Meteoric rise of BTC sucking life from Alt-Coins

[crazy_rabbit]

I think there is a good argument to be made that by trading alt-coins against BTC we fall victim to psychologically being influenced on the value of Alt-coins are relative to BTC.

Right now for example, LTC looks *horrible* compared to BTC on the charts, it's value continues to drop, but it's hard to constantly keep in mind that the value is against something that is constantly going up. If you look at LTC/USD LTC is down a bit, but not nearly as much as BTC/LTC.

Maybe trading against BTC is a bad idea in that it locks the value of alt coins too much to BTC. Of course it would be hard to "decouple" these things on exchanges where much of their profit is made trading between the two, but for example at exchange.zapto.org the collapse of LTC against BTC has meant many sell order of TRC have disappears (I had my eye on lots of 5000TRC sales) but as confidence drops in LTC no one wants to sell other alt coins against it.

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[ElectricMucus]

They are selling low and buying high.

Let them

[BugSpirit]

Everyone just converted their alts to BTC to get profit from rising. They will be back. And for us, the real alt-coins supporters, the situation is a good opportunity to buy low.

[bowen151]

Rabbit which alt coin are you throwing the majority of your hashing at?

I seen you on the coinotron lists a few times but I can't recall the numbers

[hanzac]

Everyone just converted their alts to BTC to get profit from rising. They will be back. And for us, the real alt-coins supporters, the situation is a good opportunity to buy low.

I think LTC's current price is becoming safe with it. I just bought a few hundreds from BTC-e.

[crazy_rabbit]

Rabbit which alt coin are you throwing the majority of your hashing at?

I seen you on the coinotron lists a few times but I can't recall the numbers

I'm soloing TRC at the moment. You make more LTC by mining TRC and selling for LTC.

[Walter Rothbard]

I think there is a good argument to be made that by trading alt-coins against BTC we fall victim to psychologically being influenced on the value of Alt-coins are relative to BTC.

Right now for example, LTC looks *horrible* compared to BTC on the charts, it's value continues to drop, but it's hard to constantly keep in mind that the value is against something that is constantly going up. If you look at LTC/USD LTC is down a bit, but not nearly as much as BTC/LTC.

Maybe trading against BTC is a bad idea in that it locks the value of alt coins too much to BTC. Of course it would be hard to "decouple" these things on exchanges where much of their profit is made trading between the two, but for example at exchange.zapto.org the collapse of LTC against BTC has meant many sell order of TRC have disappears (I had my eye on lots of 5000TRC sales) but as confidence drops in LTC no one wants to sell other alt coins against it.

Rabbit, I haven't looked at the numbers, but from what I see here on the forum, I imagine that TRC would be going up and LTC going down.  Is it possible this is what you're seeing?

[crazy_rabbit]

I think there is a good argument to be made that by trading alt-coins against BTC we fall victim to psychologically being influenced on the value of Alt-coins are relative to BTC.

Right now for example, LTC looks *horrible* compared to BTC on the charts, it's value continues to drop, but it's hard to constantly keep in mind that the value is against something that is constantly going up. If you look at LTC/USD LTC is down a bit, but not nearly as much as BTC/LTC.

Maybe trading against BTC is a bad idea in that it locks the value of alt coins too much to BTC. Of course it would be hard to "decouple" these things on exchanges where much of their profit is made trading between the two, but for example at exchange.zapto.org the collapse of LTC against BTC has meant many sell order of TRC have disappears (I had my eye on lots of 5000TRC sales) but as confidence drops in LTC no one wants to sell other alt coins against it.

Rabbit, I haven't looked at the numbers, but from what I see here on the forum, I imagine that TRC would be going up and LTC going down.  Is it possible this is what you're seeing?

Dunno- there isn't really enough data on what TRC is doing. Up until today it was only possible to buy TRC on an exchange against LTC. But now you can buy it also at https://trcexchange.bitparking.com/ against BTC. However I think it's too new to see any sort of trend in it. I would still caution against looking at TRC as the next LTC or something like that. It's an experimental Bitcoin- few things have been changed to differentiate it (a couple important ones however), and it's more of a space for active experimentation both with the change, and with the social and economic aspect around it.

[bitcool]

It's almost a perfect storm for ltc: btc rise, competition from ppc, trc, frc... Never mind asic is coming and truck loads of gpu are becoming worthless in the btc world. 

Some major speculators have bailed, which is probably a good thing.

