Why Socialism is the key

[Oscoda]

The best thing is that you can do is tell people or friends or family that you can easy use Bitcoin and that it is also very safe.
I hope later that more people will have some Bitcoin and that they are going to use it. That will be so nice later.

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[btcbug]

This is why the debt never has to be repaid, or actually, can't be, and why it doesn't mean anything sinister

I agree with most of what you're saying. The debt was never meant to be paid, nor will it ever be paid.

But the sinister part is that fiat money is highly centralized, the opposite of crypto-currencies. The currencies are left and trusted in the hands of government central banks who manipulate the supply and interest rates based on their own (Keynesian) ideas of how the economy should work. You can't just keep recklessly spending money and printing more of it without facing the consequences.

[cjmoles]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

I cannot imagine how indentured servitude and fractional reserve banking are anywhere near being analogous, but I'd be open to considering your view on it if you write it out. However your overly generalized statement that the rich do not deserve what they have because you've lazily assumed that there's no way it could have been justly derived and therefore it is proper to take it away is an immoral argument because it requires the initiation of force to do so.

All of the money we work for is backed by a debt that will never be paid...the more dollars they issue to pay us for our work, the larger that debt becomes and the more we have to work to pay that debt off.  And who's reaping the rewards?  How is that not indenturement?

Let's first just take your sentence and try to get you to reach a conclusion. "All of the money we work for is backed by a debt that will never be paid." Let's just assume everything about that is true. So what? What exactly do you think that means? How do you think that makes you an indentured servant? Do you think the job you work is because of the central bank and not because you need to perform something of value to the economy in order to eat? Are you under the delusion that you work directly for the central bank, and that you don't have a choice in the matter? Do you think this "debt" means the money in your wallet is owed to someone, or is going to be called in to pay the "debt?" Do you think that the central bank issuing fiat is the reason you have to work or that the work you do is to pay back the central bank's debt? You must think these things, otherwise I can't wrap my head around what you think is the implication for this statement.

Now let's follow through on your premise to a conclusion. Money is issued by debt that cannot be repaid, according to you. So I guess first you're assuming that it needs to be, which isn't true. Fiat is issued through debt, and if they the issuer wanted to collect on the debt, all they'd be doing is devaluing the money they collect. Fiat money is a zero sum game because it is simply a representation of the value of the goods and services in an economy. So it doesn't matter how much money is issued, it doesn't change how much goods and services exist in an economy. If the "debt" can never be repaid, it doesn't matter. Fiat is only representative value anyway. So call in all the loans on the "debt," all the issuer would be doing is collecting worthless paper, and the more they collect the more worthless it is. This is why the debt never has to be repaid, or actually, can't be, and why it doesn't mean anything sinister for the economic system. Goods and services have value independent of fiat. Fiat doesn't give goods and services value, goods and services give fiat value, because fiat is just the means of trade.

I don't have the patience to explain how fractional reserve banking works.  I just assumed that it was an understood practice when I entered this discussion. Here is an animation that does a pretty good job of illustrating the process in an easy to understand format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM


Those who admire our Federal Reserve Banking system but hate the Internal Revenue Service would probably be surprised to know that the same group of bankers were behind the ratification of the 16th Amendment to the US Constitution (http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/1981/5/cj1n1-9.pdf) as were responsible for the creation of Fractional Reserve Banking (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/chapter-3).  Note the years they were signed into law, 1913.

[john2231]

for me socializing is the key to success because when we are socialising. we can be walktrought with someone thats not the same whith our standars. and also socializing is like being part of the 21st century.

[RobinHoodster]

Socialism is so important is this world getting to know new people and make your network even bigger. Without socialism most of us would not even have friends.
It is always good to getting to know new people because you will never know what that person can do for you.

[mrhelpful]

There is a lot of good in socialism, it brings people equal opportunities in the future, and provides them with safety and security. Those opposed to the idea highlight the higher taxation often associated with socialism, but it really just depends how you view it.

If anything it burdens the state with that load of taxation..

Something which I dont think most people are willing to see a increase over.. vs capitalism you pay based on the bracket earned based on certain category youre suited.

