We missed the ETH train.

[lister storm]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

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[virasisog]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

[skeet]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

Sounds like not a good time to jump on the ETH bandwagon.

[Wandika]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

It is quite possible for the ETH price to rise to 0.025. But that will not happen in the next two weeks. It might happen after September.

[Dobmader]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

It is quite possible for the ETH price to rise to 0.025. But that will not happen in the next two weeks. It might happen after September.

If the Ethereum Classic is killed by the pumpers and the hackers, then the price of the Ethereum could rise. We need to wait and see.

[virasisog]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

It is quite possible for the ETH price to rise to 0.025. But that will not happen in the next two weeks. It might happen after September.

If the Ethereum Classic is killed by the pumpers and the hackers, then the price of the Ethereum could rise. We need to wait and see.

We shall know the result of the movement of DAO hacker's ETC in early September. That is just two weeks away.

[bbc.reporter]

While it may be arguable that the 'attacker' behaved criminally, as far as civilly he may not be so clear. Being that all the DAO participants are partners, taking the money like this is a violation of good faith, it seemed the attacker had no intention of participating in the DAO as a typical, mutual investor. This is a disservice to his 'partners' and could most likely be addressed in civil court. However, since the fork has happened, does this still even apply? Technically, this never happened on one chain. This shit is too next level for the moment, we are literally in uncharted territory.

When it's all said and done, most of this will play out in civil court. This is simply too cutting edge/high tech for conventional law to apply, it will be a stretch to apply criminal stature imo. What this is however, is a poorly written contract; the legal system has had those figured out for quite some time now

What is all this talk of the attacker going to court? We do not even know who the attacker is or how to catch him. But let us narrow it down. It could be anyone who is good at coding in Solidity.

List those people first and then let us narrow it down more until we find a most likely suspect.

[Murtiya]

While it may be arguable that the 'attacker' behaved criminally, as far as civilly he may not be so clear. Being that all the DAO participants are partners, taking the money like this is a violation of good faith, it seemed the attacker had no intention of participating in the DAO as a typical, mutual investor. This is a disservice to his 'partners' and could most likely be addressed in civil court. However, since the fork has happened, does this still even apply? Technically, this never happened on one chain. This shit is too next level for the moment, we are literally in uncharted territory.

When it's all said and done, most of this will play out in civil court. This is simply too cutting edge/high tech for conventional law to apply, it will be a stretch to apply criminal stature imo. What this is however, is a poorly written contract; the legal system has had those figured out for quite some time now

What is all this talk of the attacker going to court? We do not even know who the attacker is or how to catch him. But let us narrow it down. It could be anyone who is good at coding in Solidity.

List those people first and then let us narrow it down more until we find a most likely suspect.

If there is an attacker, he will be caught eventually. Do not underestimate the capabilities of the law enforcements.

[mining1]

And apparently some people are going to miss another ETH train, the price is increasing again, the dark times are long over.

[Ayers]

And apparently some people are going to miss another ETH train, the price is increasing again, the dark times are long over.

do you really see this shooting up to 0.03 or higher again? i just think these are mini pump and dump to keep the coin alive for the mienrs, i don't know about the pos, perhaps it will increase very high when the mining scene end

[Minecache]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

It is quite possible for the ETH price to rise to 0.025. But that will not happen in the next two weeks. It might happen after September.

If the Ethereum Classic is killed by the pumpers and the hackers, then the price of the Ethereum could rise. We need to wait and see.

We shall know the result of the movement of DAO hacker's ETC in early September. That is just two weeks away.

We are now just 1 day away from the MASSIVE dump of the ETC criminal coin.

[Azael]

we definitely still did not miss it, i think that the price of etc might still grow right now so im putting some money into it right now to make profit in the future

The Ethereum price is rising at the moment. The price is 0.021 now. The price could rise to 0.025 in the next few days.

It is quite possible for the ETH price to rise to 0.025. But that will not happen in the next two weeks. It might happen after September.

If the Ethereum Classic is killed by the pumpers and the hackers, then the price of the Ethereum could rise. We need to wait and see.

We shall know the result of the movement of DAO hacker's ETC in early September. That is just two weeks away.

We are now just 1 day away from the MASSIVE dump of the ETC criminal coin.

The market didn't care about Kraken Polo or WHG. I accumulated more ETC and VB is embracing ETC now. The hacker will dump less than WHGs did because he can't find a liquid place to do it. https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/50k0wr/vitalik_buterin_softens_on_etc_a_nonnegligible/

[mining1]

And apparently some people are going to miss another ETH train, the price is increasing again, the dark times are long over.

do you really see this shooting up to 0.03 or higher again? i just think these are mini pump and dump to keep the coin alive for the mienrs, i don't know about the pos, perhaps it will increase very high when the mining scene end

I don't see it shooting upwards too fast, it will slowly increase since the dark dao days are over and the bottom is in ~10$ range. And now with development and only positive news ahead it can only go up. Unless some massive coordinate trolling and price manipulation goes on, it should be easily over 15$ after the devcon. Not to mention the value dapps will bring after projects for the masses like akasha go live. Sure, the road ain't safe, those who missed ETH boat and that went into ETC boat instead hoping for a miracle will try hard to manipulate.

