Why Socialism is the key

[Laosai]

It's incredible, truly amazing how Americans have been totally brainwashed by capitalism.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.

People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.

Here is a good article explaining why taxes are important:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/03/its-not-just-you-americans-are-actually-still-getting-poorer/

I'm sorry but there is nothing to answer to people comparing socialism and Athila... You'r doomed I'm really sorry for you.

I`m not american and i dont like socialism.

What is going on over there is not capitalism it has been dominated by huge corporations for hundreds of year now.

Capitalism can only be small and medium sized, not giant corps running it.

I`m sorry I have plenty of posts here debunking socialist economy, start reading here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5373.2360

I`ve posted there enough, and made socialists cry because their logic was completely debunked.

AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHOUT THE STATE INTERFERING???

How do you ensure that companies keep the small sizes???

For god I fucking agree on a small size capitalism! That would be a good thing too and maybe even better than socialism! But HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT?

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[Laosai]

I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.

But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?

That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.

Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...

Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!

[Laosai]

WTF are you talking about it's already a free market!

It's not a fucking free market, damnit socialists are very illiterate, almost every socialist I argued with cant comprehend the difference between a free market and a government regulated economy.

When you have 10,000 pages of regulation its not a free market, got it?

Ok so you want something with like no rule at all? Oo
Damn... And what will prevent the food industry to sell you only low quality and OGM full food as only 10 companies control everything? They just have to agree between them. What will prevent telecom companies to forbid you to use internet for bitcoin for example? As only 3 companies control everything.

What are you talking about? What would be the steal in taking a private company owned by 3 persons and give it back to the people?

Because it's not theirs. Why dont you give all your bitcoins back to the 'people'?

Ok so the fact that those 3 persons stole the business through corruption and manipulation is no problem?

Whaou that's really an amazing reasonning. Please explain me how we could lose money with Highways? --'

Those are small things, I`m talking about factories and businesses.

How are you going to micromanage an economy by the government when that business was run by competent people before?

You hire ☭☭comrade commissars☭☭ to manage the ☭☭people's factory☭☭? Fuck that, it has already been proven that that system fails.

More corrupt government bureocracts... nice... what can i say.

Again you're confusing socialism with communism... But I suppose it was predictable... Yeah it's exactly what would happen... Government burocrats everywhere... Cause the state couldn't at all just own it and regulate it while letting it be managed by competent people exactly like a normal company? If the state owns it it can only finish with red everywhere and burocrats!

Wanting to stop corruption and wealth concentration... Yeah truly a crime...

Yes by stealing and looting, that is a crime actually, but nobody cares when it's on the behalf of the 'people' right?

So I`m allowed to win 1 million $ on the lottery, but if I win 2, I have to share it with the 'people'?

Wait a fucking second, I already do that, its called income tax, and its disgusting.

Perfect if you're ok with the wealth concentration and the rising poverty of your country then do nothing!

[Laosai]

AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHOUT THE STATE INTERFERING???

How do you ensure that companies keep the small sizes???

For god I fucking agree on a small size capitalism! That would be a good thing too and maybe even better than socialism! But HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT?

By shrinking the state, the limited government concept of libertarianism, you seriously need to read up on that.

Companies can hardly expand if you have balance of power, and balance of power you achieve by frictionless competition, and no interference in the system.

The market is a delicate system, and if you interfere in the market with the might of the state, it is like dropping a meteor in a lake and complaining about the water not being calm.

Remove government interference from the economy, and the economy slowly calms down, (people become equal even by socialist standards), like a lake's surface in a sunny day.

Dumb as hell. Dumbest idea I ever heard.

What you're saying is actually not only a nonsense but also incredibly dangerous.

Imagine we stop any kind of regulation tomorrow. You know what would happen?
I'll tell you: Big companies would CRASH DOWN the smaller ones. Nothing else.

[Laosai]

Remove government interference from the economy, and the economy slowly calms down, (people become equal even by socialist standards), like a lake's surface in a sunny day.

People become equal?

Ok dude, you know what, explain me how someone coming from a poor family with his two parents working but barely earning enough to eat can become equal with high class kids. Explain me how a low income kid can succeed with education costing 200k$.

Just explain me that and I'll walk with you and get rid of socialism. Period.

[Laosai]

What you all seem to forget is about a simple fact.

