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Author Topic: Bitcoing gambling server hosting  (Read 6575 times)
Mvann
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February 08, 2013, 03:54:17 PM
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Hi,

Im looking into developing a small bitcoin gambling site, however im unsure about what hosting company I should go for. I assume it should preferably be a non US host.. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks
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February 08, 2013, 04:00:50 PM
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Just find one from a country who hates America, and wont extradite, nor send the US any information if they ask.

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February 08, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
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Just find one from a country who hates America, and wont extradite, nor send the US any information if they ask.

Code:
Countries which have neither diplomatic relations nor extradition treaties with the US are Andorra, Angola, Bantu Homelands, Bhutan, Bosnia, Cambodia, Ciskei, Cuba, Iran, Korea (North), Libya, Maldives, Serbia, Somalia, Taiwan, Transkei, Vanuatu, and Vietnam.

Those might not be the best web hosting countries.

I beleive that satoshidice is hosted in Ireland at least that's what a reverse lookup of their ip 54.247.163.243 says

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February 08, 2013, 05:35:45 PM
 #4

Germany and France have good network infrastructure, high competition on hosting market and no extradition of own citizens.
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February 08, 2013, 08:26:57 PM
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I beleive that satoshidice is hosted in Ireland at least that's what a reverse lookup of their ip 54.247.163.243 says

Looks like an Amazon server.  I wonder how much protection being in Ireland would give them if the US government put pressure on Amazon.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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    ██████████████████████   
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   Play or Invest                 ██             
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February 08, 2013, 08:28:37 PM
 #6

If you really mean small then they might not be for you, but OrangeWebsite.com is in Iceland and has been reliable and helpful for over a year. They accept bitcoin.

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February 08, 2013, 09:37:23 PM
 #7

If you really mean small then they might not be for you, but OrangeWebsite.com is in Iceland and has been reliable and helpful for over a year. They accept bitcoin.

By small I mean big, hehe.

Are there other bitcoin casino sites hosted with Orangewebsite?

I cant seem to find any information like "the best would be to host in this country.."  etc or something similar, I hope someone has some information or know what steps to take. Any good advise will be rewarded once we are up and running Smiley
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February 08, 2013, 10:34:23 PM
 #8

If you really mean small then they might not be for you, but OrangeWebsite.com is in Iceland and has been reliable and helpful for over a year. They accept bitcoin.

By small I mean big, hehe.

Are there other bitcoin casino sites hosted with Orangewebsite?

I cant seem to find any information like "the best would be to host in this country.."  etc or something similar, I hope someone has some information or know what steps to take. Any good advise will be rewarded once we are up and running Smiley

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

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February 09, 2013, 03:01:06 AM
 #9

Costa Rica based companies serve US facing sportsbooks.

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February 09, 2013, 03:13:19 AM
 #10

i have a German VPS than you can use for a small price, pm me if interested.

Bitbook.biz - The best odds and quickest transactions of any BTC sportsbook
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February 09, 2013, 02:31:24 PM
 #11

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Seems there's a lot of misinformation and basic misunderstandings here. Whenever I see this topic come up in the non-BTC gambling world, I see the same vague and incorrect suggestions over and over.

Just because online gambling is legal in a country does not mean you can host an unlicensed site there. The UK has a very strict licensing regiment with master licenses costing around £500,000 per year. Hosting unlicensed games on a server there is a quick way to get booted by your hosting company who is required to comply with UK law.

It is, however, legal to serve games from offshore into the UK, if they are legal in the country where they're hosted. The key here under UK law is "where the bet is struck". The bet is considered to be struck where the server is. Since the UK abides by international trade laws (which the US refuses to sign onto), they have to allow their citizens to strike bets in another country so long as those bets are legal under that country's law.