[420]

It's almost a perfect storm for ltc: btc rise, competition from ppc, trc, frc... Never mind asic is coming and truck loads of gpu are becoming worthless in the btc world. 

Some major speculators have bailed, which is probably a good thing.

what you mean people trading margins are out; now its the real buyers and sellers? and oversold...

[crazy_rabbit]

It's almost a perfect storm for ltc: btc rise, competition from ppc, trc, frc... Never mind asic is coming and truck loads of gpu are becoming worthless in the btc world. 

Some major speculators have bailed, which is probably a good thing.

what you mean people trading margins are out; now its the real buyers and sellers? and oversold...

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

[Kryptox]

I have a feeling that LTC just doesn't have the liquidity needed to properly implement a backbone yet.  Then again, creating more support for it would perhaps generate the liquidity...chicken or the egg I guess.  I find most of the exchanges for alt coins to be a bit of a joke at the moment as well.  Also, once ASIC's get going, average miners will be forced to move to alts which should give them a boost I'd think?

[bitcool]

The question is,  is  time on the  ltc  side,  or  it's against ltc?

Time , security , stability , user base,  services... all  require patience to come by.:-)

[wh00per]

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

[-ck]

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Rome's architects didn't abandon it though...

[420]

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Rome's architects didn't abandon it though...

the architects weren't the same people the whole time I bet

[bitcool]

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Rome's architects didn't abandon it though...

Aren't LTC's architects same as BTC's?  The design is the same, just different implementation.

A (skilled) builder can quit or abandon his job, but the project can be easily maintained by others ...  the beauty of open source.

[-ck]

Do you see any developers currently working on LTC? Any that have commit access to the official source that are working? Have the previous developers handed over responsibility to anyone they can trust? I put it to you that LTC development is in a very precarious state and these are questions anyone investing heavily in LTC needs to ask themselves.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

A lot of people purchased alt coins to speculate on them. Now, they see that the value isn't really going up, especially when they compare it to the "gold standard" of Bitcoin. It's clear why a lot of the speculators and holders are moving out.

[laSeek]

Do you see any developers currently working on LTC? Any that have commit access to the official source that are working? Have the previous developers handed over responsibility to anyone they can trust? I put it to you that LTC development is in a very precarious state and these are questions anyone investing heavily in LTC needs to ask themselves.

There are new devs that now have commit access to the ltc repo.
Coblee is on-board with a few of us working on the code and rolling in updates - many of which are in test and we're aiming to start more regular release cycles of the client.
We're being careful to ensure we can provide a clean upgrade mechanism for users as we build new functionality and roll in important changes from the bitcoin source.

...when they compare it to the "gold standard" of Bitcoin...

Yes - many, not all, developers on bitcoin set a high standard.  We're aware that some like to compare "gold" to "silver" - we think there is an appropriate niche for both.
With Litecoin worked closely with the bitcoin developers in the past - adapting the niche we think we service - we look forward to continue doing so as time unfolds.

I'm disappointed by the lack of backbone in the LTC 'economy'. Basic services and structures are hard to find or do not exist. The speculators were in because there was lots of talk of building these things, but when the months go by and they don't get built, and people talk less and less about actually building them, it gets hard to maintain the faith. Besides, who wouldn't move out of the coin when it stops to drop? Even the faithful know to move out and buy more at the bottom. So now maybe the faithful will buy more.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Rome's architects didn't abandon it though...

That's an unfair and invalid argument ck - Coblee did a Satoshi for a number of personal reasons - he's around and reachable by the current team - but he doesn't have time to commit with the everyday dev.  We do talk with him when it comes to major changes or for brainstorming - but we also have scope to bring about change.
Gavin stepped in and did a great job of moving bitcoin forward - building upon a solid foundation and helping to turn it into what bitcoin currently is today.  Give us a chance to see if we can do the same for litecoin.

There are limited services currently with ltc - and that's largely our responsibility to work out and fix.
This is something we are heavily into at the moment and I think over the next few months you'll find a lot more possible with LTC other than speculating or hedging against with btc.
On btce ltc is heavily traded - with very healthy volumes which I think is a very good sign.

We're also looking to deal with a number of hostile actions by some who believe that btc should be the only coin.
In the past few months the blockchain & many of the pools have been attacked by those who believe it should be taken down - sadly it appears that one of the contributors to the bitcoin code also have it out for litecoin - which tarnishes the image of not just bitcoin but all cryptocoins. 
We've weathered these attacks pretty well I think - we've learned a lot and now in a more solid position to take Litecoin to a new level.