Why Socialism is the key

[Fatman3001]

If you take my property from me it's called theft and it's morally wrong. Agree? Yes or No?

Depends on if he has a legal basis for doing so. This can be had if he's lent you some money and you won't/can't pay him back, if you've caused damage and refuse to compensate or repair what's damaged, or if you haven't paid your taxes.

Lol, for fucks sake that why I explicitly said " If you take MY PROPERTY...".  Taking back something that was originally yours is not theft. Now go ahead and answer my questions.

It might have been your property. He might have taken your car, your TV or something else with the potential value to cover what you owe. With the backing of the courts of course.

But it's good to see you don't object to tax collection.

[1714921272]

1714921272

[valta4065]

I think I lost most of my faith in humanity in this thread... This is all pathetic...

I'm still waiting for any of you all capitalists pigs to explain Laosai how you can give everyone an education without taxes and socialism!

But you all freaks believe that in some kind of magical way everything will work out?

[valta4065]

So what will prevent big rich guys to oppress you? They got the money so they'll just use their power to put you down.

Very simple, competitive markets limit power. Giant corporations don't just appear out of nowhere. I understand it's hard to strip away the layers of complexity, when we were all born into the present situation. Businesses grow because they are providing a valuable service to their customers, who (in a free market) CHOOSE to do business with them. Does Apple hold a gun to your head when you buy an iPhone? Nope. On the other hand I will have a gun held to my head if I choose to not do business with the local or federal governments when they provide me service that I don't ask for.

Taxation = Coercion
Buying a product from a business out of your own free will = Freedom.

Funny. You're saying that without rules or taxes, in a free market, everyone would be equals.

Well here's a good example: there is no rule about internet in 99% countries. Why is Google dominating and killing everything else so much then?

[valta4065]

AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHOUT THE STATE INTERFERING???

How do you ensure that companies keep the small sizes???

For god I fucking agree on a small size capitalism! That would be a good thing too and maybe even better than socialism! But HOW DO YOU CONTROL THAT?

By shrinking the state, the limited government concept of libertarianism, you seriously need to read up on that.

Companies can hardly expand if you have balance of power, and balance of power you achieve by frictionless competition, and no interference in the system.

The market is a delicate system, and if you interfere in the market with the might of the state, it is like dropping a meteor in a lake and complaining about the water not being calm.

Remove government interference from the economy, and the economy slowly calms down, (people become equal even by socialist standards), like a lake's surface in a sunny day.

Hey buddy, got a question for you:

Funny. You're saying that without rules or taxes, in a free market, everyone would be equals.

Well here's a good example: there is no rule about internet in 99% countries. Why is Google dominating and killing everything else so much then?

[RealBitcoin]

Hey buddy, got a question for you:

Funny. You're saying that without rules or taxes, in a free market, everyone would be equals.

Well here's a good example: there is no rule about internet in 99% countries. Why is Google dominating and killing everything else so much then?

Because they got huge investments and fundraisers from stock market or other loans.

It ties into the banking system, and if I cant get a fundraiser, but a big company can, that is not equal.

In a free market, everyone can get fundraiser for any project, just like now in the bitcoin space. Just go to a bitcoin fundraiser site and get any funds or loans your business needs.

In the fiat economy its heavily regulated.

[yugo23]

Hey buddy, got a question for you:

Funny. You're saying that without rules or taxes, in a free market, everyone would be equals.

Well here's a good example: there is no rule about internet in 99% countries. Why is Google dominating and killing everything else so much then?

Because they got huge investments and fundraisers from stock market or other loans.

It ties into the banking system, and if I cant get a fundraiser, but a big company can, that is not equal.

In a free market, everyone can get fundraiser for any project, just like now in the bitcoin space. Just go to a bitcoin fundraiser site and get any funds or loans your business needs.

In the fiat economy its heavily regulated.

Ok so from what I saw two systems are opposed here:

Socialism system, needing direct democracy to work
Absolute free market, which can't really work cause no police no government no army... No?

But what's funny is that both systems need the end of banks to work!
Seems like we at least can ally on this.

[HeroCat]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

[craked5]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism communism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere.  food for everyone and one of the best healthcare in the world while the USA makes a total and absolute embargo on them making it impossible for them to exchange new goods such as more modern cars.

[BARR_Official]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism communism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere.  food for everyone and one of the best healthcare in the world while the USA makes a total and absolute embargo on them making it impossible for them to exchange new goods such as more modern cars.

It would be dangerous for you to say those lies in Miami where so many Cubans live.

Just for your own good, keep it on the internet.

[Laosai]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism communism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere.  food for everyone and one of the best healthcare in the world while the USA makes a total and absolute embargo on them making it impossible for them to exchange new goods such as more modern cars.

It would be dangerous for you to say those lies in Miami where so many Cubans live.

Just for your own good, keep it on the internet.

I spent 3 months in Cuba. I confirm what Craked5 says.
Cubans are not always happy for sure, communism is a dictatorship. But they still get an incredible healthcare. And food for everyone.

[Laosai]

Hey buddy, got a question for you:

Funny. You're saying that without rules or taxes, in a free market, everyone would be equals.

Well here's a good example: there is no rule about internet in 99% countries. Why is Google dominating and killing everything else so much then?

Because they got huge investments and fundraisers from stock market or other loans.

It ties into the banking system, and if I cant get a fundraiser, but a big company can, that is not equal.

In a free market, everyone can get fundraiser for any project, just like now in the bitcoin space. Just go to a bitcoin fundraiser site and get any funds or loans your business needs.

In the fiat economy its heavily regulated.

