The international economy is about to crash. Bitcoin WILL explode upwards.

[sublime5447]

I do understand that. I am powerless to change anything, but ideas are more powerful than armies,governments and markets. Good ideas dont require force,people will adjust their behavior all on their own. The mindset of the market will change it will have to to survive. IMO. It will be interesting to watch. All of it is fascinating, we are living through an amazing time. 

[Walter Rothbard]

The mindset of the market will change it will have to to survive. IMO.

You want the market to change to not want people to build up huge piles of capital?

Then we will never get the services that we need.

The huge piles of capital serve us.  Look at the successful bitcoin businesses.  They had to have big piles of capital.  As examples, check out Tangible Cryptography and bitinstant.  Nobody could do what they do without accumulating big reserves first.

[cypherdoc]

I do understand that. I am powerless to change anything, but ideas are more powerful than armies,governments and markets. Good ideas dont require force,people will adjust their behavior all on their own. The mindset of the market will change it will have to to survive. IMO. It will be interesting to watch. All of it is fascinating, we are living through an amazing time. 

i think what you really want, while not knowing it as a small individual exchanger, is for the Bitcoin market to find its fair value price as fast as possible.  once it achieves that, volatility will damp down markedly and your profit margins can be more assured and less risky.

you can't fault hoarders at this point in time b/c they are part of the market and what they are telling you is that we are not there yet.  and the even bigger problem for you and your business is that it could be years and at a much higher price point for that to happen.

what i would suggest is instead of trying to fight the market and its movements, try to understand Bitcoin a bit better.  i know i learn something everyday and i've been at this awhile.  once you get a better understanding of why the price keeps rising, you will be better equipped to structure your business around those principles.

[sublime5447]

I do understand that. I am powerless to change anything, but ideas are more powerful than armies,governments and markets. Good ideas dont require force,people will adjust their behavior all on their own. The mindset of the market will change it will have to to survive. IMO. It will be interesting to watch. All of it is fascinating, we are living through an amazing time. 

i think what you really want, while not knowing it as a small individual exchanger, is for the Bitcoin market to find its fair value price as fast as possible.  once it achieves that, volatility will damp down markedly and your profit margins can be more assured and less risky.

you can't fault hoarders at this point in time b/c they are part of the market and what they are telling you is that we are not there yet.  and the even bigger problem for you and your business is that it could be years and at a much higher price point for that to happen.

what i would suggest is instead of trying to fight the market and its movements, try to understand Bitcoin a bit better.  i know i learn something everyday and i've been at this awhile.  once you get a better understanding of why the price keeps rising, you will be better equipped to structure your business around those principles.

I think we are in perfect agreement here.  . I would like to see a network of regionally distributed verified exchanges run by individuals. The exchanges are a weak spot for btc. If gox gets shut down btc goes back to 2 bucks maybe less. I want it decentralized as much as is possible. As far as the previous comment by walter block I would say that those services do little to increase mass adoption of BTC. I see them as financial institutions that weaken BTC. People simply are not going to go and WU,MG,MP,BT, funds in mass. To me all road to BTC mass adoption run through PP. I dont like it but that is the way I see it. People have to be able to get coins without leaving the house or paying a bunch of fees. It has to be easy. If we had a network of sellers then we could monitor fraud, sell for multiple payment methods (PP, cash in person,bank transfers, barter), increase customer reputation reports and seller reputation reports, and hedge against market moves. A great business would be a reputaion/verification service, that would verify your identity and that you are the account holder and a history of trades. That is what is so powerful about the way that I handle scammers. I only allow people to buy from me who have liked me on facebook. So I know that one of two things are true. Either your are the account holder or someone has hacked your whole life. My selling procedure goes as follows. You like our page, you send and email form the email address associated with the account, sometimes I check the phone too then I check everything, The name on the PP matches the Fb the email matches the PP the location matches the address the Ip matches the address or region the phone matches. So either someone has assess your email, FB, Phone,and PP or you are the account holder. The other thing that I do is start with 1 coin then after 24 hours you can buy up to 5 then after another 48 you can buy up to 10 the limit is set at ten till 90 days has past after that 20 then after another 90 days we can raise limits again. So if someone scams me i know who they are and where the live and their family members. I had one person scam me under that situation. He is user name bogbrush on otc. But I know that his real name is scott harding and that he lives in durham,durham in the UK he has been put on my scammer wall (my personal list of confirmed scammers).. BTW if you want to add confirmed scammers let me know. Would prefer if you knew FB page but will post email or IP address. They must be confirmed scammers 

[sublime5447]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the risk then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

[XxionxX]

All of it is fascinating, we are living through an amazing time. 

I'm not sure I would describe the collapse of the world's financial markets in this manner.

[cypherdoc]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

[Melbustus]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

Yeah, similar network idea, but via PayPal, not cash... As a web-developer and entrepreneur, that's something I could be interested in being involved with. Fully vet the individual exchangers, and maybe set up an insurance system whereby they pay you a small fee in exchange for insurance as well as the exposure through your network. No idea how to price that; would obviously require an understanding of fraud rates and so forth to price properly...

But I really like the idea of a network of *verified* exchangers using PayPal. As noted, they'd need to be vetted *well*, and would have to agree to the business model you set forth (which minimizes fraud-risk via various checks, etc). If it can be structured in such that they get some insurance out of it, and you get the stability of premiums (and can use the float to offset some currency risk), it could be pretty nice.

