Kano vs Bitsyncom

[mobodick]

Note: After reading through these threads it is clear this discussion/request has turned in to Political Statement about Open Source and trying to prove something.   He said is will be released in 30 days so there you have it.  

Linksys used open source software in their routers for quite some time before they finally released the source to be compliant with GPL.  

Bottomline is that they are working in small team with a tight deadline against stiff competition and they have made it clear that consist bashing, name calling and nagging is not going to affect their decision or speed up the 30 days window.  

Leave it be, come back in 30 days if nothing has happened and go lick your wounded egos.  

Disclosure:  Being a paying customer I care about ship time over GPL at this point, once it fully ships, that is another story.  My company provides Asterisk PBX systems running on Linux so I understand the arguement, don't get me wrong.

Prove this and you might have a point.
Any deadlines are voluntary and the competition is butterfly "the chips will be on their way soon" labs.

It is quite clear to anyone who can read the many posts and evaluate the information.


Also it is not about playing nice or not, the point is no matter how much you bitch or make hard statements, will not make them move any faster and only alienates you from getting to your goals.  Use tact and strategy and you will 9 times out of 10 get what you want faster and burn less bridges.

I've read many of the posts and the 'competition' is late by months. Avalon now has a huge lead and should have more than enough time to get the source code together.
The deadlines were for avalon to set so there is no excuse for not having time to do source release.
The source code release should be part of the product.
In fact, the license states that a written voucher should have been provided as well.

It is not about bitching not making a difference either. It is about trusting avalon or not.
Avalon may be popular now but they can easily be beaten next generation. So the arrogance they show now can become fatal even this year.
The question is who needs who more. The community avalon or avalon the community?
My view is they should be respectfull of having this opportunity to apply their skills.

Anyway, it was not me who came up with the words playing nice.

[Syke]

The community should not have to play nice to have source code released.

Playing nice has worked so well in the past:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

How are we tying an article about Bitcoin scams and getting source code released together?  I am at a loss?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

If the scams go unpunished, more scams will result.
If license violations go unpunished, more license violations will result.
"playing nice" just encourages more people to break the law/license/etc.

[jgarzik]

If the scams go unpunished, more scams will result.
If license violations go unpunished, more license violations will result.
"playing nice" just encourages more people to break the law/license/etc.

Read the links previously posted.  People with actual experience dealing with GPL violations disagree WRT playing nice.

It's also just common sense, Human Relationships 101.

[Dalkore]

The community should not have to play nice to have source code released.

Playing nice has worked so well in the past:

http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

How are we tying an article about Bitcoin scams and getting source code released together?  I am at a loss?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

If the scams go unpunished, more scams will result.
If license violations go unpunished, more license violations will result.
"playing nice" just encourages more people to break the law/license/etc.

Ok you and the above post does have merit.  I guess how I am feeling is that this is a small project in the scheme of things and I wouldn't feel the inclination to flame a small company while in their initial phase of releasing to the public.

What say you? 

[mobodick]

If the scams go unpunished, more scams will result.
If license violations go unpunished, more license violations will result.
"playing nice" just encourages more people to break the law/license/etc.

It's also just common sense, Human Relationships 101.

Human relationship 101 is not going to help you if the other side unilateraly changes an agreement.
In fact, according to my human relationship manual it should be avalon apologizing to the community for breaking the license.
You try to somehow turn it all upside down.

[Syke]

Human relationship 101 is not going to help you if the other side unilateraly changes an agreement.
In fact, according to my human relationship manual it should be avalon apologizing to the community for breaking the license.
You try to somehow turn it all upside down.

Of course he's defending them. He's earning $270 profit per day because Avalon shipped only him an ASIC unit and he can rake in the bitcoins before the difficulty adjusts.

[PuertoLibre]

The one thing I don't understand in all this flameage is why Jeff Garzik isn't championing the request for source from Avalon. Jeff?

After certain people made that task considerably more difficult?

Awwww ... it's more difficult to ask now? ... for the source that was available at least 24 days ago?
I guess that means all this sucking up to Avalon has caused continuous deterioration of your brain over the last 24 days and it's getting more difficult to join all those big words of more than 3 letters together.

It is difficult to summon the motivation.

Difficulty finding the  motivation to stand up for OpenSource?
Hmm ... I guess that makes it pretty clear where you stand against OpenSource.

