Bitcoin Forum
November 09, 2024, 10:25:33 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Satoshi Roundtable Retreat - 70 top Techies & CEOs - What should be covered?  (Read 9185 times)
aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 12:37:01 AM
 #181

So what are the conclusions of this wanna be something special elite kind of freemasons crap roundtable??

This one was just for a bunch of startups on life support to commiserate and glad hand about how, last weekend, a group of 4 dudes already shook hands on the path for the next 2 years.  Undecided

sorry, thats not what happened last week in hk and its not what happened at the roundtable either.  you're being very negative about a group thats trying to be constructive and alleviate bottlenecks and try and knock a few heads together so we can all 'get on with it' and stop bickering.

bitcoin is an ecosystem of many parts.  miners, exchanges, wallets, devs, retail, wholesale, data, and most important, users.   future direction needs to consider its users and potential users, and keep making improvements that ideally bring the entire ecosystem forwards (in a timely fashion) and shouldn't be decided by small parts of the ecosystem without considering the interests of the other parts.

one of the goals of the roundtable was to involve stakeholders in trying to bring forward a commitment to deal with the scaling issues, and most likely will knowingly kick the can down the road a little bit, because many blocks are full - today - and most people feel like a little breathing space This Year is better than leaving it a whole year before that happens - so that it gives the devs time to find a better technical solution for the future.   There was unanimous agreement that bitcoin needs to scale but not agreement on how quickly.  After a lot of debate, it seemed like the goal converged into one of time-scale.

the handshake from last week in hk had a worst case 'go live' date of mid 2017 for raising the block size (july 2017? i recall).  the roundtable was trying to explore if there was a will and a way to bring that worst case date forwards (perhaps into late 2016, or sooner), and achieved, perhaps with a simpler and less risky implementation at least initially, with further improvements to follow.

there was strong feeling by all but certainly wasn't 100% agreement.   With 80 people there, there certainly weren't 80 opinions.  Most were in one of only a few camps.   some wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater... but most wanted to find a compromise that could let everyone achieve something positive and be happier instead of grandstanding and digging heels into their legacy positions.

there was also agreement on all sides to stop disparaging each other publicly as it helps no one and actually hurts bitcoin.  we all have the same ultimate goal, to make bitcoin successful.. and the nastiness in public forums has to stop (as does the fanboys doing their ddos attacks etc)

The roundtable was VERY useful for everyone concerned and for bitcoin in general, and it should happen more often.   instead of these people sniping at each other on the forums and on reddit, they need to meet, and iron out differences.

And this isn't just a Dev issue.  The actual users, product people, tier 2 people, wallets, exchanges etc... ALL should have a voice.   It would be very wrong if only the core devs decide the future strategy and direction.   stakeholders should have a say in the feature set and strategy (but clearly, since they aren't all techies, they won't design the tech nor define how its achieved)

if you were to somehow liken or simplify bitcoin to a 'company' that makes a product or service...   no company would just have devs doing their own thing in isolation without input and guidance from other areas like the 'market', strategy and biz dev.  a company has a lot of working parts that all contribute to the end product direction and it would be arrogant to think a product can solely be defined by a group of devs, no matter how smart they are (and they are the smartest devs on the planet) - but they still need input from the rest of the virtual parts of the organisation - different types of users of the 'product/service'

a lot of folks worked very hard for a positive outcome, and to try and find space to compromise.  unfortunately, i left early (flight home to london) before the conclusion of the meeting and wasn't present to hear what progress was made.  presumably since there has yet to be an announcement, they're still knee deep in discussion, even after the event.

There were some very helpful characters.  it does bitcoin a disservice to shit on any of them.  Bruce especially.   He did NOT grandstand like you suggest. 




bargainbin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 01:20:28 AM
 #182

So, can you give me a list of agreements reached at Hogwarts Wizarding School Camelot Dungeons and Dragons Satoshi's Demilune whatever that thing was called?
I mean, other than devs agreeing that calling each other names in public is bad form?
aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 01:25:24 AM
 #183

So, can you give me a list of agreements reached at Hogwarts Wizarding School Camelot Dungeons and Dragons Satoshi's Demilune whatever that thing was called?
I mean, other than devs agreeing that calling each other names in public is bad form?

they hired a lovely lady to annotate what was being discussed.  She drew some pretty pictures and wrote some words on big sheets of paper and i believe they plan to publish those so you will see pretty much a good summary of everything that was discussed.