[sublime5447]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

Yeah, similar network idea, but via PayPal, not cash... As a web-developer and entrepreneur, that's something I could be interested in being involved with. Fully vet the individual exchangers, and maybe set up an insurance system whereby they pay you a small fee in exchange for insurance as well as the exposure through your network. No idea how to price that; would obviously require an understanding of fraud rates and so forth to price properly...

But I really like the idea of a network of *verified* exchangers using PayPal. As noted, they'd need to be vetted *well*, and would have to agree to the business model you set forth (which minimizes fraud-risk via various checks, etc). If it can be structured in such that they get some insurance out of it, and you get the stability of premiums (and can use the float to offset some currency risk), it could be pretty nice.

Thanks.
I would really just like to get paid for verifying and insuring transactions with in the network. Maybe a one time fee for verification and and a ongoing fee for insurance. All sellers in the network refer new potential customers to me for verification. They would pay a subscription fee up front, then a fee every time I verify a new customer then a monthly issuance fee. The way to set up sellers is regionally as we added new sellers it would get more and more decentralized. Maybe getting to the point that the sellers are selling in their own city. Of course they could sell to people they know with out the verification process, obviously we wouldnt insure those transactions (unless the want us to)   

[Walter Rothbard]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

Yeah, similar network idea, but via PayPal, not cash... As a web-developer and entrepreneur, that's something I could be interested in being involved with. Fully vet the individual exchangers, and maybe set up an insurance system whereby they pay you a small fee in exchange for insurance as well as the exposure through your network. No idea how to price that; would obviously require an understanding of fraud rates and so forth to price properly...

But I really like the idea of a network of *verified* exchangers using PayPal. As noted, they'd need to be vetted *well*, and would have to agree to the business model you set forth (which minimizes fraud-risk via various checks, etc). If it can be structured in such that they get some insurance out of it, and you get the stability of premiums (and can use the float to offset some currency risk), it could be pretty nice.

What about skipping Paypal and just using a credit card processor?

[Walter Rothbard]

As far as the previous comment by walter block

While I am proud to be mistaken for Walter Block, I am not he.

[sublime5447]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

Yeah, similar network idea, but via PayPal, not cash... As a web-developer and entrepreneur, that's something I could be interested in being involved with. Fully vet the individual exchangers, and maybe set up an insurance system whereby they pay you a small fee in exchange for insurance as well as the exposure through your network. No idea how to price that; would obviously require an understanding of fraud rates and so forth to price properly...

But I really like the idea of a network of *verified* exchangers using PayPal. As noted, they'd need to be vetted *well*, and would have to agree to the business model you set forth (which minimizes fraud-risk via various checks, etc). If it can be structured in such that they get some insurance out of it, and you get the stability of premiums (and can use the float to offset some currency risk), it could be pretty nice.

What about skipping Paypal and just using a credit card processor?

Cant skip paypal I sell btc on ebay for pp. I dont want to stop because I get good margins although much higher risk to sell though ebay, I do also take a debit and credit through google checkout for my verified customers. They have to upload a copy of their drivers licence and fill out a form saying they wont charge back and then sign it with docusign. It is a little more work for me to take debit card. I also heard they where going to start charging higher prices for cc fees.

I know you aren't Murry rothbard? reincarnated?

[Walter Rothbard]

I know you aren't Murry rothbard? reincarnated?

Lol, I wish.  No relation.

[Walter Rothbard]

Another great business idea it to start an insurance pool to insure btc transactions, I would like to see the indvidual sellers contribute to the fund and then create a claims process. I have no idea how to make that run in a decentralized way, but in my view if the problem with individuals selling to one another is the problem then the way to fix it is to insure the transactions.

why don't you set up a competitor to localbitcoins?  i don't know anything about them but they seem to be one of a kind.  i would think there'd be room in the market.

Yeah, similar network idea, but via PayPal, not cash... As a web-developer and entrepreneur, that's something I could be interested in being involved with. Fully vet the individual exchangers, and maybe set up an insurance system whereby they pay you a small fee in exchange for insurance as well as the exposure through your network. No idea how to price that; would obviously require an understanding of fraud rates and so forth to price properly...

But I really like the idea of a network of *verified* exchangers using PayPal. As noted, they'd need to be vetted *well*, and would have to agree to the business model you set forth (which minimizes fraud-risk via various checks, etc). If it can be structured in such that they get some insurance out of it, and you get the stability of premiums (and can use the float to offset some currency risk), it could be pretty nice.

What about skipping Paypal and just using a credit card processor?

Cant skip paypal I sell btc on ebay for pp. I dont want to stop because I get good margins although much higher risk to sell though ebay, I do also take a debit and credit through google checkout for my verified customers. They have to upload a copy of their drivers licence and fill out a form saying they wont charge back and then sign it with docusign. It is a little more work for me to take debit card. I also heard they where going to start charging higher prices for cc fees.

It would be nice if somebody could create an exchange where people can get money in through a credit card processor, using models similar to those discussed here to minimize the risk of chargeback.  Somebody was floating the idea of doing this with paypal, but I think the idea is even better if paypal can be skipped altogether.