[MedaR]

I don't know what people think when they think about socialism. Probably they are scared of work camps and living in communities. But this is not true, this is propaganda. We can see many US movies from 80s about communist Russia and in every movie communists are bad and, more like heirs of Fascist..

[Lokfar]

There is a lot of good in socialism, it brings people equal opportunities in the future, and provides them with safety and security. Those opposed to the idea highlight the higher taxation often associated with socialism, but it really just depends how you view it.

If anything it burdens the state with that load of taxation..

Something which I dont think most people are willing to see a increase over.. vs capitalism you pay based on the bracket earned based on certain category youre suited.

With talking and promoting you can indeed tell your friends to use them Bitcoin and that will be good because they are also going to trust you and that is quite nice.
We have to promote Bitcoin more also and that would be nice for you and Bitcoin itself.

[Vaskiy]

There is a lot of good in socialism, it brings people equal opportunities in the future, and provides them with safety and security. Those opposed to the idea highlight the higher taxation often associated with socialism, but it really just depends how you view it.

If anything it burdens the state with that load of taxation..

Something which I dont think most people are willing to see a increase over.. vs capitalism you pay based on the bracket earned based on certain category youre suited.

With talking and promoting you can indeed tell your friends to use them Bitcoin and that will be good because they are also going to trust you and that is quite nice.
We have to promote Bitcoin more also and that would be nice for you and Bitcoin itself.

Halving will be surely good this year as most of the bitcoiners are expecting the value to be hitting near $800 and even more, hoping bitcoin will cheer up all users and won't leave them in vain.

[cjmoles]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

Sure but that was about 200 years ago, nobody cares about that anymore. Just like nobody cares about Julius Caesar massacring 50,000 galls in his wars of conquest.

But what happens today, every month you are robbed by taxes, so the robbery is in the present and still going on, that should be a bigger concern.

What happened 200 years ago does matter because systems based on corruption are ultimately corrupt....just like logic which is based on unsound reasoning.  One who benefits from the rewards of theft must someday reap the consequences of their actions in return....Those people who were stolen from are still with us, even in the face of attempted genocides....so, will somebody care when they stand up to take back what's theirs?

[mOgliE]

I just find it incredible how some people seems to really believe that "solutions can be found to educate the poors"...

No, or find a solution. Go on, try...

Regulation is not responsible for high price. You know what happens when you open a market and get rid of regulation? Price rises. That's exactly what's happening in whole Europe as we lower regulation. BEcause companies have no interest in lower prices, so they just get together and agree on a very high price that's all!

BElieving anything else is just denying reality...

[cjmoles]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

Sure but that was about 200 years ago, nobody cares about that anymore. Just like nobody cares about Julius Caesar massacring 50,000 galls in his wars of conquest.

But what happens today, every month you are robbed by taxes, so the robbery is in the present and still going on, that should be a bigger concern.

And, may I ask: what is the state of Julius Caesar's empire today?  That is exactly my point!  If society ceases to care about their social structure, then their social structure will decay as a result.

[valta4065]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

Sure but that was about 200 years ago, nobody cares about that anymore. Just like nobody cares about Julius Caesar massacring 50,000 galls in his wars of conquest.

But what happens today, every month you are robbed by taxes, so the robbery is in the present and still going on, that should be a bigger concern.

And, may I ask: what is the state of Julius Caesar's empire today?  That is exactly my point!  If society ceases to care about their social structure, then their social structure will decay as a result.

Though I understand your point, there is still an amount of time from which nobody cares.
Otherwise should we all feel concerned about the genocide of the Neandertals? ^^

[cjmoles]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

Sure but that was about 200 years ago, nobody cares about that anymore. Just like nobody cares about Julius Caesar massacring 50,000 galls in his wars of conquest.

But what happens today, every month you are robbed by taxes, so the robbery is in the present and still going on, that should be a bigger concern.

And, may I ask: what is the state of Julius Caesar's empire today?  That is exactly my point!  If society ceases to care about their social structure, then their social structure will decay as a result.