i should also point out that many times during the weekend, the key players (mostly devs) retired to breakout rooms, locked the doors, and had their own small discussions, pretty much like they did at other conferences.  i think this is a good thing as sometimes there are too many voices in the room to get stuff done.   so parts of the weekend were big groups and parts of it were breakouts into small groups.

as i said, i left several hours before the thrilling conclusion, so i still have absolutely no idea if they put the world to rights, or left it the same as it was before (!)

they were still knee deep in discussion when i left.  and maybe they still are.  or maybe they agreed to disagree, and leave the status quo.

the problem with the status quo is that large unhappy contingents become forced to take matters into their own hands, which splits the group.. and we would really like the group to find common ground and stay as one group.
bargainbin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 01:33:23 AM
 #184

^^A simple "no" would've sufficed Undecided
BlindMayorBitcorn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 01:50:56 AM
 #185

So, can you give me a list of agreements reached at Hogwarts Wizarding School Camelot Dungeons and Dragons Satoshi's Demilune whatever that thing was called?
I mean, other than devs agreeing that calling each other names in public is bad form?

they hired a lovely lady

That was almost a story.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
bargainbin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:08:41 AM
 #186

^
Was she bringing up three very lovely girls?
Did all of them have hair of gold, like their mother?
BlindMayorBitcorn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:16:03 AM
 #187

I can't wait for Bruce to return and tell us what of his 8 points he took from this thread. Were we helpful? How helpful? Very helpful?
How much did this lovely lady cost?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:33:50 AM
 #188

Were they all sequestered in rooms discussing what's best for Bitcoin the bank emancipator or what's best for the individual business interests that attended?

I have attended many conferences because they were held in my region. The disappointing aspect of every single one was the lack of interest in the concept of relieving people from the need for a trusted third party. In fact, many of the businessmen in attendance were counting on becoming the necessary link between the user and their money. The whole concept of bastardizing the basic tenet of Bitcoin is so repulsive it makes me want to abandon Bitcoin altogether. I don't need just another replacement bank. The one I use now works just fine.

JayJuanGee
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3892
Merit: 11137


Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:41:59 AM
 #189

I can't wait for Bruce to return and tell us what of his 8 points he took from this thread. Were we helpful? How helpful? Very helpful?
How much did this lovely lady cost?

Maybe I am a little resentful because he did not even acknowledge in this thread my very "insightful" recommended clarifications?

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
BlindMayorBitcorn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:46:45 AM
 #190

I can't wait for Bruce to return and tell us what of his 8 points he took from this thread. Were we helpful? How helpful? Very helpful?
How much did this lovely lady cost?

Maybe I am a little resentful because he did not even acknowledge in this thread my very "insightful" recommended clarifications?

I have a friend who'd like to know why Bruce spent so much energy trying to bounce those talking heads with the web cam while Marshal Long was eating octopus with some retarded lady with a white board. Did you see that?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:47:11 AM
 #191

Were they all sequestered in rooms discussing what's best for Bitcoin the bank emancipator or what's best for the individual business interests that attended?

I have attended many conferences because they were held in my region. The disappointing aspect of every single one was the lack of interest in the concept of relieving people from the need for a trusted third party. In fact, many of the businessmen in attendance were counting on becoming the necessary link between the user and their money. The whole concept of bastardizing the basic tenet of Bitcoin is so repulsive it makes me want to abandon bitcoin altogether.

QuestionAuthority.

honestly, i have no clue what you're on about.

that has nothing to do with any bitcoin conference or meet up.  and nothing to do with the roundtable either.

the people who attend these types of events do so because they want to see bitcoin succeed and feel that meeting other like minded people can help them do that and smooth the rough edges to help make it happen.  decentralisation is the key word.  it was mentioned so often that you almost wish they'd find another word.   very few people in attendance even mentioned their own businesses or what they do in the bitcoin space.  almost all of the conversations are about how to take bitcoin forward - in a general way - so that more people will have the ability to use it, in new and exciting ways.  not only the unbanked.. but also the banked.  fully inclusive.  not even excluding the bankers.  everyone should have access to it.

you make it sound like you dont want money to be used for its primary purpose.  you sound anti business.   money allows people to buy and sell goods and services.    you sound like youre against commerce.    anyone who can help onboard more people into bitcoin is a good thing.  do you think most of the world is going to start using it because its there?   most will need encouragement via goods and services that are easier and cheaper to use than what they use at present.  that requires innovation of new bitcoin businesses for us to on-board the next few million bitcoin users.  and will need some established and successful businesses to be able to on-board the next billion!

if that sickens you, i think you should take up a hobby that doesn't involve 'digital money' because money is mainly used for commerce/business.  get used to it, or find something else to do.   you cant be pro bitcoin and anti business.   makes no sense.




aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:48:22 AM
 #192

I can't wait for Bruce to return and tell us what of his 8 points he took from this thread. Were we helpful? How helpful? Very helpful?
How much did this lovely lady cost?