A Bitcoin dev who can be easily bought with a 25BTC 'donation' ... and ditch OpenSource as easily as that ...
Doesn't say much for Bitcoin devs ...

Ask again in 30 days...

Not sure if anyone else was expecting that, but I certainly am not surprised at all.
You certainly have no respect from me regarding you blatant lack of support for OpenSource - though I'm certain that doesn't concern you.
But again, I'm not surprised, you were paid off to do it and did it for cheap.

The irony,
Kano won't support code if he doesn't get entitled to "free" hardware. Yet he bashes someone else who did fork over money to support hardware.

Very Ironic, don't you think?

[organofcorti]

<snip>  Ask again in 30 days...

Hey, isn't that one of the answers you get from one of those magic 8 ball thingies?

[kano]

Note: After reading through these threads it is clear this discussion/request has turned in to Political Statement about Open Source and trying to prove something.

Or free hardware requests disguised as political statements

Right, says the guy who's getting > $200 a day from 'his' Avalon while almost no one else gets one ... that he paid ~$1300 for and even got a 25BTC kickback for doing what he's been told by Avalon.

So in your case it's "sucking off Avalon" disguised as "cooperation"

If any of these teenagers like kano had a clue about pursuing GPL violations, they would understand that going straight to curse words and screaming accusations is logically less likely to produce the source code in a meaningful amount of time.  It is also less likely to produce long term cooperation, as it creates a hostile environment at the start of the relationship.

There is lots of good text and FAQs from folks with a track record of pursuing GPL violations at http://gpl-violations.org/ including http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html which suggests
...

Yes well, try to pretend you aren't a complete illiterate idiot and go read the fact that I did simply request the code to start with and was given a clearly bullshit answer about debugging code.
You may like to take it up the ass and say thank you ... I won't.

I have already clearly point out about the gpl-violations website with links - so yeah your not providing anything new to the discussion except more bending over and saying please insert.

I guess you also missed the fact that GitSyncom said the timeline was to have the source available almost a week ago ...

[PuertoLibre]

You may like to take it up the ass and say thank you ... I won't.

I have already clearly point out about the gpl-violations website with links - so yeah your not providing anything new to the discussion except more bending over and saying please insert.

I guess you also missed the fact that GitSyncom said the timeline was to have the source available almost a week ago ...

What is a "Git"?

Click the link: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=git

------------------------

A reminder about extending courtesy:

The one thing I don't understand in all this flameage is why Jeff Garzik isn't championing the request for source from Avalon. Jeff?

After certain people made that task considerably more difficult?  It is difficult to summon the motivation.  Ask again in 30 days...

The one thing I don't understand in all this flameage is why Jeff Garzik isn't championing the request for source from Avalon. Jeff?

After certain people made that task considerably more difficult?

Awwww ... it's more difficult to ask now? ... for the source that was available at least 24 days ago?
I guess that means all this sucking up to Avalon has caused continuous deterioration of your brain over the last 24 days and it's getting more difficult to join all those big words of more than 3 letters together.

Moral of the story (stated clearly by Jeff, violated in all senses of the word by Kano):

Or free hardware requests disguised as political statements

If any of these teenagers like kano had a clue about pursuing GPL violations, they would understand that going straight to curse words and screaming accusations is logically less likely to produce the source code in a meaningful amount of time.  It is also less likely to produce long term cooperation, as it creates a hostile environment at the start of the relationship.

Don't ask for code with one hand, and call the other person a cock sucker, an anal rapist/sodomist, AND a money whore by receiving a discount on their own money used to purchase their own hardware!

[nathanrees19]

Note: After reading through these threads it is clear this discussion/request has turned in to Political Statement about Open Source and trying to prove something.

Or free hardware requests disguised as political statements

j, people are only asking for sources here. Nobody is demanding that a free unit be sent to anyone.

Yes, historically devs have received hardware and provided support in return, but that doesn't mean that requests for source are requests for hardware (especially since multiple people want sources for different reasons). Someone saying "if I get hardware then I'll definitely support it" does not imply "I expect to get hardware [if code is released]".

Why must you make this claim? Are you trying to draw attention away from the fact that you are in the best position to request sources, yet you refuse to do so?

A license like the GPL is meaningless if it isn't actively enforced. You can "play nice" by politely requesting a speedy source release from your position as a customer. Saying "oh, give it 30 days" is not playing nice; that is essentially disregarding the violation.