Now here's where it gets interesting. There is no jurisdiction on earth where it's legal to host an online gambling site without a government-issued license, except for Costa Rica. Costa Rica requires something called a "data-processing license" but it is not strictly a license (more a way of incorporating) and is not subject to gambling regulation as such. The reason for this is that, for historical reasons and thanks to a byzantine Napoleonic legal structure, Costa Rica contradicts the rest of the world (except, interestingly, the United States) and considers the bet to be struck on the user's computer, not where the servers are. So they see nothing wrong with hosting a casino there. What you're not allowed to do in Costa Rica, if you host there, is take Costa Rican players. Because then you'd be breaking their law by running an on-shore casino. Funky, right?

It is certainly illegal to host a gaming site in Ireland without an Irish gaming license (this came into force several years ago; before that Ireland had no specific legislation on it and it wasn't prosecuted).

However, the vagaries of where a bet is "struck" leave open a number of interesting loopholes for the clever site operator. For example, some countries which require a license to host gambling have various amnesties in their laws to attract business, which allow back-office operations to be run there, even downloads to be served there, so long as the bet isn't struck there. Some will consider the location of the RNG to be where the bet is struck, and others consider it to be where the player connects to the game server (assuming those are two different machines). Hosting in Costa Rica is enormously expensive, the bandwidth is terrible and the service is nonexistent. So many companies host their primary website there and serve the games elsewhere.

The ONLY way you can be sure that what you're doing in a particular country is legal is to hire a gambling attorney in that country to advise you and, if possible, put an opinion on it in writing. The safest route for a casino not willing to pay for a governmental license is to get incorporated in Costa Rica for $1000 or so and serve the games and RNG from there; and then put your non-gambling stuff like videos, graphics, sounds, etc. on faster servers wherever you want. I like http://nohostsland.com for finding servers in odd parts of the world. But DO NOT consider sticking gambling services on one of these VPS's, or on a server anywhere in the EU without a proper license from the country you're serving from.

If you have the money, some countries which offer packaged license/hosting/banking arrangements are: Malta, Curacao, the Isle of Man, Kahnawake (First Nations, Canada), Belize, Antigua; and on the top shelf, the UK, Australia, France and Italy (primarily for domestic markets).

Also be aware that the UK classifies two types of offshore casinos: Those licensed in the EU or with a country whose gaming regime is recognized by the EU (e.g. Curacao), and those not recognized (e.g. Costa Rica). While it is not illegal for a Costa Rica casino to take UK players, it is illegal in the UK for Costa Rica based casinos to advertise in print, on radio or television. Again, lots of rules, so the best advice? Lawyer up and don't take advice that could land you in jail from anonymous people on the internet.

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February 09, 2013, 02:44:04 PM
 #12

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Seems there's a lot of misinformation and basic misunderstandings here. Whenever I see this topic come up in the non-BTC gambling world, I see the same vague and incorrect suggestions over and over.

Just because online gambling is legal in a country does not mean you can host an unlicensed site there. The UK has a very strict licensing regiment with master licenses costing around £500,000 per year. Hosting unlicensed games on a server there is a quick way to get booted by your hosting company who is required to comply with UK law.

It is, however, legal to serve games from offshore into the UK, if they are legal in the country where they're hosted. The key here under UK law is "where the bet is struck". The bet is considered to be struck where the server is. Since the UK abides by international trade laws (which the US refuses to sign onto), they have to allow their citizens to strike bets in another country so long as those bets are legal under that country's law.

Now here's where it gets interesting. There is no jurisdiction on earth where it's legal to host an online gambling site without a government-issued license, except for Costa Rica. Costa Rica requires something called a "data-processing license" but it is not strictly a license (more a way of incorporating) and is not subject to gambling regulation as such. The reason for this is that, for historical reasons and thanks to a byzantine Napoleonic legal structure, Costa Rica contradicts the rest of the world (except, interestingly, the United States) and considers the bet to be struck on the user's computer, not where the servers are. So they see nothing wrong with hosting a casino there. What you're not allowed to do in Costa Rica, if you host there, is take Costa Rican players. Because then you'd be breaking their law by running an on-shore casino. Funky, right?

It is certainly illegal to host a gaming site in Ireland without an Irish gaming license (this came into force several years ago; before that Ireland had no specific legislation on it and it wasn't prosecuted).