Maybe I am a little resentful because he did not even acknowledge in this thread my very "insightful" recommended clarifications?

I have a friend who'd like to know why Bruce spent so much energy trying to bounce those talking heads with the web cam while Marshal Long was eating octopus with some retarded lady with a white board. Did you see that?

didn't hear or see any of that.   if it was late on saturday night i was playing poker (and winning... using my patented secret weapon.  i was the only sober one at the card table ;-)
bargainbin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 02:59:04 AM
 #193

... anyone who can help onboard more people into bitcoin ...
>onboard
>onboard
>onboard

aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 03:02:52 AM
 #194

... anyone who can help onboard more people into bitcoin ...
>onboard
>onboard
>onboard



you lost me with your my little pony cartoon
bargainbin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126
Merit: 100



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 03:29:34 AM
 #195

^Of course I did. That's because you use words like "onboard" unironically.
"Oh, how petty!" some might pshaw. And boy oh boy, how wrong they'd be... Boy howdy! Sad
Gleb Gamow
In memoriam
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 06:22:33 AM
 #196

The BATH TOBB Consensus


Were Leroy Fodor, Marshall Long, John Fitzpatrick and Craig Wright locked in some bathroom instructed to not come out till they penned something substantial?
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 07:16:15 AM
 #197

here goes bruce's slides from that friend-only-private-conversation-roundtable:





QuestionAuthority
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393


You lead and I'll watch you walk away.


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 07:56:54 AM
 #198

Were they all sequestered in rooms discussing what's best for Bitcoin the bank emancipator or what's best for the individual business interests that attended?

I have attended many conferences because they were held in my region. The disappointing aspect of every single one was the lack of interest in the concept of relieving people from the need for a trusted third party. In fact, many of the businessmen in attendance were counting on becoming the necessary link between the user and their money. The whole concept of bastardizing the basic tenet of Bitcoin is so repulsive it makes me want to abandon bitcoin altogether.

QuestionAuthority.

honestly, i have no clue what you're on about.

that has nothing to do with any bitcoin conference or meet up.  and nothing to do with the roundtable either.

the people who attend these types of events do so because they want to see bitcoin succeed and feel that meeting other like minded people can help them do that and smooth the rough edges to help make it happen.  decentralisation is the key word.  it was mentioned so often that you almost wish they'd find another word.   very few people in attendance even mentioned their own businesses or what they do in the bitcoin space.  almost all of the conversations are about how to take bitcoin forward - in a general way - so that more people will have the ability to use it, in new and exciting ways.  not only the unbanked.. but also the banked.  fully inclusive.  not even excluding the bankers.  everyone should have access to it.

you make it sound like you dont want money to be used for its primary purpose.  you sound anti business.   money allows people to buy and sell goods and services.    you sound like youre against commerce.    anyone who can help onboard more people into bitcoin is a good thing.  do you think most of the world is going to start using it because its there?   most will need encouragement via goods and services that are easier and cheaper to use than what they use at present.  that requires innovation of new bitcoin businesses for us to on-board the next few million bitcoin users.  and will need some established and successful businesses to be able to on-board the next billion!

if that sickens you, i think you should take up a hobby that doesn't involve 'digital money' because money is mainly used for commerce/business.  get used to it, or find something else to do.   you cant be pro bitcoin and anti business.   makes no sense.

What a load of crap. I can't tell if you're bullshitting me or yourself. They couldn't really give a shit about Bitcoin. Hell, I doubt half of them have even read the whitepaper. The people I see in videos and meet in person believe in success - they're own success. That success has nothing to do with slowly developing a working system and delivering it freely to all takers. VC money doesn't chase humanitarian goals or work toward unseating the current corrupt system. VC money embraces Wall Street and crawls in bed with bankers. The major players in Bitcoin currently look as if all they care about is creating a system that can generate profits as quickly as possible.

