I'd like everybody's opinion on this...

[Honestbit]

What, if any, is the difference between a ponzi and a scam? These two terms seem to be used interchangeably more and more often here but their dictionary definitions are not the same. I would just like to know, in the context of bitcoins, how they are different or the same.

[1715027697]

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[tmfp]

A ponzi is a scam.
The operator knows that the core business (if there is one) cannot make enough to keep the ROI promises made to attract funds, so he uses new investors money to pay older ones, telling them that it is operating profit. Depending on the structure, this can last for a long time (see Madoff) and involve huge amounts. People will lose money because they have been lied to. The lie makes the ponzi makes the scam.

These "last one in loses" games played here are not scams in the same way, if the admin make it clear that is the basis of playing, but they can never be regarded as 'legit' because it cannot be proved that the admin isn't also playing nor is there is an equivalent to "provably fair" like dice sites.

Any venture in Bitcoin where you send money in the hope of getting it all/more back is vulnerable to scam should the admin run off as soon as his target has been reached, it doesn't have to have a ponzi structure.

Tl,dr: All ponzis are scams, but not all scams are ponzis.


With regard to your "Honest Bitcoin" site which has attracted negative trust, there is no way that you can prove the early deposits in each round are not your own, especially as you are in charge of the reset time. "Approximately 10pm EST" is bullshit and worth the negative trust on its own, as is

POINT C: Due to finite funds, later deposits run the risk of not receiving a payout

Not true, try:
 

FACT. Due to finite funds, the majority of players will lose money. The ones that do make money could be mine because I control the clock.

[Honestbit]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

[cryptodevil]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

What? That's fucking bollocks.

If I send bitcoin to Kraken I know damn well who I'm dealing with. If I send bitcoin to Expedia, Cheapair or any other of a multitude of valid companies who accept bitcoin payments I know who I am dealing with and I will not be scammed.

If I send bitcoin to some dodgy fucker on the internet who promises me he'll give me more bitcoin in return, it is highly likely I will be scammed.

Two entirely disparate transaction scenarios, both involving bitcoin, only one has an inherent risk of being scammed.

[JustDie]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

What? That's fucking bollocks.

If I send bitcoin to Kraken I know damn well who I'm dealing with. If I send bitcoin to Expedia, Cheapair or any other of a multitude of valid companies who accept bitcoin payments I know who I am dealing with and I will not be scammed.

If I send bitcoin to some dodgy fucker on the internet who promises me he'll give me more bitcoin in return, it is highly likely I will be scammed.

Two entirely disparate transaction scenarios, both involving bitcoin, only one has an inherent risk of being scammed.

thats why im hate internets , also the ponzi on internet. ponzi on this world (internet) is totaly scam idk when they will down but still will be a scam site

[Honestbit]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

What? That's fucking bollocks.

If I send bitcoin to Kraken I know damn well who I'm dealing with. If I send bitcoin to Expedia, Cheapair or any other of a multitude of valid companies who accept bitcoin payments I know who I am dealing with and I will not be scammed.

If I send bitcoin to some dodgy fucker on the internet who promises me he'll give me more bitcoin in return, it is highly likely I will be scammed.

Two entirely disparate transaction scenarios, both involving bitcoin, only one has an inherent risk of being scammed.

thats why im hate internets , also the ponzi on internet. ponzi on this world (internet) is totaly scam idk when they will down but still will be a scam site

Thank you both for contributing to the discussion. May I remind you that the topic is the difference between ponzis and scams, not the arbitrary hate that spews so abundantly from your mouths nowadays.

[cryptodevil]

As has already been pointed out, a Ponzi *is* a scam but not all scams are ponzis.

Even if you declare your 'scheme' to be a Ponzi you cannot prevent people who do not fully understand what it is from participating. So it ends up scamming them.

Oh, and as I already pointed out, your assertion about all bitcoin transactions having a risk of scam is utter twaddle. So take your tone complaint and shove it up your arse, scammer.

[Honestbit]

Even if you declare your 'scheme' to be a Ponzi you cannot prevent people who do not fully understand what it is from participating. So it ends up scamming them.

Oh I'm sorry. Maybe you should look closer at the bolded "Honest Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme" and Wikipedia link to what a ponzi scheme is? Or do I need it to be in the annoying 18 point red font like yours. Oh wait, speaking of yours, you don't include a link to what a ponzi is. That means that

people who do not fully understand what it is

won't understand. Oops. Maybe you should give yourself negative trust for wanting "help ponzi scammers steal from other users". Or maybe just for annoying the shit out of everyone on this forum.

[onlinedragon]

A ponzi is a scam.
The operator knows that the core business (if there is one) cannot make enough to keep the ROI promises made to attract funds, so he uses new investors money to pay older ones, telling them that it is operating profit. Depending on the structure, this can last for a long time (see Madoff) and involve huge amounts. People will lose money because they have been lied to. The lie makes the ponzi makes the scam.

