Why Socialism is the key

[valta4065]

I think I lost most of my faith in humanity in this thread... This is all pathetic...

I'm still waiting for any of you all capitalists pigs to explain Laosai how you can give everyone an education without taxes and socialism!

But you all freaks believe that in some kind of magical way everything will work out?

I highly doubt you read my posts. If you did, it's clear you didn't think very hard afterwards.


I think people should be educated too. In fact, probably 99% of people would share out opinion on education. Would you agree?

If that's the general consensus throughout the population, then doesn't it seem probable that this opinion would translate into market demand? Surely if 99% of everybody wants education than there will be education provided in a free market. The reason that education would be provided is because EVERYONE would gladly pay for it and so it's a business opportunity. People don't need to give control of the education system to a government monopoly. Thankfully, in most places we still have private schools, however even though I might choose to use a private school, unfortunately I'm still forced to pay for the public education system through taxes.

All you are really implying with your above comment, is that in your mind, YOU can't think of any possible way to educate people without the government forcing them to pay taxes and then giving them an education. That's just intellectual laziness, sorry.

I'm showing you guys the logic and you're saying stupid shit like, "But you all freaks believe that in some kind of magical way everything will work out? "

There is no magic dumbass. Socialists just think they know what's best for everyone else and because they have such good intentions, that means it's morally acceptable to use taxes and force people to pay for their great ideas. Good ideas don't require force. Do I need to tax you to make sure you feed yourself? Some extreme Socialist would probably say yes to that too!

I'm just crying in a corner.
Coming back after the weekend to read something like this... Ô tempora Ô mores!

Well little thing. What will happen TO THOSE WHO CAN'T PAY FOR IT??

You're saying "there will be a market" oh no doubt! There is already one in the USA! And you saw what is costs!!!

[valta4065]

Ok then you need absolutely no rule, a free currency of course, like btc.

And how do you protect citizens? I mean what would prevent a company like Google to just hire some mercenaries and kill the potential competitors as there is no police and no government?

Who said no police? You can still have police run privately like a corporation.

Basic policing like keeping the streets clean and emergency 911 calls can be easily done (and possibly more efficiently) than government police.

You know in Japan the subway system has a maximum 1 minute delay and its run by private corps.

When I was last time in government subway they always have a 10-15 minute delay.

So you have to admit that private stuff is managed better, and when you call the cops because there is somebody in your house, then its a matter of life and death if they delay 15 minutes because they forgot to buy their donuts.

And for personal protection, there are always security guards and security services available, you just cant afford it currently, but with low or no taxes I guarantee you it would be as cheap as buying a hamburger.

Ahahahahah xD

Ok Stop, I stop right there! I just can't go on, you won I can't fight people saying things like this! There is nothing more to discuss I give up, just all die alone as you have to.

[valta4065]

I'm with you up to the democracy part, because I don't think freedom is best achieved in a democracy if your version of democracy is that popular ideas are deemed moral because they're the most popular. That doesn't follow logically. If there are no absolute freedoms, democracy is rather worthless in my opinion. So it has to be a democracy that doesn't have the power to infringe on the freedom of the individual, and now we're back to a moral government.

Free education: Steal from educated parents and give it to uneducated ones who did poor choices in their lives because they are dumb

Yeah, so the children don't have to be destroyed by the poor parents choices...

And of course it's only because the parents are dumb. It can't be anything else. Nothing can happen in a life that could explain people are not able to afford education for their children.

[yugo23]

this whole discussion has so many fallacies that it's pointless.
people have been so poisoned by america's view of "socialism" that it has become a gigantic false dichotomy.

ownership of property has been declared as theft therefore capitalism is theft.
taxes and re-distribution has been declared as theft therefore socialism is theft.

you're all wrong.



if you want a serious conversation,
you need to consider how a community could exist without either.

Thank you.

I'm still glad to see that some persons still have a brain.

Though I agree with you it's incredible to see how Americans have been brainwashed!

They compare socialism to nazism Oo

It's like they compare private property to human life!
That's the true victory of capitalism here! They're actually saying it's better to have 20% of the population dying and 75% trying to survive than a mandatory participation... Incredible!

