[FACT] Spoetnik supports IPO/ICO coins..

[bitcoinlitcoinbtcltc]

bring back ur penguin avatar

[Snail2]

i agree early days yet, and we have to focus on the right direction, i personally don't consider bitcoin all that useful as a proper p2p currency (its kinda the distraction).

Agree, a quick microtransaction optimized coin would be better and probably that's the right direction.

[Spoetnik]

When i started mid-2013 roughly i had that gut reaction too...

That's fine, but who will contribute to the regulation on behalf of this community? The Bitcoin Foundation could have been that, but the leadership were after the quick buck (and some of them were common criminals) so they lost their significance by now. Then who else?

There are nobody who are accepted by this community and also taken seriously by the other side. So being a part of the regulation process is a dream what won't happen. BTW who are the other side? That side is also widely divided and there are very little cooperation between states and financial organizations. I believe you are too optimistic and we will end up with a lot of localized government imposed regulations and we will have to accept and live with that or fight a guerilla war for our money by moving it to the country what provides the best environment and the less disruptive regulations.

again the point of p2p currency is to be indifferent to regulation and if where smart enough/dedicated enough we can make this happen, people are just too busy scrounging around for small bits of fiat to see the much larger picture.

I too would like to see a digital currency take hold world wide independent of regulations.
but as we can see there *so far* has been a massive need to transfer FIAT wealth / value etc
to & from the mighty fiat dollar to Bitcoin..
When BTC exploded back in late 2013 i had started mid 2013 when it was pretty much dead still.
I was privileged enough to have shown up just in time to see the before & after (showing me some context on it all)
I remember i just couldn't bloody believe how many noobs were coming out of nowhere
one after another on Cryptsy chat alone.. chanting on average once every minute or two..
"how do i get money from my bank to Cryptsy?" (back then Cryptsy had no Fiat support / markets)
Shit went INSANE!

Ever since i seen WHO was coming and WHY.
And i rallied ever since to look at the larger picture.. for one thing for our profits.
Having a toxic / self-destructive attitude about all this and doing things that are self-defeating
for small amounts of profit is foolish when we could be making HONEST & sincere efforts
and way later realize a far grander larger profit... we are killing crypto for chump change i have said non stop.

kesley you said..

the point of p2p currency is to be indifferent

i like that choice of words.
When i have brought up those issues all i have ever gotten is a highly aggressive response from most people.
They simply bark at me like i am telling them i am on a mission to get bad laws applied to us in Crypto.
Since then all these exchanges have instituted Picture ID requirements.. so i was right!
And what can we do ? At the very least keep an ongoing dialog about it going in the hopes
that the financial regulators WHO ARE WATCHING will see what we want..

THEY -DID- ask us to input our feedback on this specific matter and there was a topic
or two in the Bitcoin section here about it but all we did is is get mouthy and chant rebellious Crypto rebel rabble.
Funny how 100% of people out there said they can't do anything "fuck 'em" then how these same guys
..later sent their Picture ID to Cryptsy or Poloniex etc hahahha

What i am trying hard to say here is this..
Can we get the goal of Crypto done.. reach the end-game with out interacting with the Fiat system ?
So far i don't see how we can do it.. what happens when the average person out there
see this stuff and says ok, well.. how do i BUY a Bitcoin? (or ANY Altcoin)
That right there is a wall.. a Gate to Crypto! ...and the wall is regulated with Financial Laws.

And no i don't want to hear about exceptions to the rule either.. for the most part we have heavy ties to Fiat.
Govt's are not giving us a free pass with no laws they are just dragging their feet on how they are going to handle this.
Canada issued a public statement years ago saying you have to claim your Crypto earnings.
And Coindesk years ago ran a story about two guys arrested in a parking lot by the FBI..
The met on Local Bitcoins and sold $30,000 usd worth of BTC.. they were violating anti-money laundering laws in Florida.

I just don't think the majority of Crypto profiteers newer to Crypto even grasp what is and *has* gone on.
They simply take it for granted that this is how it is NOW and they can just keep investing in "Schemes"
assuming they are legal & safe etc.
What are you going to do if Mintpal or Gox or Cryptsy or.. walk off with your money ?
Amazing how all the people cry for the Police and LAW when their coins are stolen
and they demand BTER roll back the block chain after the NXT hack way back etc..

[TPTB_need_war]

I created the thread(s) that attempts to decipher what the existing law is on this issue:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1218399.0

I have concluded that offering an ICO/IPO is incredibly risky for the developers and insiders. I think the G20 will eventually come after them in a concerted cooperation by governments to appease the voters who are fed up with corruption in government and banking. The G20 will use this as a political witch hunt to divert attention from the sovereign debt collapse that socialism created.

Having said that, philosophically I would wish for absolutely no regulation and let fools loose their money because they are fools. That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

But making decisions based on what I wish to be, is not a pragmatic methodology. Being a lead developer on my own crypto project, I must obey the law that is, not my fantasies of what I wish it would be.

[mining1]

That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

That doesnt mean the economy is more productive.Speculators/scamers for instance arent that useful for that purpose.And $ easy made is $ easy spent.

[TPTB_need_war]

That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

That doesnt mean the economy is more productive.Speculators/scamers for instance arent that useful for that purpose.And $ easy made is $ easy spent.

The power-law distribution of wealth insures that the money ends up with those who know how to save and invest[1].

[1] A. Dragulescu and V. Yakovenko. Exponential and power-law probability distributions of wealth and income in the United Kingdom and the United States

[kelsey]

Having said that, philosophically I would wish for absolutely no regulation and let fools loose their money because they are fools. That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

big flaw in this is all those involved in ICOs are fools, so there is no redistribution of the money simply just fools passing it to fools.

[Spoetnik]

I missed guy commenting on my Avatar LOL
I was wondering if anyone noticed (i had to refresh my pages to see it myself)
Just trying to change it up a bit for a while
It's a mod i made of the "Backtrack" Linux distrib Logo. (Now called Kali)

Not trying to redirect the conversation here but would you guys
against IPO/ICO's be willing to support them if there were similar rules applied like in the US Stock Markets ?
I think this view on it is far too often ignored.
I can envision some people saying well it would not stop criminals.
No law we have stops criminals as it is.. any of them!
But having them in various aspects of our lives greases the wheels and keeps society moving along.
Me i think it would make a huge difference.
Just imagine the threat of possibly going to jail for "insider Trading" in crypto.

All i have ever heard is how these are like the stocks in a stock market..
Ok fine then, let's add the stock market laws too.
Or drop the dumb comparisons  

EDIT:
I appreciate the feedback too guys.
TPTB_need_war in some ways is way smarter than me so he can go over my head at times.
Which is all the more reason to speak up.. maybe i will learn something.
And always good to see kelsey joining in!
(the rest of you too guys like snail who i like)

I am not after perfection but what concerns me is the tilt of corruption in Crypto leans to far in a bad direction.
Overall i'd like to see Crypto move in a constructive / positive direction.
I also do not see drama as bad and needs to be stifled.
In something like this i would have to expect a lot of friction and disagreements.
And we are only going to move forward by talking it out (or trolling each other to death) hahahhah
Since i got here with Crypto it has been an evolving learning experience for me.. in many ways.
Many users will get their first opportunity to confront their morality with temptations of profits.
All of a sudden you can be confronted with a tough decision in crypto.. do i lower my integrity for profit ?
Anyway
I got to say i really did not expect IPO / ICO style coins to take over the scene and be such a dominating force.
I sure as hell never predicted that coming..

[TPTB_need_war]

Having said that, philosophically I would wish for absolutely no regulation and let fools loose their money because they are fools. That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

big flaw in this is all those involved in ICOs are fools, so there is no redistribution of the money simply just fools passing it to fools.

Seems you missed my post refuting you before you wrote yours. Or perhaps you thought the ICO insiders concentrate wealth into their hands, but no they end up losing all the money to those who properly save and invest. Crime and fooling others doesn't pay. Trust me, every person with bad ethics ends up in the gutter eventually. I am 51 years old this June. I have the wisdom to see that cheating always eventually ends up biting the cheater's own ass. For example, these ICO insiders will very likely end up in trouble with the securities regulators ex post facto.

Even Goldman Sachs et al are going to lose everything eventually. The time is coming...

Keep your ethics strong but don't become a dogmatic preacher, and you will live a long and productive life.

That should move the money to those who aren't fools and thus make the economy more productive.

That doesnt mean the economy is more productive.Speculators/scamers for instance arent that useful for that purpose.And $ easy made is $ easy spent.

The power-law distribution of wealth insures that the money ends up with those who know how to save and invest[1].

[1] A. Dragulescu and V. Yakovenko. Exponential and power-law probability distributions of wealth and income in the United Kingdom and the United States

[Spoetnik]

This topic here is a bit old but is relevant now a days.
I still stand behind my beliefs and never wavered from them ever once.
I am curious why so many support ICO's now when there is such a gaping hole..
What aspect of them seem legit to you all ?
How can you justify supporting them for profits ?
The end result product of sorts ?
Since when has that meant anything to anyone ?

Do you all yet see what this is yet ?
It is in fact a hollow pointless scammy charade ..fer teh ROI's.