[kano]

...
The irony,
Kano won't support code if he doesn't get entitled to "free" hardware. Yet he bashes someone else who did fork over money to support hardware.

Very Ironic, don't you think?

The only irony is that you can't read and think that because you can't read it's ok to make stupid comments

I've already stated I'll be the one who will help Xiangfu update (rewrite) the cgminer code to what it should be when he finally gets an Avalon ...
Yeah I know I'm only gonna do that coz Avalon gave me a free Avalon ... oh wait ... what? ... hmm ... now why would I do that ... they didn't give me anything ... damn you mean I didn't help him back at the beginning of Jan when he first asked me about the driver he was writing?
But yes with Xiangfu, I'll have no issue with helping him even though that will in effect be helping Avalon ... now if I could just find a way around that

[nathanrees19]

The irony,
Kano won't support code if he doesn't get entitled to "free" hardware. Yet he bashes someone else who did fork over money to support hardware.

Very Ironic, don't you think?

I've noticed a few leaps of logic in this thread. In particular:

"I'll support it if I get hardware" -> "I won't support it if I don't get hardware" -> "I expect to be expected to support it" -> "I expect to receive hardware"

Every leap is logically fallacious.

[PuertoLibre]

...
The irony,
Kano won't support code if he doesn't get entitled to "free" hardware. Yet he bashes someone else who did fork over money to support hardware.

Very Ironic, don't you think?

The only irony is that you can't read and think that because you can't read it's ok to make stupid comments

I've already stated I'll be the one who will help Xiangfu update (rewrite) the cgminer code to what it should be when he finally gets an Avalon ...
Yeah I know I'm only gonna do that coz Avalon gave me a free Avalon ... oh wait ... what? ... hmm ... now why would I do that ... they didn't give me anything ... damn you mean I didn't help him back at the beginning of Jan when he first asked me about the driver he was writing?
But yes with Xiangfu, I'll have no issue with helping him even though that will in effect be helping Avalon ... now if I could just find a way around that

Oh, it sounds like you have made a commitment. Lets see if you stick to that.

If only we could get you to tone down the sodomy comments. That would be almost respectable.

[PuertoLibre]

The irony,
Kano won't support code if he doesn't get entitled to "free" hardware. Yet he bashes someone else who did fork over money to support hardware.

Very Ironic, don't you think?

I've noticed a few leaps of logic in this thread. In particular:

"I'll support it if I get hardware" -> "I won't support it if I don't get hardware" -> "I expect to be expected to support it" -> "I expect to receive hardware"

Every leap is logically fallacious.

Read back and you'll see there is no "leaps in logic".

Kano just "re-frames" his previous tune when it suits him and "re-spins" prior history when he starts to look bad in context.

As others have noted, he is pretty transparent about it. Now if you [nathan] want to aid him in a con, be my guest. You may find some who haven't read the previous posts but will support the re-spins of previous posts "written in a 'hard to understand' context".

[nathanrees19]

If only we could get you to tone down the sodomy comments. That would be almost respectable.

Why? Modern societies are very accepting of that kind of thing these days.

[nathanrees19]

Read back and you'll see there is no "leaps in logic".

No, if you want to claim that he is demanding free hardware, then you should prove it.

[Vicus]

All Avalon bashers will end up with no source code at all. And what will you do then? I guess - nothing, but whine here. Fuck off and return when they miss their deadline for release.

[nathanrees19]

All Avalon bashers will end up with no source code at all. And what will you do then? I guess - nothing, but whine here. Fuck off and return when they miss their deadline for release.

They missed their deadline for a demo. They missed their deadline for an image release (which should have included source). They missed their deadline for 298 out of 300 units (sorry, shipping less than 1% of orders does not count). They refuse to keep those customers up to date. They claim to be open source but they keep delaying the source with poor excuses. They completely fucked up the batch #2 ordering. Again, they're not keeping batch #2 customers up to date. They don't even know when they will open batch #2 again for orders.

I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be annoyed at Avalon right now, and it's also pretty reasonable to be asking for them to release the source when they claim to be open source and use GPL software.

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.

[organofcorti]

If only we could get you to tone down the sodomy comments. That would be almost respectable.

Why? Modern societies are very accepting of that kind of thing these days.

Because it's off topic. This is the "Kano vs Bitsyncom" thread, not the "Those by Whom I will not be Sodomised" thread.