[yugo23]

I`m sure the forced taxation with the threat of jailtime is exactly the definition of armed robbery or extorsion.

Yeah because once police is private and that calling 911 costs you 1k$ armed robbery and extorsion will disappear xD

[yugo23]

Yeah, so the children don't have to be destroyed by the poor parents choices...

And of course it's only because the parents are dumb. It can't be anything else. Nothing can happen in a life that could explain people are not able to afford education for their children.

Actually education has nothing to do with success in life, that is a big misconception.

What matters is good genes that on most part are inherited. So there is a big chance that if the parent is dumb the kid will be too, no matter how much education you give them.

I can't find my words. Do you have anything to support your claims?

Because from my point of view, it seems you don't have the good genes...

Yeah because once police is private and that calling 911 costs you 1k$ armed robbery and extorsion will disappear xD

Yes just like how your internet bill costs 1 million $ / month because it's not managed by the government.

Oh wait it isnt, it's actually very cheap and it costs only a few % points off your monthly income.


Or how your phone bill costs 15 million $/month because its a private company no?

Thanks for pointing this out. You know that before privatisation electricity cost 1.5 times less where I live? You know what happened after privatisation? They fired half people working here, cut all the costs then increased the price.

The "private companies work better" is just a big fat lie. It's not true. The only things that changed after privatisation of energy in my country was a rise of prices, more unemployment and more debt for the states that's all.

[Fatman3001]

Not those things. Grab a book.

Oh I know exactly what it is, but you have denied my arguments without any proof or backing ,so the burden of proof is on you.

It's sort of pointless. I guess I could spend a lot of energy on proving things like "Why butterflies aren't Nazis" as well, but it's not really of interest to anyone.

No, nobody is robbing anyone as a function of normal contemporary socialist policy.

I`m sure the forced taxation with the threat of jailtime is exactly the definition of armed robbery or extorsion.

Nope. You know it isn't. You're just being silly.

[MedaR]

 I suppose that the beaches will best be enjoyed once Communism falls, and the AMERICAN hotel companies get down there and put up nice resorts with safe food...


EDIT: Ah, forget about spending your Bitcoin in Cuba, it's hard enough to get internet access.  

Oh, and be careful with what you say to to locals, you could get them, or even YOURSELF, into trouble.  Cuban jails are worse than the USA's.

Believe you would rather to see big corporate money invested in CUBA, instead help them to find their own way through their problems. Yes they have problems, every country on the world have some problems.

They are eyesore for US government.

Many people today live on the edge of hunger and without any medical help in democracy in AMERICA. Probably they can tell us more about this topic.

You can't show only picture of rich places and people and tell how some system is good. System is measured by how many hungry people do you have on street. Not with internet bandwidth.

[BARR_Official]

Many people today live on the edge of hunger and without any medical help in democracy in AMERICA.

That's not true.

You can't show only picture of rich places and people and tell how some system is good.

Who is doing that, other than you?

What do you say about Cuba now?
https://www.pinterest.com/explore/varadero-cuba/

I say people still die trying to escape Cuba.

Their closest alternatives are Haiti, Mexico, Jamaica, or the Bahamas.

But they go to the United States instead. 

The system you support causes people to kill themselves rather than continue living under your system.
The people living under your system risk their lives to escape and go somewhere that has the system you hate.

Therefore, you are the enemy of the poor and hungry people who want a better life.

[MedaR]

If I take 95% of the money you earn and then I give you back some of that in the form of food, healthcare, etc., well of course anybody can look at that situation and say, "but look, he's fed, and sheltered, so how can you say Socialism is bad?". That is completely missing the point.

The POINT is that they were forced to turnover 95% of their income in the first place! Which means the individual has no choice in how their own money is spent. The government determines that for them and hence why this translates into shitty quality. There is nothing in place to check the excessive wastes of the government because there is no competitive market. It's unsustainable because eventually more and more of that money is siphoned off by the parasites in power, and/or simply wasted on administration.