Ok then you need absolutely no rule, a free currency of course, like btc.

And how do you protect citizens? I mean what would prevent a company like Google to just hire some mercenaries and kill the potential competitors as there is no police and no government?

[eternalgloom]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism communism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere.  food for everyone and one of the best healthcare in the world while the USA makes a total and absolute embargo on them making it impossible for them to exchange new goods such as more modern cars.

It would be dangerous for you to say those lies in Miami where so many Cubans live.

Just for your own good, keep it on the internet.

I spent 3 months in Cuba. I confirm what Craked5 says.
Cubans are not always happy for sure, communism is a dictatorship. But they still get an incredible healthcare. And food for everyone.

Yeah, they may not have everything we have in the western world, but I do think they are generally pretty happy.
There are other countries where socialism has failed though..

[btcbug]

I think I lost most of my faith in humanity in this thread... This is all pathetic...

I'm still waiting for any of you all capitalists pigs to explain Laosai how you can give everyone an education without taxes and socialism!

But you all freaks believe that in some kind of magical way everything will work out?

I highly doubt you read my posts. If you did, it's clear you didn't think very hard afterwards.


I think people should be educated too. In fact, probably 99% of people would share out opinion on education. Would you agree?

If that's the general consensus throughout the population, then doesn't it seem probable that this opinion would translate into market demand? Surely if 99% of everybody wants education than there will be education provided in a free market. The reason that education would be provided is because EVERYONE would gladly pay for it and so it's a business opportunity. People don't need to give control of the education system to a government monopoly. Thankfully, in most places we still have private schools, however even though I might choose to use a private school, unfortunately I'm still forced to pay for the public education system through taxes.

All you are really implying with your above comment, is that in your mind, YOU can't think of any possible way to educate people without the government forcing them to pay taxes and then giving them an education. That's just intellectual laziness, sorry.

I'm showing you guys the logic and you're saying stupid shit like, "But you all freaks believe that in some kind of magical way everything will work out? "

There is no magic dumbass. Socialists just think they know what's best for everyone else and because they have such good intentions, that means it's morally acceptable to use taxes and force people to pay for their great ideas. Good ideas don't require force. Do I need to tax you to make sure you feed yourself? Some extreme Socialist would probably say yes to that too!

[btcbug]

Just look around in Cuba and you will see socialism in action with shops without food and antique cars everywhere. 

But they probably just need MORE Socialism and it would be better! 

[btcbug]

I spent 3 months in Cuba. I confirm what Craked5 says.
Cubans are not always happy for sure, communism is a dictatorship. But they still get an incredible healthcare. And food for everyone.

Just. Fucking. WOW!


Here's what the black slave owners used to say about slavery:

"My slaves aren't always happy, but I give them food, water and take them to the doctor regularly."

[BARR_Official]

[Barnabe]

Cuba is not a very good example in my opinion since they are under embargo since a few decades now.
A Europe vs US is a much more accurate comparaison since most European countries define themselves as socialist.

[Barnabe]

I spent 3 months in Cuba. I confirm what Craked5 says.
Cubans are not always happy for sure, communism is a dictatorship. But they still get an incredible healthcare. And food for everyone.

Just. Fucking. WOW!


Here's what the black slave owners used to say about slavery:

"My slaves aren't always happy, but I give them food, water and take them to the doctor regularly."

If you look at other countries in the region Cuba is not bad at all, they are ranked as the better country of the Caribbeans in terms of development index (which includes healthcare and education) and are comparable to poor European countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
http://www.antillean.org/caribbean-ranked-uns-human-development-report-2014/

[btcbug]

I spent 3 months in Cuba. I confirm what Craked5 says.
Cubans are not always happy for sure, communism is a dictatorship. But they still get an incredible healthcare. And food for everyone.

Just. Fucking. WOW!


Here's what the black slave owners used to say about slavery:

"My slaves aren't always happy, but I give them food, water and take them to the doctor regularly."

If you look at other countries in the region Cuba is not bad at all, they are ranked as the better country of the Caribbeans in terms of development index (which includes healthcare and education) and are comparable to poor European countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
http://www.antillean.org/caribbean-ranked-uns-human-development-report-2014/

You missed my point so badly it's just laughable.

You are like a slave owner trying to justify slavery by pointing out the fact that your slaves are somewhat healthy and well fed. You are completely ignoring the fact that SLAVERY IS FUCKING IMMORAL BECAUSE YOU ARE STEALING A PERSONS PRODUCTIVE OUTPUT. Can I make it any clearer for you?

If slavery is defined as stealing 100% of a persons production. Then at what percentage is not called slavery? Socialists would argue that at some completely arbitrary percentage it's no longer slavery. So taxing people (stealing their productive output) at 100% is slavery, but at 80% or 50% is somehow magically morally acceptable because people voted for it. I'm just calling BULLSHIT!

[Barnabe]

Calm down man don't get mad over things like this...
What I am saying is that I would rather live in a communist shithole slaveland as you call it, rather than in Haiti in where "entrepreneurship skills" are necessary if you want to keep barely living.

Like it or not, Cuba is where it is today it's thanks to socialist policies (you can't deny this since they kept the same policies for decades).

I think you are just looking at this with a first world person's eye.
You keep saying "MUH FREEDOM" "IM NO SLAVE", because you have enough to eat and have other problems in mind.

In my opinion, the priority in poor countries is safety and food. And Cuba is doing quite well with this, which is not bad at all.

You have to understand that you cannot apply the same criteria to all places.


In a few years, we might see improvement in individual rights in Cuba. That would be the normal evolution, (they begin to care about less important problems since their basic needs are met).