No Mining = End of Bitcoin?

[HistoryBloke]

So I was driving home from work tonight and rather than listen to NPR as I normally do, I started thinking...

Am I correct in saying that our bitcoin mining machines are what send the BTC to each other, confirm all the transactions, and keep the Bitcoin network operating?  If yes, keep reading.  If no, never mind - sorry to have wasted your time.

If Yes...
People generally mine because it produces Bitcoin, not because of some grand noble gesture, right?  Well as the difficulty keeps increasing, older machines produce less and less.  To make BTC, machines need to hash faster and faster to compete with each other.  With less Bitcoin being produced, mining machines creating *more* heat, and requiring significantly more electricity to run (and cool) them... there has to come a time when mining will absolutely become an expense and will never make anybody money (even despite bulk sales or free electricity).  The machines would have to use so much electricity that *only* special businesses would be able to buy that kind of power (and it wouldn't be cheap).

People will start turning off miners and not even bothering to sell them because the market would be flooded with so much worthless mining equipment that nobody would dare use them (like trying to GPU mine Bitcoin at 60 Kh/s today). So after people stopped causing blackouts in neighborhoods because of the Antminer S89, and the greedy Chinese companies have shut down because they've mined the very last Bitcoin...what happens to Bitcoin?  If every single miner (even the silly little 3 Gh/s usb asics) were to turn off... would Bitcoin stop working?  If I were to send BTC to a friend, would it just stay unconfirmed forever?

Why would Bitcoin be designed to operate in such a terrible way?  I would never pay money monthly or install a 60db space heater in my house so I can keep Wells Fargo or Bank of America running, so what will be the motivation to keep Bitcoin running?  If governments keep ignoring or banning Bitcoin and it never becomes anything more than it is now, how could it possibly continue to exist?  I must be missing something, because why would someone purposely create a currency that self destructs?  Anyway... just a thought.

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[VirosaGITS]

No the BTC machines don't send money to each other. If they find a block solution, the pool will include some transactions in the block found.

And no, if BTC keep up, mining will always be profitable. If its not for 90% of the machines, then 90% of the machine will drop and the rest of the 10% will get 10x more.

[philipma1957]

No you just do not understand .   your state ment has the exact same meaning as the one below.


 If your grandma had testicles she would be your grand dad


key word is IF in both statements.

"If Yes"  to be exact in your idea.

[notlist3d]

If your grandma had testicles she would be your grand dad

key word is IF in both statements.

"If Yes"  to be exact in your idea.

Ohhh thank you for the many laughs philipma.  Was a funny as heck way to explain it gave me a unexpected laugh.

Also OP you are forgetting sadly most mining is done at mega mines with industrial size miners.   Us home/hobby people still exist but are becoming less and less of the hashrate.   What will be the long term of this?  Not really sure.  But I don't see no mining happening anytime soon. 

And if bitcoin did fail (i don't see it happening anytime soon) I foresee there will always be a crypto currency that is used.  It just seems like technology that will not go away.

[dantanas]

As I understand mining still has years to go, and when mining is done, transaction fees will keep machines running.

[HistoryBloke]

As I understand mining still has years to go, and when mining is done, transaction fees will keep machines running.

Transaction fees?  Isn't that counter intuitive?  One of the big selling points of Bitcoin is that you can send BTC anywhere around the world for free.  Charging transaction fees is becoming another Western Union or Paypal.
 

[notlist3d]

As I understand mining still has years to go, and when mining is done, transaction fees will keep machines running.

Transaction fees?  Isn't that counter intuitive?  One of the big selling points of Bitcoin is that you can send BTC anywhere around the world for free.  Charging transaction fees is becoming another Western Union or Paypal.
 

You really have some reading to do on BTC. .  No transaction fee's are not counter intuitive to long term goals.

Reward ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining#Reward )
When a block is discovered, the discoverer may award themselves a certain number of bitcoins, which is agreed-upon by everyone in the network. Currently this bounty is 25 bitcoins; this value will halve every 210,000 blocks. See Controlled Currency Supply.

Additionally, the miner is awarded the fees paid by users sending transactions. The fee is an incentive for the miner to include the transaction in their block. In the future, as the number of new bitcoins miners are allowed to create in each block dwindles, the fees will make up a much more important percentage of mining income.

Don't want to post it all but good info here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

[philipma1957]

The network will not be miner less. And run at 1th or less.

I certainly can afford to run an s-7 at freq 200 which is about 1600gh and costs 400 watts a day

That is 10 kwatts a day or 300 kwatts a month at ten cents 30 bucks a month.

I can spend that for the next 30 years easy.  So if I can do that others will to.   So like I said the if the op is asking is not going to happen.


Other tricks can happen but zero hash rate not likely

[Amph]

As I understand mining still has years to go, and when mining is done, transaction fees will keep machines running.