However, the vagaries of where a bet is "struck" leave open a number of interesting loopholes for the clever site operator. For example, some countries which require a license to host gambling have various amnesties in their laws to attract business, which allow back-office operations to be run there, even downloads to be served there, so long as the bet isn't struck there. Some will consider the location of the RNG to be where the bet is struck, and others consider it to be where the player connects to the game server (assuming those are two different machines). Hosting in Costa Rica is enormously expensive, the bandwidth is terrible and the service is nonexistent. So many companies host their primary website there and serve the games elsewhere.

The ONLY way you can be sure that what you're doing in a particular country is legal is to hire a gambling attorney in that country to advise you and, if possible, put an opinion on it in writing. The safest route for a casino not willing to pay for a governmental license is to get incorporated in Costa Rica for $1000 or so and serve the games and RNG from there; and then put your non-gambling stuff like videos, graphics, sounds, etc. on faster servers wherever you want. I like http://nohostsland.com for finding servers in odd parts of the world. But DO NOT consider sticking gambling services on one of these VPS's, or on a server anywhere in the EU without a proper license from the country you're serving from.

If you have the money, some countries which offer packaged license/hosting/banking arrangements are: Malta, Curacao, the Isle of Man, Kahnawake (First Nations, Canada), Belize, Antigua; and on the top shelf, the UK, Australia, France and Italy (primarily for domestic markets).

Also be aware that the UK classifies two types of offshore casinos: Those licensed in the EU or with a country whose gaming regime is recognized by the EU (e.g. Curacao), and those not recognized (e.g. Costa Rica). While it is not illegal for a Costa Rica casino to take UK players, it is illegal in the UK for Costa Rica based casinos to advertise in print, on radio or television. Again, lots of rules, so the best advice? Lawyer up and don't take advice that could land you in jail from anonymous people on the internet.

Couldn't be put any better, thanks for taking the time to put things in perspective for everyone.

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Mvann
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February 10, 2013, 08:03:26 PM
 #13

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Seems there's a lot of misinformation and basic misunderstandings here. Whenever I see this topic come up in the non-BTC gambling world, I see the same vague and incorrect suggestions over and over.

Just because online gambling is legal in a country does not mean you can host an unlicensed site there. The UK has a very strict licensing regiment with master licenses costing around £500,000 per year. Hosting unlicensed games on a server there is a quick way to get booted by your hosting company who is required to comply with UK law.

It is, however, legal to serve games from offshore into the UK, if they are legal in the country where they're hosted. The key here under UK law is "where the bet is struck". The bet is considered to be struck where the server is. Since the UK abides by international trade laws (which the US refuses to sign onto), they have to allow their citizens to strike bets in another country so long as those bets are legal under that country's law.

Now here's where it gets interesting. There is no jurisdiction on earth where it's legal to host an online gambling site without a government-issued license, except for Costa Rica. Costa Rica requires something called a "data-processing license" but it is not strictly a license (more a way of incorporating) and is not subject to gambling regulation as such. The reason for this is that, for historical reasons and thanks to a byzantine Napoleonic legal structure, Costa Rica contradicts the rest of the world (except, interestingly, the United States) and considers the bet to be struck on the user's computer, not where the servers are. So they see nothing wrong with hosting a casino there. What you're not allowed to do in Costa Rica, if you host there, is take Costa Rican players. Because then you'd be breaking their law by running an on-shore casino. Funky, right?

It is certainly illegal to host a gaming site in Ireland without an Irish gaming license (this came into force several years ago; before that Ireland had no specific legislation on it and it wasn't prosecuted).

However, the vagaries of where a bet is "struck" leave open a number of interesting loopholes for the clever site operator. For example, some countries which require a license to host gambling have various amnesties in their laws to attract business, which allow back-office operations to be run there, even downloads to be served there, so long as the bet isn't struck there. Some will consider the location of the RNG to be where the bet is struck, and others consider it to be where the player connects to the game server (assuming those are two different machines). Hosting in Costa Rica is enormously expensive, the bandwidth is terrible and the service is nonexistent. So many companies host their primary website there and serve the games elsewhere.