In a "free of tax" country, there is no police, no health care and no education. At least for the majority.

You're actually all fighting for a world in which only 10% of the population would get an education, the 90% being too poor to afford it... And you find socialism disgusting?

[Laosai]

Ok so the fact that those 3 persons stole the business through corruption and manipulation is no problem?

That is problem, but most businesses now do contracts with the state, and that is how their corruption exists.

1)Politician gets in office
2)His friend opens up a business
3)Politician gives contracts to his friend from public money
4)They split the profits

This is what happens everywhere in the world, and these businesses would close down immediately once they dont get more funding.

How to stop politicians from becoming corrupt? You cant.  You should just not feed them.

The less public money they have, the less they can steal, as simple as that.

That would be totally erased by direct democracy. There would no longer be any kind of corruption. And that's why I agree with you socialism or even government can't be good for the people without direct democracy.

Again you're confusing socialism with communism... But I suppose it was predictable... Yeah it's exactly what would happen... Government burocrats everywhere... Cause the state couldn't at all just own it and regulate it while letting it be managed by competent people exactly like a normal company? If the state owns it it can only finish with red everywhere and burocrats!

Socialism will become communism:

"The goal of socialism is communism." -- Vladimir Lenin ☭☭

I know more about leftist ideas than you do, that is why I oppose it.

Oh because if Lenine said it it must be true? Funny a non communist thinks something like this ^^

Lenine is 70 years old philosophy. We saw. We learnt. We know now that communism brings nothing. We can restrain socialism to... Well socialism.

Perfect if you're ok with the wealth concentration and the rising poverty of your country then do nothing!

No I am not, and I do my best to help.

I support bitcoin, which would be the moral way of 'redistributing'  wealth, by not being exposed to inflation.

Inflation is the biggest wealth redistributor and its stealing from your pocket and giving it to banks.

I disagree with this but at least we both agree on the necessity to simply destroy banks ^^

Dumb as hell. Dumbest idea I ever heard.

What you're saying is actually not only a nonsense but also incredibly dangerous.

Imagine we stop any kind of regulation tomorrow. You know what would happen?
I'll tell you: Big companies would CRASH DOWN the smaller ones. Nothing else.

Yes unfortunately you are right here, the regulations are so embedded in the system that its hard to remove them.

But it can still be removed slowly, and phased out into market self-regulation.

It cannot happen over night, but over a few years its doable.

It's not really regulation. Simply power of an elite over the people.
But anyway it's too late. Leaving the market alone would simply crush us all. It would be a complete suicide, it would never "slowly remove it". Your idea was a good one 100 years ago, and maybe we should have done it. But now it's too late.

[Laosai]

Sigh...

You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...

But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!

What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.

It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.

Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.

[RealBitcoin]

Sigh...

You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...

But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!

What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.

It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.

Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.

I`m not denying that, however, the strongest ones can lift up the weak ones too.

You can create green energy, abundance of necessities at cheap price, great inventions that help humanity progress and make it better for everyone.

Or you can build atomic bombs and war machines.


Both systems are ruled by the strongest, but I ask you which one is more preferable for humanity??

[Laosai]

Sigh...

You're for a country of liberty of "opportunity"...

But liberty of opportunity is useless if you don't give people the means to use it!

What you want to do is to let everyone do whatever they want.
But if you do this, there is NO REASON for rich families to make sure poor people will have the chance to get an education.

It would simply make it easier for everyone to keep the poors under the water that's all.

Libertarian economy is simply Anarchy. And Anarchy is the rule of the strongest.

I`m not denying that, however, the strongest ones can lift up the weak ones too.

You can create green energy, abundance of necessities at cheap price, great inventions that help humanity progress and make it better for everyone.

Or you can build atomic bombs and war machines.


Both systems are ruled by the strongest, but I ask you which one is more preferable for humanity??

Yeah sure. And I'm the one living up in my dream?

I prefer a socialist direct democracy for a simple reason: the weaks ones are the most numerous, and direct democracy compensate this weakness.

[BARR_Official]

It's incredible, truly amazing how Americans have been totally brainwashed by capitalism.
Capitalists did indeed an AMAZING job here.

People are actually defending them... And with incredible violence and agressivity. They don't even understand how they've become slaves.