Though I understand your point, there is still an amount of time from which nobody cares.
Otherwise should we all feel concerned about the genocide of the Neandertals? ^^

Well, that's a whole other topic of debate.  But, I would maintain that the extinction of any species negatively decreases the diversity of our planet in ways which are only just recently being understood.  It may prove to be a big mistake in earth's future developments to have been unsympathetic to the state of the planet's biosphere.  That's a major portion of the problem with today's society.  We are much more concerned with personal short term gains than the long term effects of our actions.  We may be killing our planet, but we don't care because we'll be long dead before the effects of our greed are realized.

[valta4065]

Well, when it comes down to it, it's all just a lie....all of it....on every side!  What we need to do is to take back the power from our "governors" and put the power back into the hands of the "governed."  They are supposed to work for us....not the other way around!

As for force???  The United States was taken from the Native Americans by force and its wealth was created by forced slavery....So, what is claimed to be the property of the wealthy does not belong to them.  The wealth of the United States was built upon stolen property and forced labor.  In fact, one can still claim that the whole system is based on the indenturement of its populace because of fractional reserve banking.

Sure but that was about 200 years ago, nobody cares about that anymore. Just like nobody cares about Julius Caesar massacring 50,000 galls in his wars of conquest.

But what happens today, every month you are robbed by taxes, so the robbery is in the present and still going on, that should be a bigger concern.

And, may I ask: what is the state of Julius Caesar's empire today?  That is exactly my point!  If society ceases to care about their social structure, then their social structure will decay as a result.

Though I understand your point, there is still an amount of time from which nobody cares.
Otherwise should we all feel concerned about the genocide of the Neandertals? ^^

Well, that's a whole other topic of debate.  But, I would maintain that the extinction of any species negatively decreases the diversity of our planet in ways which are only just recently being understood.  It may prove to be a big mistake in earth's future developments to have been unsympathetic to the state of the planet's biosphere.  That's a major portion of the problem with today's society.  We are much more concerned with personal short term gains than the long term effects of our actions.  We may be killing our planet, but we don't care because we'll be long dead before the effects of our greed are realized.

Well, the best way to deal with this is to not make children. Cause all that won't really affect us, it will affect only the next generations.
And you know, what's funny is that all major extinctions until now have proved to be extremely positive. Without major extinctions we would have much less diversity in the current biosphere!

[craked5]

There is a lot of good in socialism, it brings people equal opportunities in the future, and provides them with safety and security. Those opposed to the idea highlight the higher taxation often associated with socialism, but it really just depends how you view it.

If anything it burdens the state with that load of taxation..

Something which I dont think most people are willing to see a increase over.. vs capitalism you pay based on the bracket earned based on certain category youre suited.

Hmm... No, that's socialism. It means people pay tax depending on their revenue. That's the base of socialism on the contrary!

[DashCoinDark]

There is a lot of good in socialism, it brings people equal opportunities in the future, and provides them with safety and security. Those opposed to the idea highlight the higher taxation often associated with socialism, but it really just depends how you view it.

If anything it burdens the state with that load of taxation..

Something which I dont think most people are willing to see a increase over.. vs capitalism you pay based on the bracket earned based on certain category youre suited.

You can tell your friends and family about Bitcoin and than they will also use it because they trust you and that is prefect for Bitcoin and you are making it also more popular.
So we have to promote it more also so we can make Bitcoin more popular and also more acceptable and so we can spend it more.

[FabioDelcatto]

Socialism is key because without it you would not have any friends and I am sure that you would get fired at your job because you are not social.
Being social and interacting with people is so important these days.

[cr1776]

Well, if you like slavery, you'll love socialism. Just because you think you are going to be the master holding the whip over everyone else, doesn't mean it is true and certainly doesn't make it moral.

[OROBTC]

...

"Venezuela" is really all you need to know, just that one word, about Socialism.

Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money, as Margaret Thatcher once said (not exactly, but pretty close).  Socialist systems tend towards larger government, and a large government in almost all cases works very poorly.

Even Socialist paradises like Sweden and France are having problems, as their .govs have no problems about letting in so many Muslim rapefugees...

And I will scream if I hear that term Democratic Socialist again, Vladimir Lenin invented that term, Bernie.