Why Socialism is the key

[RealBitcoin]

Socialism and communism seem good on paper, but in reality there are many problems associated with it. You HAVE to take from some source, and it just feels like you're incentivizing people to work less. The rich can get taxed, sure, but everybody wants to be rich, right? Greed will reign supreme in all cases, and for those who actually achieve that upper-class level, they'll be PUNISHED for the hard work.

The rich never gets taxed and it never will. They have enough offshore schemes and hidden undeground bunkers to hide their wealth tax-free.

What gets taxed is the suckers, the low hanging fruits, the middle class and the poor class.


Socialism is nothing more than forced redistribution of wealth between poor people and other poor people.


Is it a coincidence that poor people earn less every single year? And all taxes impact the poor? Sure it isnt.


I`m not defending the rich here, but you have to admit they are smart enough to not fall for the socialist crap.

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[RealBitcoin]

Capitalism equally seems good on paper, but in reality there are many problems associated with it.
As with any form of bigotry (such as racism, sexism, homophobia), there are advantages to being in the priveleged class that give those an unequal boost at life.

There are many that work longer and harder and receive barely enough to sustain themselves. Look at the use of foodstamps in the USA. How is that anyone working full time should need to rely on govt subsidies to survive?

The Magna Carta, created in 1215, was an important step in creating freedom for the serfs of England. The basic truth in equality of birth has not changed.

The very idea of personal freedom is threatened by both capitalism AND socialism as we know it. There is no freedom when some people are "more equal than others".

Why do you have to tie racism sexism and homophobia with a system? It has nothing to do with it, that just how humans are.

Gay people were stoned to death 5000 year ago, far before capitalism existed. Women were heavily discriminated, and definitely colored people too.

This shit goes on for tens of thousands of years, while  capitalism is only about 200-300 years old.

This is human behaviour, nothing more. And it will be the same in socialism too.

So what you want to send homophobes to gulags? Will that be better solution?

[bumbacoin]

Capitalism equally seems good on paper, but in reality there are many problems associated with it.
As with any form of bigotry (such as racism, sexism, homophobia), there are advantages to being in the priveleged class that give those an unequal boost at life.

There are many that work longer and harder and receive barely enough to sustain themselves. Look at the use of foodstamps in the USA. How is that anyone working full time should need to rely on govt subsidies to survive?

The Magna Carta, created in 1215, was an important step in creating freedom for the serfs of England. The basic truth in equality of birth has not changed.

The very idea of personal freedom is threatened by both capitalism AND socialism as we know it. There is no freedom when some people are "more equal than others".

Why do you have to tie racism sexism and homophobia with a system? It has nothing to do with it, that just how humans are.

Gay people were stoned to death 5000 year ago, far before capitalism existed. Women were heavily discriminated, and definitely colored people too.

This shit goes on for tens of thousands of years, while  capitalism is only about 200-300 years old.

This is human behaviour, nothing more. And it will be the same in socialism too.

So what you want to send homophobes to gulags? Will that be better solution?

to one persperctive there's no difference between one opinion based belief system and another.
sexism and capitalism have more in common than you obviously realise. but there is obviously a lot of difference too

if someone uses sexism to control another person versus capitalism to control another person ??

[bumbacoin]

the basic truth is that many people claim either socialism or capitalism as the only obvious reality

they ignore that many decisions are made that have no relevance to either.

how do you judge/admonish a rapist under a capitalist system? rape is not a crime of capital but rather an ethical issue that must reside within a seperate realm

amusingly i'm finding it hard to come up with an example under socialism, the example governments so far have muddied the socialist waters with extreme shades of facism that make it hard to imagine a true socialist culture.

[OROBTC]

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I'm surprised that COLLECTIVISM (Socialism) is so popular among people interested in Bitcoin.  As told over and over above, Socialism takes by force the property of the productive, and gives it to the governing class (who the bulk) and the lazy (who get some crumbs for political support).

The most fundamental right of anyone is the right to be left alone (unmolested).

[faridkifly]

to me socialism is important.
because i think we live to socialize. we will never live alone. it same to blame

[Fatman3001]

...