A slave has limited freedom, limited personal property rights, and is not allowed to keep what he works for.

He also believes that he should "keep his place" and that he is not important as an individual.

Sounds like someone living in a socialist country.

[doublemore]

I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.

But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?

That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.

Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...

Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!

Both have pros and cons, companies act logically in some ways and will adapt well.  Govs can act illogically but can also provide some moral protection.  Really depends on your life, your age and the situation.

[MedaR]

Which is why it's important to maintain a direct democracy, avoiding a small elite to take control of socialist principle and thus restauring the "good old communism" as you say

Yes but democracy is nothing more than a shield for  free market economy,
which destroying whole world with greed for power and resources.
This is why we must implement some principles from socialism to democracy.
Family, workers, kids, must be protected from greed of bankers and multinational corporations.
Only mixing few elements from democracy and socialism we can find nearly perfect system for today people needs.

If you ask me i'm ready for Venus project,  and resources based economy.

[valta4065]

Which is why it's important to maintain a direct democracy, avoiding a small elite to take control of socialist principle and thus restauring the "good old communism" as you say

Yes but democracy is nothing more than a shield for  free market economy,
which destroying whole world with greed for power and resources.
This is why we must implement some principles from socialism to democracy.
Family, workers, kids, must be protected from greed of bankers and multinational corporations.
Only mixing few elements from democracy and socialism we can find nearly perfect system for today people needs.

If you ask me i'm ready for Venus project,  and resources based economy.

Hmm... I understand your love for the Venus project but the problem with it is we still don't have a technology that can produce sustainable energy. So you just can't do it.

[MedaR]

Hmm... I understand your love for the Venus project but the problem with it is we still don't have a technology that can produce sustainable energy. So you just can't do it.

Not for now, but we have a lot to learn and to improve ourselves as society.
Technology will come but what will happen if we are not ready yet?

We all wasting our precious time, we could be more creative and useful if we stop working for money..
 This economic system killing everything human within.

We are still in dark ages if you look at whole picture.
Wars, hunger, hate, religions , money , blood..

[yugo23]

I think there is a problem here. Most of you think that it's not good to see the state controlling things. I'm ok with that.

But if the state isn't in control, how do you ensure that the companies won't take the control?

That's exactly what's currently happening in our world.

Look at the multinational corporations! Look at food industry, Google, Apple...

Yeah freedom is better, but I'd rather see my freedom reduces by the government than by the companies!

Both have pros and cons, companies act logically in some ways and will adapt well.  Govs can act illogically but can also provide some moral protection.  Really depends on your life, your age and the situation.

Yeah of course if your in your 50's and have already succeeded in life no reason to go for socialism!

Which is also why old people shouldn't have the same weight while voting...

[iv4n]

I lived in socialism, before changes people smiled, almost everyone had work, people was happy. And now..? Older generation is disillusioned, younger generation embraced new "values". Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I would think differently if I never felt socialism and I have 18 years old again.

[craked5]

I lived in socialism, before changes people smiled, almost everyone had work, people was happy. And now..? Older generation is disillusioned, younger generation embraced new "values". Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I would think differently if I never felt socialism and I have 18 years old again.

Here you get it brother. They don't know what they've lsot so they don't understand how important socialism is.
It's about everyone helping each other. It's about everyone rising together.
But no they prefer competition. They'll die fighting each other.

[bitbunnny]

Like every other system socialism has good and bad sides. It was often related to comunism and that is the reason why people have negative opinon about it but in its substance I don't think that its a bad system. It should be modified or let say "modernised" in some way to be implemented in the modern society. I have also lived in socialism and don't have bad memories about it at all, although I'm aware that it was far from ideal. 

[yugo23]

Like every other system socialism has good and bad sides. It was often related to comunism and that is the reason why people have negative opinon about it but in its substance I don't think that its a bad system. It should be modified or let say "modernised" in some way to be implemented in the modern society. I have also lived in socialism and don't have bad memories about it at all, although I'm aware that it was far from ideal. 

Exactly!

Socialism doesn't mean you're not allowed to work for yourself. It doesn't mean everything you build will be seize by government. Simply that parts of what you earn will be taken to pay up for the roads, the health care, social welfare and EDUCATION!

How can anyone think it's a bad thing to pay for education? ><

Everyone will benefits from a better educated country!