

I do hope though that this thread interested you, and made you consider the alliance of direct democracy and socialism which would be, for me at least, the best solution I can come up with.

Even if as you said there is no perfect solution, that's for sure. And I've got no doubt someone one day will come up with something even better!

[yugo23]

You can say "the poor are getting poorer" as many times as you want,
but it's still the same lie every time you say it.

The poor are getting richer.

So now basic propaganda?

Bravo! Your graphs show that poor earn more $ every year! Does that make them richer?

No. Why not? Because if the wages go up, THE PRICES TOO!

OMG you just basically FORGOT INFLATION!!! How can you conclude anything if you don't take into account that things get more and more expensive???

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/oct/02/poor-richer-poverty-living-standards

Oh and here is a small article about Wealth concentration, seems like you need some reading and education!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_concentration

[yugo23]

Do you actually understand that since the beginning he's talking about a direct democracy? Which means there is no "rulling class" or "government monopoly" as the government is the people?

In a Voluntarist, Free Market society private property and individual rights are the foundation. If you and I were both living in a Voluntarist society, you would have every right to go buy some land, gather your friends and go live in your own little Socialist state. Everybody in within that geographical area could pay taxes, get free stuff, and participate in a Democracy. Personally, I would see no harm in that and although I don't necessarily want to live there, I'd respect your choice.

I'm ok with that. It's more or less already what's happened considering the ideological fracture between Europe and USA.

[BARR_Official]

You can say "the poor are getting poorer" as many times as you want,
but it's still the same lie every time you say it.

The poor are getting richer.

So now basic propaganda?

Bravo! Your graphs show that poor earn more $ every year! Does that make them richer?

And their lifespan is twice as long.

I'm sorry you hate the truth and freedom.

[Laosai]

You can say "the poor are getting poorer" as many times as you want,
but it's still the same lie every time you say it.

The poor are getting richer.

So now basic propaganda?

Bravo! Your graphs show that poor earn more $ every year! Does that make them richer?

And their lifespan is twice as long.

I'm sorry you hate the truth and freedom.

Hmm... Just breaking in to say that life expectancy has nothing to do with income for first, and second life expectancy isn't increasing anymore and hasn't increase in a significant amount for a few decades.

[jjoorriissjjuuhh]

But I dont want to share my btc with others, they are mine and mine alone 

[BARR_Official]

Hmm... Just breaking in to say that life expectancy has nothing to do with income

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

life expectancy isn't increasing anymore

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

[Laosai]

Hmm... Just breaking in to say that life expectancy has nothing to do with income

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

life expectancy isn't increasing anymore

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

I'm sorry you can't make the difference between correlation and causation.

[BARR_Official]

Hmm... Just breaking in to say that life expectancy has nothing to do with income

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

life expectancy isn't increasing anymore

I'm sorry you can't read the graph

I'm sorry you can't make the difference between correlation and causation.

I'm sorry you think "correlation" means "has nothing to do with"


And also that you don't care about making life better for poor people.

[cooldgamer]

I don't think complete socialism is the key, but I do think we need to get much closer to it than the United States has now.  Things like healthcare and higher education shouldn't be things that the poor should have to worry about.

We won't be able to truly flourish as a country until the necessities are taken care of so our best and brightest minds can rise to the top, and nobody should die due to a lack of money while others could afford a whole damn hospital.

[Laosai]

I don't think complete socialism is the key, but I do think we need to get much closer to it than the United States has now.  Things like healthcare and higher education shouldn't be things that the poor should have to worry about.

We won't be able to truly flourish as a country until the necessities are taken care of so our best and brightest minds can rise to the top, and nobody should die due to a lack of money while others could afford a whole damn hospital.

There is nothing as "complete socialism".

Socialism is just an ideaology. The idea of a country where everyone helps those who are in need of course, but that's not the most important. Socialism is essentially about redistribution of wealth, and it's up to you to decide how far you have to go in redistribution.

[cjmoles]

Excellent discussion....It really demonstrates how much people understand how their own societies work within the broader global society!  If we simplify everything we're discussing here into one world, and we consider the distribution and consumption of resources, then even the lesser educated individuals could appreciate the fact that it is not possible for everybody to get richer at the same time.  Our global resources are limited, so when one receives more (the very rich), others get less (the very poor)....simple math!

Now, none of this discussion has taken into account that "we" as a world "people" are depleting the earths resources and polluting the planet with our consumptive behaviors. We're gonna have to start looking for another planet if we keep it up.  We need to come together and start treating our planet's resources with a mutual respect....greed is killing earth!

[BARR_Official]

that it is not possible for everybody to get richer at the same time.

So you can't read charts, and you are unfamiliar with reality.

when one receives more (the very rich), others get less (the very poor)....simple math!

I usually don't like to call people idiots.





When people are allowed freedom, everyone gets richer.  It has happened all over the world.

When people are not allowed freedom, everyone gets poorer.  It has happened in every communist country.

Just look at the difference between North Korea and South Korea -
they were the same country, with the same language, culture, and ethnic group.
They were separated into two countries which do not trade with each other,
so it's not the South's fault that people are starving in the North. 

Wealth comes from productivity, not from poor people who have nothing.
When everyone is more productive, everyone can get wealthier.
When everyone is less productive, everyone can get poorer.

We now have more wealth in the world than what existed 100 years ago.
Therefore, some of our wealth has been created recently.
Therefore, it wasn't taken away from anyone.