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Author Topic: what happens if a net of bots start to create bitcoin addresses?  (Read 1110 times)
joticajulian
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January 24, 2013, 07:51:10 PM
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I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?
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January 24, 2013, 07:59:30 PM
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I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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January 24, 2013, 08:00:31 PM
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I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

So just a little over 6000 years?
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January 24, 2013, 08:14:33 PM
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I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

So just a little over 6000 years?

hmmm, maybe my math is bad, let's see, there is less than 32 million seconds in a year, that is 32*10^6.
so, 10^149 / 32*10^6 = 0.31 * 10^143 years, that is much more than 6000 years !

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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January 24, 2013, 08:15:07 PM
 #5

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

Also, literally "creating an address" is pretty useless in itself.  What are they going to do, send bitcoins to every possible address until they've all been "exhausted"?  That would be giving free coins to everyone with a private key, since they could spend the coins in at least one of the addresses.

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klondike_bar
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January 24, 2013, 09:59:07 PM
 #6

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

So just a little over 6000 years?

please be trolling and not serious

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January 24, 2013, 10:18:23 PM
 #7

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?
It will take more time than the sun will live  Smiley Call me when all the possible addresses are exhausted  Smiley
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January 24, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
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Mathematics.  They're neat.
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January 24, 2013, 10:29:49 PM
 #9

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?

Even if they can generate 1000 billion address (10^11) per second, it will take 10^149 seconds to exhaust them. That is more time than the age of universe.

Also, literally "creating an address" is pretty useless in itself.  What are they going to do, send bitcoins to every possible address until they've all been "exhausted"?  That would be giving free coins to everyone with a private key, since they could spend the coins in at least one of the addresses.

No... control the address space.. then SELL the addresses to people needing to use bitcoins..
and before you laugh... it is already happening with the addresses that contain words.
If you cannot think more than 1 step ahead perhaps the kiddies sandpit is the best place to play....

BTC:1PCTzvkZUFuUF7DA6aMEVjBUUp35wN5JtF
DannyHamilton
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January 24, 2013, 10:45:35 PM
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. . . then SELL the addresses to people needing to use bitcoins . . .
Purchasing an address that someone else has the private key to, is just begging to have your bitcoins stolen.  I understand that there are people using bitcoin that may not understand this and make the mistake, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

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January 24, 2013, 11:26:09 PM
 #11

The number of possible addresses is right about 100x smaller than the number atoms that make up the Earth. Even if you could encode 1 bit of an address onto 1 atom, you couldn't even store every bitcoin address using the entirety of the mass of the Earth.

You have a better chance of a meteorite falling into your house that happens to be carrying a winning powerball ticket at the same time you're getting hit by lightening than you do of someone stealing your bitcoins from their master list of all keypairs.
hardcore-fs
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January 24, 2013, 11:40:02 PM
 #12

The number of possible addresses is right about 100x smaller than the number atoms that make up the Earth. Even if you could encode 1 bit of an address onto 1 atom, you couldn't even store every bitcoin address using the entirety of the mass of the Earth.

You have a better chance of a meteorite falling into your house that happens to be carrying a winning powerball ticket at the same time you're getting hit by lightening than you do of someone stealing your bitcoins from their master list of all keypairs.

you only need to keep the 'good ones' same as web addresses.......


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SgtSpike
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January 24, 2013, 11:42:09 PM
 #13

The number of possible addresses is right about 100x smaller than the number atoms that make up the Earth. Even if you could encode 1 bit of an address onto 1 atom, you couldn't even store every bitcoin address using the entirety of the mass of the Earth.

You have a better chance of a meteorite falling into your house that happens to be carrying a winning powerball ticket at the same time you're getting hit by lightening than you do of someone stealing your bitcoins from their master list of all keypairs.

you only need to keep the 'good ones' same as web addresses.......


What's your point?  Someone could create 1SgtSpikefakj4923fJ9g0uja2349g, but then I could just create 1SgtSpikefj48902jfv8940aj4v2a4fjakf.

The only advantage is firstbits - only one person can own the address associated with the firstbits 1sgtspike.
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January 25, 2013, 12:07:56 AM
 #14

Funny how it comes up from time to time, so I look around for that thread...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104461.0

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JoelKatz
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January 25, 2013, 12:15:23 AM
 #15

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?
I'm thinking you have absolutely no idea how big 2^160 is. If you had a botnet with a billion bots, each producing a billion addresses per second, in a billion years you could create one out of every 46 billion addresses.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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dree12
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January 25, 2013, 12:27:31 AM
 #16

I read that there are 2^160 possible addresses. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24268.0

Suppose that a group (with bad intentions) start to create several addresses using bots, what happens if they exhaust all the possible addresses?
I'm thinking you have absolutely no idea how big 2^160 is. If you had a botnet with a billion bots, each producing a billion addresses per second, in a billion years you could create one out of every 46 billion addresses.

46 trillion, actually.

A large chunk of those addresses is probably mathematically impossible though, as RIPEMD could possibly have impossible outputs. Taking Moore's law into account, it would still take almost 80 years before all addresses were generated.
DeathAndTaxes
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January 25, 2013, 12:47:49 AM
 #17

What is an impossible output?  Also I think your 80 year is off by a few orders of magnitude.
dree12
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January 25, 2013, 12:56:51 AM
 #18

What is an impossible output?

The RIPEMD is not proven to be reversible. For example, the function f(x)=x^2 is not reversible (over the reals) as there are values of f(x) for which there is no value of x. As such, there could possibly exist 160-bit numbers that can become valid addresses but are not obtainable with RIPEMD. This can reduce the address space.
Walter Rothbard
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January 25, 2013, 01:17:24 AM
 #19

Bitcoin addresses are plentiful enough that one could be generated for every transaction expected in the economy without running out.  I imagine that global daily economic transactions worldwide far outpace what most botnets could accomplish.

I might be wrong on this comparison of scale, but my point is that distributed mass generation of bitcoin addresses is exactly what this system was designed for!

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