The ONLY way you can be sure that what you're doing in a particular country is legal is to hire a gambling attorney in that country to advise you and, if possible, put an opinion on it in writing. The safest route for a casino not willing to pay for a governmental license is to get incorporated in Costa Rica for $1000 or so and serve the games and RNG from there; and then put your non-gambling stuff like videos, graphics, sounds, etc. on faster servers wherever you want. I like http://nohostsland.com for finding servers in odd parts of the world. But DO NOT consider sticking gambling services on one of these VPS's, or on a server anywhere in the EU without a proper license from the country you're serving from.

If you have the money, some countries which offer packaged license/hosting/banking arrangements are: Malta, Curacao, the Isle of Man, Kahnawake (First Nations, Canada), Belize, Antigua; and on the top shelf, the UK, Australia, France and Italy (primarily for domestic markets).

Also be aware that the UK classifies two types of offshore casinos: Those licensed in the EU or with a country whose gaming regime is recognized by the EU (e.g. Curacao), and those not recognized (e.g. Costa Rica). While it is not illegal for a Costa Rica casino to take UK players, it is illegal in the UK for Costa Rica based casinos to advertise in print, on radio or television. Again, lots of rules, so the best advice? Lawyer up and don't take advice that could land you in jail from anonymous people on the internet.

Thanks that was very informative.

I do think this applies to regular gambling, but maybe not all to "bitcoin gambling"

I know satushidice is hosted in Ireland and sealswithclubs in Iceland, both without a license if im correct. So im very unsure about what would be the best approach still. I appears that those sites have come to the conclusion that the gambling laws does not apply to "bitcoin gambling" and they suprisingly went for an EU host..  Seems risky.

About Costa Rica, Ive heard that it has gotten significantly more expensive to operate from there, and as you mentioned the hosting alternatives there are terrible.

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February 10, 2013, 08:37:04 PM
 #14

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Actually it isn't false, due to the fact that he does want to setup a bitcoin gambling site, I researched it out, the UK is perfectly fine for bitcoin gambling if you were to start accepting Euros you be in trouble.

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February 10, 2013, 08:54:56 PM
 #15

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Actually it isn't false, due to the fact that he does want to setup a bitcoin gambling site, I researched it out, the UK is perfectly fine for bitcoin gambling if you were to start accepting Euros you be in trouble.

Show me the law, and show me a UK host that wouldn't pull the plug on it and leave all the customers Shit Outta Luck at the first inquiry from the police.

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February 10, 2013, 10:07:27 PM
 #16

Any country with legal online gambling should be fine, UK could be one place.

This is completely false.

Actually it isn't false, due to the fact that he does want to setup a bitcoin gambling site, I researched it out, the UK is perfectly fine for bitcoin gambling if you were to start accepting Euros you be in trouble.

Show me the law, and show me a UK host that wouldn't pull the plug on it and leave all the customers Shit Outta Luck at the first inquiry from the police.

Cause they use bitcoin and not real money Smiley

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February 10, 2013, 11:25:15 PM
 #17

Cause they use bitcoin and not real money Smiley

My God. I can't believe I paid all these lawyers for advice when the answer was so simple. Roll Eyes

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February 10, 2013, 11:45:17 PM
 #18

Cause they use bitcoin and not real money Smiley

My God. I can't believe I paid all these lawyers for advice when the answer was so simple. Roll Eyes

You do know that most lawyers are over cautious when it comes to money and casino things like this

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February 11, 2013, 12:56:08 AM
 #19

Costa Rica: http://www.cyberfuel.com/contact-cyberfuel

no sign of btc acceptance (yet) Cheesy

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February 12, 2013, 06:29:37 PM
 #20

LOL. Under no circumstances use cyberfuel unless you're happy with a 50Mbps uplink and a 500 Mb monthly cap for an absurd amount of money in a totally insecure location. From what I know, that company is basically one guy with a couple PCs and a cable modem. A lawyer who incorporates you in Costa Rica will be able to point you to a decent hosting service. Although due to the lack of bandwidth in country it will still be significantly more expensive than what you'd see in the States.

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