I'm surprised that COLLECTIVISM (Socialism) is so popular among people interested in Bitcoin.  As told over and over above, Socialism takes by force the property of the productive, and gives it to the governing class (who the bulk) and the lazy (who get some crumbs for political support).

The most fundamental right of anyone is the right to be left alone (unmolested).

I'm assuming you're talking about taxation. Just about every country levy taxes. It's not unique to socialism. There are some exceptions, but they've got some rather odd justifications that cannot be universalized.

The United States has a higher level of maximum taxation than most countries with a history of social democratic governments.

[ObscureBean]

Socialism is just a concept and like the millions of other concepts out there, it is not perfect, it can only resolve certain existing issues at the expense of creating new ones elsewhere.
No theory out there can eradicate greed and corruption as these are inherent to humans. The most powerful feature of the blockchain is transparency, the fact that a transaction cannot be faked, that anything it records cannot be tampered with. I too think it would be a great step forward if governments started using the blockchain to document every action, transaction or decision they make but that's not going to put an end to corruption and greed. 

[RealBitcoin]

...

I'm surprised that COLLECTIVISM (Socialism) is so popular among people interested in Bitcoin.  As told over and over above, Socialism takes by force the property of the productive, and gives it to the governing class (who the bulk) and the lazy (who get some crumbs for political support).

The most fundamental right of anyone is the right to be left alone (unmolested).

I'm assuming you're talking about taxation. Just about every country levy taxes. It's not unique to socialism. There are some exceptions, but they've got some rather odd justifications that cannot be universalized.

The United States has a higher level of maximum taxation than most countries with a history of social democratic governments.

Socialism creates a ponzi scheme economy.

They all know that the pension system and endless welfare cannot be funded by taxation, so it feeds on itself and creates a ponzi economy.

The financial ponzi scheme is inevitable under a socialist economy.

Unless you want to choose North Korean economics with 50% yearly inflation and wiping out bank accounts every 2 years. At least North Koreans are honest about it, and dont try to hide their ponzi in financial derivatives.

[Barnabe]

...

I'm surprised that COLLECTIVISM (Socialism) is so popular among people interested in Bitcoin.  As told over and over above, Socialism takes by force the property of the productive, and gives it to the governing class (who the bulk) and the lazy (who get some crumbs for political support).

The most fundamental right of anyone is the right to be left alone (unmolested).

I'm assuming you're talking about taxation. Just about every country levy taxes. It's not unique to socialism. There are some exceptions, but they've got some rather odd justifications that cannot be universalized.

The United States has a higher level of maximum taxation than most countries with a history of social democratic governments.

Socialism creates a ponzi scheme economy.

They all know that the pension system and endless welfare cannot be funded by taxation, so it feeds on itself and creates a ponzi economy.

The financial ponzi scheme is inevitable under a socialist economy.

Unless you want to choose North Korean economics with 50% yearly inflation and wiping out bank accounts every 2 years. At least North Koreans are honest about it, and dont try to hide their ponzi in financial derivatives.

I partially agree with this, very often socialist countries make short-sighted decisions (like non-capitalized pensions systems). I don't know if it's ignorance (thinking that the system will be able to grow forever) or entitlement (why would the old generation get to profit from this without any contribution ?).

[Losvienleg]

No, are talking here about the true socialism or the neo-socialism. The difference between both of them lies in the fact that the neo-socialism is a dumb multiculuralist ideology while common socialism isn't. While I can't mind neo-socialism, a well-defented traditional socialist position can convince me.

Socialism means stagnation and a standstill of innovation.

Why? France is socialist since 1789 and is leading in many technological development!

France is far from having been socialist since 1789, really far from that !

[RealBitcoin]

I partially agree with this, very often socialist countries make short-sighted decisions (like non-capitalized pensions systems). I don't know if it's ignorance (thinking that the system will be able to grow forever) or entitlement (why would the old generation get to profit from this without any contribution ?).

Only partially? It can be demonstrated easily that this is absolute truth.

How a pension/welfare/social system works?

1) You pay taxes every month
2) Taxes go into a fund that is a collection of all paid-in taxes
3) Every month the pension/welfare/or other stuff gets paid out of it.

Until the in-payments are higher than the out-payment , the system works.