Socialists do not understand the difference between actual productive work and unproductive work. I can pay somebody to grow food or I can pay somebody to dig a hole, fill it back in, and repeat everyday. Do you see how bureaucracy is sort of like digging the hole everyday? Sure, it creates a job, but the job is fucking useless as far as producing wealth is concerned. When too many people in society are digging the holes we reach the tipping point and the system collapses. Most countries in the world today are nearing that point.

This is simply not true. No one in socialism taking your money that way.
Yes there is some certain amount collected for poor regions in order to build industry and infrastructure.

You think on Communism! This is not the same.

If you think in socialism there is no work and everybody are lazy, you are wrong again!
Many of these socialists countries are very proud countries with higher consciousness of patriotism and almost majority gives more then the average worker in the West.
You forgetting one thing, majority of socialist countries suffered many wars and turmoils maybe if socialism withstand for 200 years will show real face. It is to early to talk about one system after 50 years since its establishment.

[btcbug]

If I take 95% of the money you earn and then I give you back some of that in the form of food, healthcare, etc., well of course anybody can look at that situation and say, "but look, he's fed, and sheltered, so how can you say Socialism is bad?". That is completely missing the point.

The POINT is that they were forced to turnover 95% of their income in the first place! Which means the individual has no choice in how their own money is spent. The government determines that for them and hence why this translates into shitty quality. There is nothing in place to check the excessive wastes of the government because there is no competitive market. It's unsustainable because eventually more and more of that money is siphoned off by the parasites in power, and/or simply wasted on administration.

Socialists do not understand the difference between actual productive work and unproductive work. I can pay somebody to grow food or I can pay somebody to dig a hole, fill it back in, and repeat everyday. Do you see how bureaucracy is sort of like digging the hole everyday? Sure, it creates a job, but the job is fucking useless as far as producing wealth is concerned. When too many people in society are digging the holes we reach the tipping point and the system collapses. Most countries in the world today are nearing that point.

This is simply not true. No one in socialism taking your money that way.

Try NOT paying your taxes. What happens?

[Fatman3001]

If I take 95% of the money you earn and then I give you back some of that in the form of food, healthcare, etc., well of course anybody can look at that situation and say, "but look, he's fed, and sheltered, so how can you say Socialism is bad?". That is completely missing the point.

The POINT is that they were forced to turnover 95% of their income in the first place! Which means the individual has no choice in how their own money is spent. The government determines that for them and hence why this translates into shitty quality. There is nothing in place to check the excessive wastes of the government because there is no competitive market. It's unsustainable because eventually more and more of that money is siphoned off by the parasites in power, and/or simply wasted on administration.

Socialists do not understand the difference between actual productive work and unproductive work. I can pay somebody to grow food or I can pay somebody to dig a hole, fill it back in, and repeat everyday. Do you see how bureaucracy is sort of like digging the hole everyday? Sure, it creates a job, but the job is fucking useless as far as producing wealth is concerned. When too many people in society are digging the holes we reach the tipping point and the system collapses. Most countries in the world today are nearing that point.

This is simply not true. No one in socialism taking your money that way.

Try NOT paying your taxes. What happens?

Taxes aren't unique to socialism. Never has been.

[MedaR]

Who is doing that, other than you?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1370279.msg14113456#msg14113456


China Shanghai
https://chinaluxculturebiz.wordpress.com/tag/chengdu/

I say people still die trying to escape Cuba.
Their closest alternatives are Haiti, Mexico, Jamaica, or the Bahamas.
But they go to the United States instead. 

You can not globalized situation after viewing few pictures.
 CUBA having problems but this wasn't the case when Russia was communist and other half of the world was also.
Now they are isolated and they are not welcomed by many democratic countries.

Probably socialism will fall at the end.

We need something different, and this is not Democracy and free trade.

The system you support causes people to kill themselves rather than continue living under your system.
The people living under your system risk their lives to escape and go somewhere that has the system you hate.
Therefore, you are the enemy of the poor and hungry people who want a better life.

This is not "my system".
You are talking like there will burst flame or war.
Too much drama.

[btcbug]

Taxes aren't unique to socialism. Never has been.

And you guys can tell me this incorrect, because the USA isn't "technically" Socialist, it's considered Capitalist. Well sorry, but that is just bickering about the details and the "proper" implementation, of which there is no such thing.