These "last one in loses" games played here are not scams in the same way, if the admin make it clear that is the basis of playing, but they can never be regarded as 'legit' because it cannot be proved that the admin isn't also playing nor is there is an equivalent to "provably fair" like dice sites.

Any venture in Bitcoin where you send money in the hope of getting it all/more back is vulnerable to scam should the admin run off as soon as his target has been reached, it doesn't have to have a ponzi structure.

Tl,dr: All ponzis are scams, but not all scams are ponzis.


With regard to your "Honest Bitcoin" site which has attracted negative trust, there is no way that you can prove the early deposits in each round are not your own, especially as you are in charge of the reset time. "Approximately 10pm EST" is bullshit and worth the negative trust on its own, as is

POINT C: Due to finite funds, later deposits run the risk of not receiving a payout

Not true, try:
 

FACT. Due to finite funds, the majority of players will lose money. The ones that do make money could be mine because I control the clock.

I think this is an clear and good explanation of it. If you want to be sure if an service is possible a ponzi you could do some research before investment.

[cryptodevil]

I think this is an clear and good explanation of it. If you want to be sure if an service is possible a ponzi you could do some research before investment.

Good for you. Now, how about all those people for whom English is not a language they understand well and for whom Google Translate fails in properly conveying the nature of the ponzi scam, I mean 'scheme'?

Do you get it yet? If you run a scheme which requires finding a 'greater fool' in order to profit you cannot do so honestly if you are unable to guarantee 100% that all participants are fully informed as to the facts of the scam, I mean 'scheme'.

[Honestbit]

The basis of this system is risk and reward. The first deposits after 10 p.m. EST are more likely to get paid than the later ones. If you believe that you won't receive a payout because it is too late, then you can wait until the next round. I am sure that 100% of the people reading this has a very clear idea of how this scam works.

[shefchenko17]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

What? That's fucking bollocks.

If I send bitcoin to Kraken I know damn well who I'm dealing with. If I send bitcoin to Expedia, Cheapair or any other of a multitude of valid companies who accept bitcoin payments I know who I am dealing with and I will not be scammed.

If I send bitcoin to some dodgy fucker on the internet who promises me he'll give me more bitcoin in return, it is highly likely I will be scammed.

Two entirely disparate transaction scenarios, both involving bitcoin, only one has an inherent risk of being scammed.

Sometimes you say that it is sure sometimes you say "It is highly likely" ... but you are consistent in 1 thing. In calling everything a scam, before it actually begin its work. It is like (bad example btw) calling all the politicians liars, even if they are new and have just started their "work" in the politics. Yeah, we all know that they will eventually become sh*t but still... You could just make a  thread and warn everybody who is new here, not posting you "period" color text in all the threads.

[Slow death]

Absolutely. But because of the anonymous nature of bitcoin, sending any money anywhere includes a risk of being scammed.

What? That's fucking bollocks.

If I send bitcoin to Kraken I know damn well who I'm dealing with. If I send bitcoin to Expedia, Cheapair or any other of a multitude of valid companies who accept bitcoin payments I know who I am dealing with and I will not be scammed.

If I send bitcoin to some dodgy fucker on the internet who promises me he'll give me more bitcoin in return, it is highly likely I will be scammed.

Two entirely disparate transaction scenarios, both involving bitcoin, only one has an inherent risk of being scammed.

thats why im hate internets , also the ponzi on internet. ponzi on this world (internet) is totaly scam idk when they will down but still will be a scam site

[Decoded]

A ponzi is a type of scam, where people are paid from the other investor's investment.

A scam is the act of tricking someone to do something, usually with money m

[alwinlinzee]

a ponzi and a scam No doubt you are aware of what scam is, but if you dont know it is the same as loosing your money when you are very hopeful that you will not.
Ponzi is related to scam because they promise to pay you unrealistic percent of your investment and they will ended up not paying you anything and go away with your investment.

[Arcteryx]

There is a difference but they both end up the same, in the victim losing their investment in the end.
Ponzi is a pyramid in where there are other participants involved to keep the rouse going on long enough for the one at the top of the pyramid to cash out as much as they can. The longer it goes on for, the more the top person gets.
A scam is an attempt to cause fraud of an individual or a group of people out of all their money that they offer to put into the hands of the fraudster.
Careful being put into any of these situations. Get your facts straight before giving out your money or bitcoins.

[masterplague]

In my view they are both related lol.

One just prolongs the time of someones loss pretty much, all leading to one direction.

[Krayshock]

The only similarity of these words is that you are involved in both ponzi and scamming lol
Just don't try to make an argument about this, no one trusts you here.