HOWEVER, when the unemployment is high and wages low, so that less people pay in, and they pay in less, then the balance is shaken. Because more people will need to be paid out from it.

PLAN A) Therefore, you have to raise taxes. If you raise taxes then the system gets even worse, since if you suffocate businesses in more taxes, then wont grow, wont hire more people, and wont expand to generate more wealth, that gets taxed.

So many governments that have any intellect, wont raise taxes because that will put them at an economic collapse.

PLAN B) They dont raise taxes, and just continue to pay out the pension/welfare etc. from the money that is taken in, even if the cashflow balance is negative and the fund is in deficit every single month. THIS IS A PONZI SCHEME, AND MOST GOVERNMENTS CHOOSE THIS OPTION.

YES YOUR PENSION SYSTEM IS A PONZI SCHEME, AND IF YOU ARE YOUNG YOU ARE MOST LIKELY NOT SEEING ANY MONEY FROM THAT, IT WILL COLLAPSE BEFORE YOU GET OLD

Now of course normally the ponzi scheme would collapse after a few years, so they have to rely on the banks and the central bank to hide their ponzi in inflation , endless loans, bank derivatives, financial instruments.

Basically all funds like this issue bonds or take out endless loans of faked credit ratings and other instruments to hide their ponzi in, and thats how the entire global economy works today.

So an economic collapse is around the corner once the ponzi gets out of control, all thanks to the socialist.

[Barnabe]

I partially agree with this, very often socialist countries make short-sighted decisions (like non-capitalized pensions systems). I don't know if it's ignorance (thinking that the system will be able to grow forever) or entitlement (why would the old generation get to profit from this without any contribution ?).

Only partially? It can be demonstrated easily that this is absolute truth.

How a pension/welfare/social system works?

1) You pay taxes every month
2) Taxes go into a fund that is a collection of all paid-in taxes
3) Every month the pension/welfare/or other stuff gets paid out of it.

Until the in-payments are higher than the out-payment , the system works.

HOWEVER, when the unemployment is high and wages low, so that less people pay in, and they pay in less, then the balance is shaken. Because more people will need to be paid out from it.

PLAN A) Therefore, you have to raise taxes. If you raise taxes then the system gets even worse, since if you suffocate businesses in more taxes, then wont grow, wont hire more people, and wont expand to generate more wealth, that gets taxed.

So many governments that have any intellect, wont raise taxes because that will put them at an economic collapse.

PLAN B) They dont raise taxes, and just continue to pay out the pension/welfare etc. from the money that is taken in, even if the balance is negative and the fund is in deficit every single month. THIS IS A PONZI SCHEME, AND MOST GOVERNMENTS CHOOSE THIS OPTION.


Now of course normally the ponzi scheme would collapse after a few years, so they have to rely on the banks and the central bank to hide their ponzi in inflation, bank derivatives, financial instruments.

Basically all funds like this issue bonds and other instruments to hide their ponzi in, and thats how the entire global economy works today.

So an economic collapse is around the corner once the ponzi gets out of control, all thanks to the socialist.

There is a very simple solution to this (applied by some countries). The state could make different pension systems.
The first one would guarantee a minimum to each retired (living on this would be almost impossible), then the state would manage pensions funds to complete the first revenue (only used by willing people).

By doing so you could have a basic income guaranteed to everyone without its sustainability problems (it would be at least easier to manage during recessions since it's not as heavy compared to traditional socialist countries)

[Barnabe]

There is a very simple solution to this (applied by some countries). The state could make different pension systems.
The first one would guarantee a minimum to each retired (living on this would be almost impossible), then the state would manage pensions funds to complete the first revenue (only used by willing people).

That is still a ponzi scheme and it will fail sooner or later

You dont get it. The entire tax system is based on the premise that the economy always grows, because the government expense is always growing, so you need always a growing economy so make the government income growing too.

This will become a problem, and with 40-50% taxes the economy wont grow.

If the taxes are lowered, then the economy will grow, but not faster than the government expenses, and it will create a deficit, which the they will cover from endless loans ---> PONZI SCHEME ECONOMY

A.K.A:  The Sword of Damocles: http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/


The entire system is doomed for failure, because taxes dont work, you cant forcibly redistribute wealth. Money has to be spend on naturally by the forces of the market. Therefore any coercive pension/welfare/tax system has to be replaced by a voluntary insurance system.