[mining1]

Hard fork happened because people like me voted for it and decided that it was better than not hard forking it, simple. "Immutability", a word thrown around so often lately, was never sacrificed with hard fork, since only the tumor was removed, no other transaction. I bet people / developers wished having the option to do HF's like this, with no other transaction being rolled, but this was a special case, ETH was locked away.
And these ETC supporters, they like to use "immutability" as a reason for supporting ETC because for most of them, ETC is speculation. They missed early ETH days so they now simply bet on ETC, like barry shilbert. Im curious, do you really believe that guy didnt dump his bag yet ? Has he shown any proof of what he has ? Did he respond to https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/762312144411058177  ? Ofc he didnt, he's just using his influence to speculate.
Pro tip: whatever these "influencial" people tell everyone they do, DON'T do the same, you're either already late or they're doing the opposite they say. Just like chandler guo, that guy doesn't give shit about ETC.

[dinofelis]

I can understand that there are people preferring to work on a "vote" platform rather than on a "rights" platform because that gives the impression that the "majority" (the mob ?) is in control, and that there are no hard rules (rights) that are "above all".  People never really liked the idea of "nothing above the law" because we like, in the end, to negotiate and cheat a bit.  The idea that there would be hard rules that are there for everyone without exception, is probably shocking.

But what is extremely ironic in this affair is that "hard rules are above everyone" was exactly the essential value proposition of ethereum !  Unstoppable code, the code is the law.   Without that, you have a very doubtful system, where the code is law, unless it isn't.  But, as I said, many people like this ambiguity of being able to claim consistency, while knowing that there are always back doors to go and negotiate/cheat in the end.

Ethereum is now a strange beast.  It isn't really a block chain any more as its immutability has been broken, but it still looks much like it, and many people are still pretending that it is.  And as "many people pretending" is the only thing that gives value with purely speculative tokens, the price of it can go anywhere.

However, real usage is another affair.  My idea is that ethereum is fundamentally flawed for reasons I explained already a few times: it has been designed as a software platform, and not as a secure failsafe system.  It has been designed like a tool for designing web sites, and not as a tool for designing security systems of nuclear power plants.  So whatever you will design with it, will have the reliability of a web site, and not of a security system ; except that when bugs/exploits happen, YOU CANNOT PUSH A SECURITY UPDATE and the implications are huge.  So it is even worse than the security system of a nuclear power plant: if one incident happens with a power plant safety controller, due to a bug/exploit, you can update it.  With ethereum, you can't even do that, because the code is unstoppable, even if you know that there's a bug/exploit.

So my idea is that ethereum is not usable, except for VERY SMALL contracts.

As long as it isn't used, however, it can live its happy life as a betting token.  When it will be used again, if ever it is, chances are it will have the same fate as the DAO.

So this brings us to the hard fork, which opens the question: given that almost every "serious" application on ethereum will suffer exploits like the DAO, why did one fork over the first one ?  Because it was the first one ?  Or will one fork every time ?  Or sometimes, one doesn't know when or how, depending on the mood of the mob or the number of important people affected ?  Was this first hard fork a cover-up of the essential problems with ethereum, making people believe that this was just a small beginner's error which will not be repeated ?  Or is this now how ethereum will be running: at major exploits, we fork if the mob wants to ?

Hard fork happened because people like me voted for it and decided that it was better than not hard forking it, simple. "Immutability", a word thrown around so often lately, was never sacrificed with hard fork, since only the tumor was removed, no other transaction. I bet people / developers wished having the option to do HF's like this, with no other transaction being rolled, but this was a special case, ETH was locked away.

How many "special cases" will there be ?

And these ETC supporters, they like to use "immutability" as a reason for supporting ETC because for most of them, ETC is speculation. They missed early ETH days so they now simply bet on ETC, like barry shilbert. Im curious, do you really believe that guy didnt dump his bag yet ? Has he shown any proof of what he has ? Did he respond to https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/762312144411058177  ? Ofc he didnt, he's just using his influence to speculate.
Pro tip: whatever these "influencial" people tell everyone they do, DON'T do the same, you're either already late or they're doing the opposite they say. Just like chandler guo, that guy doesn't give shit about ETC.