Transaction fees?  Isn't that counter intuitive?  One of the big selling points of Bitcoin is that you can send BTC anywhere around the world for free.  Charging transaction fees is becoming another Western Union or Paypal.
 

this can be a problem if tx fee will be too high in the future, certainly true for microtransaction, it must be reviewed or changed to allow micro fee for microtransaction

but it yet to be seen where this whole thing is going

[leowonderful]

No mining will probably never happen. All altcoins no matter how small usually have some cheap miner running 24/7 to process transactions and at least keep up the infrastructure. I run a personal altcoin and I have an old Block Erupter processing my own payments that I make to myself. Without mining I assume bitcoin will just end, but seriously, there will always be at least 1 hash/s of power on bitcoin no matter what happens, and blocks will continue to be mined.

[notlist3d]

The network will not be miner less. And run at 1th or less.

I certainly can afford to run an s-7 at freq 200 which is about 1600gh and costs 400 watts a day

That is 10 kwatts a day or 300 kwatts a month at ten cents 30 bucks a month.

I can spend that for the next 30 years easy.  So if I can do that others will to.   So like I said the if the op is asking is not going to happen.


Other tricks can happen but zero hash rate not likely

I kinda feel it's the same territory as 51 percent attack here.  We can think of many things that would straight out kill BTC.... but they will never happen.   No BTC pool making big money would do 51 percent attack and kill future profits.   Just like there will always be miners.

And you have a good point if bitcoin tanks there will always be some (including myself) who will have a machine running out of pure joy.  I want to make ROI.  But if BTC failed.... I think a surprising number would still mine a small amount.  I also think crypto currency will be here long after today, I think BTC looks like good bet long term.  But if it failed it would there would be another to pop up.  But again BTC is like the gold standard.... so would take huge jump for it to fall.

[Tmdz]

The one thing OP is missing is that difficulty will adjust to the hash rate the network currently has.  So like every industry if there are lots of competitors willing to invest to make very small profit they will continue in that direction.  Also Just like most industry's we have given away the manufacturing to the Chinese due to the simple fact they can produce huge volume at very low prices.  No one can really compete with that

[Appuned]

The one thing OP is missing is that difficulty will adjust to the hash rate the network currently has.  So like every industry if there are lots of competitors willing to invest to make very small profit they will continue in that direction.  Also Just like most industry's we have given away the manufacturing to the Chinese due to the simple fact they can produce huge volume at very low prices.  No one can really compete with that

That is right. There will always mining if the bitcoin transaction happens. The fee should support the network.

[Gubzy]

I think if mining stopped, bitcoin would still be going, just no more would be generated.

[notlist3d]

I think if mining stopped, bitcoin would still be going, just no more would be generated.

Mining would never stop there will be people who would run machines even if financial loss and chalk it up as a hobby.   So there will always be some there.  And I think the mega mining centers pay pennies per KWH so little they are going to be hard not to profit... so don't see mega mines stopping.

This is kinda a scare topic of something that will never happen.  And with BTC on a upswing on value... this really does not make sense as of now.

[philipma1957]

I think if mining stopped, bitcoin would still be going, just no more would be generated.

I will mine bitcoin as long as there is  a block chain. ( there are many people that will do this)


 So the question was pointless.  I am surprised the mods have not closed the thread.

[olarsson]

I think there is a risk of bitcoin infrastructure deteriorating when mining becomes unprofitable. The solution would be new much better cheap chips with low energy cost that can earn transaction fees. Something like this: http://bitfury.com/products#16nm-asic

[notlist3d]

I think there is a risk of bitcoin infrastructure deteriorating when mining becomes unprofitable. The solution would be new much better cheap chips with low energy cost that can earn transaction fees. Something like this: http://bitfury.com/products#16nm-asic

There will always be miners so this is kinda a moot thread.  Many would run a miner for fun to keep network alive, i don't think it will ever have 0 miners.   I just don't see it.

On new chips only thing is mega mines get those same chips and pay pennies per KWH, so they are still ahead of hobby miner.  We really cannot catch up without having a HUGE investment.  In a lot of cases like bitfury you mentioned I bet it goes to many big mega farms before (and if we even get chance) to buy it.

[ultimatesky]

I think if mining stopped, bitcoin would still be going, just no more would be generated.

I will mine bitcoin as long as there is  a block chain. ( there are many people that will do this)


 So the question was pointless.  I am surprised the mods have not closed the thread.

There will always be a group of so called die hards whom will always mine. But most of the miners or mining for commercial gain. If the market will not correct it will come to an end. Simply because there will be too less miners to confirm all these transactions.

[Dinki]

When all the 21M coins have been mined. Miners will make their money from transaction fees, so they still need those mining machines anyhow.