While you guys are fighting about the correct way to redistribute those tax dollars to best suit your ideal version of Socialism, the rest of us are saying, "Hey guys, we don't care how you divide them because the principle of forced wealth redistribution will never work". That's what the circus of politics is all about. Politicians fooling their sheep into believing their scheme is the correct one. If you believe there is a proper scheme you will always be a sheep and in the end you will be sheared, possibly slaughtered.

I put this video here for you again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

[RealBitcoin]

I can't find my words. Do you have anything to support your claims?

Because from my point of view, it seems you don't have the good genes...

Haha keep on insulting, it wont make your point more valid.

How about study the relationship between genes and IQ and see for yourself:
http://pumpkinperson.com/2014/11/09/hypocrites-who-deny-linear-iq-income-correlation/

Thanks for pointing this out. You know that before privatisation electricity cost 1.5 times less where I live? You know what happened after privatisation? They fired half people working here, cut all the costs then increased the price.

The "private companies work better" is just a big fat lie. It's not true. The only things that changed after privatisation of energy in my country was a rise of prices, more unemployment and more debt for the states that's all.

Cherrypick 1 situation that we dont know anything about, I dont know the circumstances of your situation with the electricity, but it may be just because the companies are forced to deliver the electricity cheaper.

Which is kind of anti-free market, price controls and shit like that. And eventually it will end in disaster as those companies could go bankrupt if their prices are not allowed to freefloat

[RealBitcoin]

Taxes aren't unique to socialism. Never has been.

Yes they are, its the parasite class that demands forced redistribution of wealth.

In a productive economy, everyone would keep what they earn, and everyone would spend on what they want (voluntarly).


The only ones that support taxation are the parasites that are unproductive and want to steal money from the productive people, because they are the only beneficiaries of it.

[MedaR]

Yes they are, its the parasite class that demands forced redistribution of wealth.
In a productive economy, everyone would keep what they earn, and everyone would spend on what they want (voluntarly).
The only ones that support taxation are the parasites that are unproductive and want to steal money from the productive people, because they are the only beneficiaries of it.

This is very cruel conclusion.

I believe socialism is more than taxation of people and stealing money from them.
If you living whole your life in capitalism and democracy then you can't say anything about socialism because you don't know good sides.

Such care for children, for ill and homeless. You won't find people starving on the streets. Everybody must work, they have protection, as worker you don't have to think will you get canceling of the contract.

People are working without stress. They are happy with friends and family don't need expensive cars for enjoying in life.. Traveling, organized workers games with everything for free only money for beer.

Army is something mandatory, you can made friends for life , learn many skills. Move up your boundaries. You cannot imagine such Dignity and Patriotism founded in army. (Without wars in peace).

Best example is EX YU. if we don't count civil war 90s.

[MedaR]

This you can imagine as constant party and enjoying in life..
Yes there is lot of work but there is no stress around everything and everyone working with smile. Because nobody worry about tomorrow how will pay debts or how will kids go to school..
This is very nice if you think about it now, this kind life had my father.
And i know all stories very well and i have many pictures how his life was complemented and beautiful and rich.
And majority of people were modest and happy with this way of life!
Money isn't everything in life.

[GeniuSxBoY]

Price controls lead to shortages because you cannot legislate away the reality of scarcity
#WhySocialismFails

[GeniuSxBoY]

Taxes aren't unique to socialism. Never has been.

Yes they are, its the parasite class that demands forced redistribution of wealth.

In a productive economy, everyone would keep what they earn, and everyone would spend on what they want (voluntarly).


The only ones that support taxation are the parasites that are unproductive and want to steal money from the productive people, because they are the only beneficiaries of it.

Taxes at their most fundamental level are meant to afford the necessary papers, rents, and essentials for government to function properly. Taxes cannot be based on donations because laws will be biased towards the donors. Each individual must have an equal investment, equal stake in the government to have an equal voice. It is not possible to live in anarchy because you would need a government to ensure that government doesn't form-- which negates itself. It is hereby proven that we can't live with too much government and we can't live without it, therefore we must put into place a limited government that benefits the most people by being the most transparent in its prime reason for existing: To guarantee individual's right to life, liberty, and property.