Well, ETC is for sure in trouble, but it has the merit of keeping a block chain as it was intended.  It is in trouble, because ETC also is ethereum, which is a platform for making buggy and exploitable contracts which are then supposed to run unaltered and unpatched, and moreover, ETC has the intention to let them run as intended.  ETH is not a block chain any more, but a not-yet-clearly defined kind of thing (a vote-chain ?) where anything can happen, but most of the time, it will look like a block chain, except when it doesn't.  Maybe you're right in the end, and with a platform on which one makes exploitable contracts, one shouldn't use an unstoppable block chain.  This is maybe what was the "wisdom of the crowd" when they colluded to break the ETH block chain: no serious person would want REALLY unstoppable code on such a platform, so the doubt has to be instilled that, if one (who?) really wants to, one can stop the unstoppable code.

The only thing is: we already have that.  It is called a normal contract, and court.

[dinofelis]

It isn't centralized actually, although the hard fork did happen.

The block chain paradigm failed.  You're right that this doesn't mean "centralization" per se.  The block chain paradigm is that no majority collusion can be found over altering immutability or protocol (on the "intend" level).  This hypothesis of no possible collusion is what was the reason of existence of the block chain technology.  In the ethereum block chain such a collusion has been found (a large majority against the "dao hacker"), and hence the paradigm of the block chain failed.

[bbc.reporter]

Hard fork happened because people like me voted for it and decided that it was better than not hard forking it, simple. "Immutability", a word thrown around so often lately, was never sacrificed with hard fork, since only the tumor was removed, no other transaction. I bet people / developers wished having the option to do HF's like this, with no other transaction being rolled, but this was a special case, ETH was locked away.
And these ETC supporters, they like to use "immutability" as a reason for supporting ETC because for most of them, ETC is speculation. They missed early ETH days so they now simply bet on ETC, like barry shilbert. Im curious, do you really believe that guy didnt dump his bag yet ? Has he shown any proof of what he has ? Did he respond to https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/762312144411058177  ? Ofc he didnt, he's just using his influence to speculate.
Pro tip: whatever these "influencial" people tell everyone they do, DON'T do the same, you're either already late or they're doing the opposite they say. Just like chandler guo, that guy doesn't give shit about ETC.

Let us say Augur already launched and it is very successful. There are now millions flowing in and out of the Augur dapp and then the unexpected happens, $50 million in ETH was stolen because of a bug in the dapp. Now the founders of Augur has a case for requesting for a roll back in transactions so that they could get all the customers' ETH back. It would be unfair not to get back their $50 million while the slock.it team's DAO get their millions back. How will that be viewed by everyone?

I know you will say the "community" will vote for it and leave it to them. Ok but what if that dapp belonged to a consortium of banks? Would they allow the "community" to put it in a vote? I think they could get Vitalik and twist his arm until they get their fork and their millions back.

The next question is how many Ethereums would there be after another fork?

[mining1]

It wouldn't be done because that would actually break the "immutability", all the transactions would be rolled back. DAO case was a special case with ETH locked away for 1 month.
@dinofelis you're not worth reading, sorry for your effort.

[dinofelis]

It wouldn't be done because that would actually break the "immutability", all the transactions would be rolled back. DAO case was a special case with ETH locked away for 1 month.
@dinofelis you're not worth reading, sorry for your effort.

Funny that you replied then, to someone who is grossly saying about the same thing as I do 

[greenuser]

Hard fork happened because people like me voted for it and decided that it was better than not hard forking it, simple. "Immutability", a word thrown around so often lately, was never sacrificed with hard fork, since only the tumor was removed, no other transaction. I bet people / developers wished having the option to do HF's like this, with no other transaction being rolled, but this was a special case, ETH was locked away.
And these ETC supporters, they like to use "immutability" as a reason for supporting ETC because for most of them, ETC is speculation. They missed early ETH days so they now simply bet on ETC, like barry shilbert. Im curious, do you really believe that guy didnt dump his bag yet ? Has he shown any proof of what he has ? Did he respond to https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/762312144411058177  ? Ofc he didnt, he's just using his influence to speculate.
Pro tip: whatever these "influencial" people tell everyone they do, DON'T do the same, you're either already late or they're doing the opposite they say. Just like chandler guo, that guy doesn't give shit about ETC.

Let us say Augur already launched and it is very successful. There are now millions flowing in and out of the Augur dapp and then the unexpected happens, $50 million in ETH was stolen because of a bug in the dapp. Now the founders of Augur has a case for requesting for a roll back in transactions so that they could get all the customers' ETH back. It would be unfair not to get back their $50 million while the slock.it team's DAO get their millions back. How will that be viewed by everyone?

I know you will say the "community" will vote for it and leave it to them. Ok but what if that dapp belonged to a consortium of banks? Would they allow the "community" to put it in a vote? I think they could get Vitalik and twist his arm until they get their fork and their millions back.

The next question is how many Ethereums would there be after another fork?

The real problem is, why put loads of effort into making 3rd party dapps bug free?  EF offers insurance for when things go wrong!
So if you missed the ETH train, now is your time for a 2nd chance, but be quick,  ETC is about to depart from platform 2 at the Poloniex Station.
Full steam ahead!