Money for you is only about commerce and profit, just as it is for Wall Street. Yes, I am anti-business-as-usual. I don't want a new system if it empowers and enriches the few. I don't agree with a system that needs closed door collusion to make decisions. Try taking some of the wealth of the investors involved and create a no fee, free to use electronic exchange that allows individuals worldwide to free themselves from banks instead of, as you say, including bankers. You sound as if you simply expect Bitcoin to be nothing more than a trendy, edgy, cool alternative to PayPal minus the fraud protection for consumers.

Gleb Gamow
In memoriam
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145



View Profile
March 01, 2016, 08:45:41 AM
 #199

Were they all sequestered in rooms discussing what's best for Bitcoin the bank emancipator or what's best for the individual business interests that attended?

I have attended many conferences because they were held in my region. The disappointing aspect of every single one was the lack of interest in the concept of relieving people from the need for a trusted third party. In fact, many of the businessmen in attendance were counting on becoming the necessary link between the user and their money. The whole concept of bastardizing the basic tenet of Bitcoin is so repulsive it makes me want to abandon bitcoin altogether.

QuestionAuthority.

honestly, i have no clue what you're on about.

that has nothing to do with any bitcoin conference or meet up.  and nothing to do with the roundtable either.

the people who attend these types of events do so because they want to see bitcoin succeed and feel that meeting other like minded people can help them do that and smooth the rough edges to help make it happen.  decentralisation is the key word.  it was mentioned so often that you almost wish they'd find another word.   very few people in attendance even mentioned their own businesses or what they do in the bitcoin space.  almost all of the conversations are about how to take bitcoin forward - in a general way - so that more people will have the ability to use it, in new and exciting ways.  not only the unbanked.. but also the banked.  fully inclusive.  not even excluding the bankers.  everyone should have access to it.

you make it sound like you dont want money to be used for its primary purpose.  you sound anti business.   money allows people to buy and sell goods and services.    you sound like youre against commerce.    anyone who can help onboard more people into bitcoin is a good thing.  do you think most of the world is going to start using it because its there?   most will need encouragement via goods and services that are easier and cheaper to use than what they use at present.  that requires innovation of new bitcoin businesses for us to on-board the next few million bitcoin users.  and will need some established and successful businesses to be able to on-board the next billion!

if that sickens you, i think you should take up a hobby that doesn't involve 'digital money' because money is mainly used for commerce/business.  get used to it, or find something else to do.   you cant be pro bitcoin and anti business.   makes no sense.

What a load of crap. I can't tell if you're bullshitting me or yourself. They couldn't really give a shit about Bitcoin. Hell, I doubt half of them have even read the whitepaper. The people I see in videos and meet in person believe in success - they're own success. That success has nothing to do with slowly developing a working system and delivering it freely to all takers. VC money doesn't chase humanitarian goals or work toward unseating the current corrupt system. VC money embraces Wall Street and crawls in bed with bankers. The major players in Bitcoin currently look as if all they care about is creating a system that can generate profits as quickly as possible.

Money for you is only about commerce and profit, just as it is for Wall Street. Yes, I am anti-business-as-usual. I don't want a new system if it empowers and enriches the few. I don't agree with a system that needs closed door collusion to make decisions. Try taking some of the wealth of the investors involved and create a no fee, free to use electronic exchange that allows individuals worldwide to free themselves from banks instead of, as you say, including bankers. You sound as if you simply expect Bitcoin to be nothing more than a trendy, edgy, cool alternative to PayPal minus the fraud protection for consumers.

For those who haven't read the white paper, I've twitted it in 256 tweets including the images: https://twitter.com/firstwhitepaper, ergo I've probably read it more times than anybody else on the planet. In fact, I probable could recite the entire thing, e.g., "I had a dream..." Oops, wrong body of work which I also tweeted: https://twitter.com/MLKsIHaveADream (both body of works inspired by my https://twitter.com/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2).
aerobatic
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 702
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 01, 2016, 10:22:31 AM
 #200

q.a.

we're ideologically polar opposites.  I'm pro business and i believe the majority of people using bitcoin are - and will be - too.  you're anti-business.  no need to give it a fancy name like anti-business-as-usual when you mean anti-business.

we won't ever agree on this - coming from different worlds, so lets agree to disagree and move on.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!