It may be a ponzi scheme, but the state may be able to afford it. And it may be cheaper to do this than to let people become homeless and/or sick.

I disagree that the tax system supposes that the economy will always grow. The goal of the state is to have 0 profit (and also 0 loss). There is no point in taxing more than they need and they know it.
The only function of the state is to allow its citizen to live in a fair/safe system, ideally this could be the case if the state knew how to spend money (or if money was very expensive to get from loans for instance). I think the main problem here, is that in the nobody is responsable from its failures.
This means that every politician can do whatever they want without consequences.

I understand your logic, but in my opinion money won't be redistributed by the market. The system is rotten. People/coroprations with money will only get more money, therefore you can not let the market act on its own. Especially now that a very large number of jobs can be automatized.

[Fatman3001]

...

I'm surprised that COLLECTIVISM (Socialism) is so popular among people interested in Bitcoin.  As told over and over above, Socialism takes by force the property of the productive, and gives it to the governing class (who the bulk) and the lazy (who get some crumbs for political support).

The most fundamental right of anyone is the right to be left alone (unmolested).

I'm assuming you're talking about taxation. Just about every country levy taxes. It's not unique to socialism. There are some exceptions, but they've got some rather odd justifications that cannot be universalized.

The United States has a higher level of maximum taxation than most countries with a history of social democratic governments.

Socialism creates a ponzi scheme economy.

They all know that the pension system and endless welfare cannot be funded by taxation, so it feeds on itself and creates a ponzi economy.

The financial ponzi scheme is inevitable under a socialist economy.

Unless you want to choose North Korean economics with 50% yearly inflation and wiping out bank accounts every 2 years. At least North Koreans are honest about it, and dont try to hide their ponzi in financial derivatives.

?

Poorly financed pension systems are not exclusive to countries with socialist governments. One of the things that weighed down GM and Chrysler in the 2008-2009 financial crisis was their massively under financed pension obligations. So they were bailed out with the tax-payers money. Nor do all countries with socialist governments have poorly financed pension systems. In fact, much of Europe have had comprehensive overhauls of their pension systems to make them more sustainable in the future.

As for your admiration of North Korea, I've got nothing.

[GeniuSxBoY]

Socialism: Idea so good, people risk their lives by building boats out of trash in order to escape it.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/01/16/cubans-risked-escape-communism-see-sailed-america/

[Fatman3001]

Socialism: Idea so good, people risk their lives by building boats out of trash in order to escape it.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/01/16/cubans-risked-escape-communism-see-sailed-america/

Hong Kong has been part of communist China for the last 20 years.

[Fatman3001]

Any 5 year old can understand it.

And oddly enough we don't let them run the country.

[GeniuSxBoY]

Fatman. Capitalism made Hong Kong.
Capitalism is the system that made Hong Kong prosperous.
Capitalism is the system that also made America the most prosperous nation on Earth.

The poorest countries like Soviet Russia, Cuba, North Korea all used communism.
Show me any country that was the richest and freest nation on Earth under socialism or communism and I'll give you a sticker.
Spoiler: There weren't any because there is no incentive to work in socialism and there is no freedom because the government controls everything.

Eventually you run out of the money that capitalism created -- that's why socialism sucks.

[Fatman3001]

Fatman. Capitalism made Hong Kong.
Capitalism is the system that made Hong Kong prosperous.
Capitalism is the system that also made America the most prosperous nation on Earth.

The poorest countries like Soviet Russia, Cuba, North Korea all used communism.
Show me any country that was the richest and freest nation on Earth under socialism or communism and I'll give you a sticker.
Spoiler: There weren't any because there is no incentive to work in socialism and there is no freedom because the government controls everything.

Eventually you run out of the money that capitalism created -- that's why socialism sucks.

I'm simply objecting to your and others binary approach to the issue.

Very few proponents of socialism wants communism. Very few countries can be said to be without socialist influence. Hong Kong was a British territory during a time where Britain was strongly left leaning, so they weren't a purely capitalist entity back then either. 

Oh, and btw, The United States is not the most prosperous nation on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita