[FACT] Spoetnik supports IPO/ICO coins..

[Spoetnik]

*IF* the appropriate Legal Regulations are put into place for Crypto (like the Stock Markets)

Until that day i do not support them.

So does anyone see what i mean and agree with me on that ?

Right now i think they are an unfair, unsafe / too risky, invalid *centralized* distribution methods.

Your opinion ?

[Snail2]

But we dislike regulations, banksters and such stuff. Aren't we? We dislike scammers too, so this is a difficult question. On one side we have banksters and lawyers on the other side we have scammers and a few honest guys (being a honest guy not necessary means that the coin will be successful). Which one do you like more?

[stoat]

*IF* the appropriate Legal Regulations are put into place for Crypto (like the Stock Markets)

Until that day i do not support them.

So does anyone see what i mean and agree with me on that ?

Right now i think they are an unfair, unsafe / too risky, invalid *centralized* distribution methods.

Your opinion ?

The only regulation needed is freedom of information and freedom of economics. What you're suggesting is authoritarianism.

You're an enemy of freedom.

[iGotSpots]

But we dislike regulations, banksters and such stuff. Aren't we? We dislike scammers too, so this is a difficult question. On one side we have banksters and lawyers on the other side we have scammers and a few honest guys (being a honest guy not necessary means that the coin will be successful). Which one do you like more?

If that's true then why are all the plebs trying to make a big deal out of crypto:banking relationships?

Regulation is not your enemy, even if the banks are

[cryptohunter]

Totally agree. Too open to scams and manipulation

Should be a few guidelines they have to adhear to.

[iGotSpots]

Totally agree. Too open to scams and manipulation

Should be a few guidelines they have to adhear to.

The problem is not regulation, it is lack of consistency and clairvoyance

[kelsey]

the entire point of p2p currency is to be indifferent to regulation !!!!!

simply members of this community should not support scams such as the blatant ones involving IPO/ICOs etc

funny we have this whole new potentially amazing future with p2p currency yet people can't get their heads outside of the old world fiat system.

[kelsey]

Should be a few guidelines they have to adhear to.

and what centralised authority is going to make and force adhesion to said guidelines 

[HongKongCoin]

But we can make so much money if we invest in the right ico.
Look at eth.

[kelsey]

But we can make so much money if we invest in the right ico.
Look at eth.

whats the point of being an alternative to the greedy bankers of the world if we ourselves become the greedy bankers 

yes as you clearly point out most the members of this community aren't in it to create a p2p currency that has unlimited potential to change the world in a hugely positive way; but simple in it out of greed to get more old world fiat 

[HongKongCoin]

But we can make so much money if we invest in the right ico.
Look at eth.

whats the point of being an alternative to the greedy bankers of the world if we ourselves become the greedy bankers 

yes as you clearly point out most the members of this community aren't in it to create a p2p currency that has unlimited potential to change the world in a hugely positive way; but simple in it out of greed to get more old world fiat 

yes it wil be like this for a while, maybe when bitcoin is 50 years old we wont be here anymore.

[numismatist]

But we can make so much money if we invest in the right ico.
Look at eth.

So I did. Now tell me why should I have been part of the ICO?

Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan been the better monthes to stack up on ETH.
Each ICO usually drops like 60% down in value on market entry.
It's proven best practice to bypass the ICO and buy later.

[Spoetnik]

But we dislike regulations, banksters and such stuff. Aren't we? We dislike scammers too, so this is a difficult question. On one side we have banksters and lawyers on the other side we have scammers and a few honest guys (being a honest guy not necessary means that the coin will be successful). Which one do you like more?

When i started mid-2013 roughly i had that gut reaction too.
But, VERY Fast i realized that whether we like it nor Regulations are coming anyway..
So.. i changed my tune on it all.
And since i seen my predictions come true.. and i warned people for years now a hell of a LOT!
I have said like a broken record if we don't get active and participate in creating rules
they will be MADE FOR US (by Governments) on our behalf.
This is EXACTLY what has been happening.
And when we had our chance to be heard like in New York about the matter in 2014 no one cared.
When i brought this up anywhere last few years all i have heard is "so what, fuck 'em!"
And comments like "They can't stop us" or "We don't need any connections to Fiat"
That is just naive and childish angst.
The whole "Crypto Hippy / Rebel" routine is admiral & all but NOT realistic in the slightest.

Anyone that has gotten to know me over the Years wound up hearing me Defend "Piracy"
I prefer to call it "File Sharing" ..so trust me i REALLY do get that crypto (no-rules) mentality.

I got two points here on that i want to highlight..

1) I agree Banks are fairly perceived as the enemy and i can't stand them all myself.
But i don't see Fiat going away for another 50 to 100 years at the earliest.
And i also do not think we can expand Crypto around the world with out a LOT of ties to Fiat. (mass adoption)
We need to learn to work with banks and this can ONLY be done with a level of realistic legal compliance.
You can not side step this!
Banks already have laws as it is so to interact with them we need to abide by law and maybe new ones to come.

2) A better way you all should look at the Laws / Crypto-Regulations issue is,
we should work WITH them with drafting regulations.
I have never ever proposed that we simply let them impose their own created rules onto us.
The various governments are over-paid idiots so why would i want them running the show calling the shots ?
Question is.. do you all think you can escape the grasp of Law and government intervention etc ?
I don't think it's possible.
For example You can say "Fuck 'em, i will do what i want" but many countries like Canada have already instituted
Tax laws that stipulate you HAVE to claim crypto profits / earnings on your tax returns.
So some guy can spout off like a Crypto-Rebel saying "Fuck 'em" all he wants..
It won't stop Revenue Canada from putting him in jail for 10 years though.
Al Capone was untouchable and what brought him down ? ..Regulations!

- So to recap, i have been saying for years we need to work with "them" to create rules / laws.

Answer me this guys would the FBI / SEC etc be ok with US Stock Market IPO's or ICO's if
..they were NOT regulated by them ?
And don't underestimate the impact of the threat of the FBI kicking your door in..
you guys can say well it's still corrupt and people still break the law.
But imagine having NO LAWS.

Seems a lot of crypto guys love all the laws that enable their plush privileged way of life.
You all enjoy the roads you drive on paid for by Tax money taken by force from people
and you all enjoy the street lights and traffic laws that make the system run..

But all of a sudden when it comes time to making money of some crypto coin IPO
..you all turn into crypto-hippy's chanting FREE MARKET™  

Hey guys.. it's been 7 years now, Time to grow up.

And yeah..
This is yet another topic i don't think even once have i seen another guy bring up.
Once again i am the guy that has to start this discussion..
Head in the sand on purpose or just being ignorant to what is looming ?
I see the crypto scene for the most part act like this all is just going to stay this way forever.
Why the hell do you think so many exchanges started a policy where you have to provide proof of your identity ?
They did it to comply with FIAT related laws.

So you can sit in the corner and sulk being a stubborn child about Regulations,
but don't complain when the decisions end up being made for you on your behalf.
(Sort of like not voting then spouting off about how the guy in charge is doing a bad job)

[HCLivess]

The Chinese are fanatics, you cannot stop them. Americans are just speculators, but have more money.

[Snail2]

If that's true then why are all the plebs trying to make a big deal out of crypto:banking relationships?

Regulation is not your enemy, even if the banks are

Regulation, banks, politicians and centralization are unfortunately coming in the same package. I few times I've pointed out how funny when alleged crypto fans are praising coins what made close relationships with banks.

[Snail2]

When i started mid-2013 roughly i had that gut reaction too...

That's fine, but who will contribute to the regulation on behalf of this community? The Bitcoin Foundation could have been that, but the leadership were after the quick buck (and some of them were common criminals) so they lost their significance by now. Then who else?

There are nobody who are accepted by this community and also taken seriously by the other side. So being a part of the regulation process is a dream what won't happen. BTW who are the other side? That side is also widely divided and there are very little cooperation between states and financial organizations. I believe you are too optimistic and we will end up with a lot of localized government imposed regulations and we will have to accept and live with that or fight a guerilla war for our money by moving it to the country what provides the best environment and the less disruptive regulations.

[kelsey]

If that's true then why are all the plebs trying to make a big deal out of crypto:banking relationships?

Regulation is not your enemy, even if the banks are

Regulation, banks, politicians and centralization are unfortunately coming in the same package. I few times I've pointed out how funny when alleged crypto fans are praising coins what made close relationships with banks.

yep was once about an alternative to the greedy bankers, now many crypto dev teams are promoting themselves as making backends for the banks, ya just gotta laugh 

[kelsey]

When i started mid-2013 roughly i had that gut reaction too...

That's fine, but who will contribute to the regulation on behalf of this community? The Bitcoin Foundation could have been that, but the leadership were after the quick buck (and some of them were common criminals) so they lost their significance by now. Then who else?

There are nobody who are accepted by this community and also taken seriously by the other side. So being a part of the regulation process is a dream what won't happen. BTW who are the other side? That side is also widely divided and there are very little cooperation between states and financial organizations. I believe you are too optimistic and we will end up with a lot of localized government imposed regulations and we will have to accept and live with that or fight a guerilla war for our money by moving it to the country what provides the best environment and the less disruptive regulations.

again the point of p2p currency is to be indifferent to regulation and if where smart enough/dedicated enough we can make this happen, people are just too busy scrounging around for small bits of fiat to see the much larger picture.

[Snail2]

again the point of p2p currency is to be indifferent to regulation and if where smart enough/dedicated enough we can make this happen, people are just too busy scrounging around for small bits of fiat to see the much larger picture.

P2P currency, exchanges and marketplaces are the way to avoid/bypass regulations. I think we need more effort on the marketplace part as I still cant buy two rolls and a pint of milk with BTC. Unfortunately bitcoin merchandise, precious metals and mining gears aren't edible .

[kelsey]

again the point of p2p currency is to be indifferent to regulation and if where smart enough/dedicated enough we can make this happen, people are just too busy scrounging around for small bits of fiat to see the much larger picture.

P2P currency, exchanges and marketplaces are the way to avoid/bypass regulations. I think we need more effort on the marketplace part as I still cant buy two rolls and a pint of milk with BTC. Unfortunately bitcoin merchandise, precious metals and mining gears aren't edible .

i agree early days yet, and we have to focus on the right direction, i personally don't consider bitcoin all that useful as a proper p2p currency (its kinda the distraction).