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Author Topic: Kano vs Bitsyncom  (Read 15341 times)
nathanrees19
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February 14, 2013, 01:16:36 AM
 #181

If only we could get you to tone down the sodomy comments. That would be almost respectable.

Why? Modern societies are very accepting of that kind of thing these days.

Because it's off topic. This is the "Kano vs Bitsyncom" thread, not the "Those by Whom I will not be Sodomised" thread.

A fair point.
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February 14, 2013, 01:45:07 AM
 #182

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.
WTF? I have order in first and second batch, and I'm disappointed too, because of poor communication with Avalon, but I'm reading that thread and realizing, people is more looks like a kids in a mart, whining "I want this toy and I want it now!!". What will you do as parent with that kid?
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February 14, 2013, 03:37:26 AM
 #183

All Avalon bashers will end up with no source code at all. And what will you do then? I guess - nothing, but whine here. Fuck off and return when they miss their deadline for release.
They missed their deadline for 298 out of 300 units (sorry, shipping less than 1% of orders does not count). They refuse to keep those customers up to date. They claim to be open source but they keep delaying the source with poor excuses. They completely fucked up the batch #2 ordering. Again, they're not keeping batch #2 customers up to date. They don't even know when they will open batch #2 again for orders.

I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be annoyed at Avalon right now, and it's also pretty reasonable to be asking for them to release the source when they claim to be open source and use GPL software.

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.

No, the deadline is March 1st and we are in the middle of February. 

They have not refused, they stated that they are not going too  and "no news is good news".

"They" did not purposefully mess up their own pre-order.  Obviously things could of been better and there were bugs in the ecommerce process.   

Again, they are choosing to spend their time resources on building and shipping unit over customer service with a self-admitted "small team"

Yes, there is no date and they have alluded to this in the newsletter.

Anymore mis-representations for us?  Just because you are not happy doesn't mean you can make stuff up.   Be honest.

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February 14, 2013, 07:41:22 AM
 #184

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.
WTF? I have order in first and second batch, and I'm disappointed too, because of poor communication with Avalon, but I'm reading that thread and realizing, people is more looks like a kids in a mart, whining "I want this toy and I want it now!!". What will you do as parent with that kid?

May i remind you that these kids actually payed some substantial monies to get the toy?
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February 14, 2013, 07:45:45 AM
 #185

All Avalon bashers will end up with no source code at all. And what will you do then? I guess - nothing, but whine here. Fuck off and return when they miss their deadline for release.
They missed their deadline for 298 out of 300 units (sorry, shipping less than 1% of orders does not count). They refuse to keep those customers up to date. They claim to be open source but they keep delaying the source with poor excuses. They completely fucked up the batch #2 ordering. Again, they're not keeping batch #2 customers up to date. They don't even know when they will open batch #2 again for orders.

I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be annoyed at Avalon right now, and it's also pretty reasonable to be asking for them to release the source when they claim to be open source and use GPL software.

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.

No, the deadline is March 1st and we are in the middle of February. 

They have not refused, they stated that they are not going too  and "no news is good news".

"They" did not purposefully mess up their own pre-order.  Obviously things could of been better and there were bugs in the ecommerce process.   

Again, they are choosing to spend their time resources on building and shipping unit over customer service with a self-admitted "small team"

Yes, there is no date and they have alluded to this in the newsletter.

Anymore mis-representations for us?  Just because you are not happy doesn't mean you can make stuff up.   Be honest.

Since we're summing claims here, how about the claim that avalon is producing 12 units per day?
Where are they?

And what deadline are you talking about? Their deadline for releasing source? Where in their license agreement did it state they can prospone the release to a convenient date?
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February 14, 2013, 02:35:55 PM
 #186

All Avalon bashers will end up with no source code at all. And what will you do then? I guess - nothing, but whine here. Fuck off and return when they miss their deadline for release.
They missed their deadline for 298 out of 300 units (sorry, shipping less than 1% of orders does not count). They refuse to keep those customers up to date. They claim to be open source but they keep delaying the source with poor excuses. They completely fucked up the batch #2 ordering. Again, they're not keeping batch #2 customers up to date. They don't even know when they will open batch #2 again for orders.

I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be annoyed at Avalon right now, and it's also pretty reasonable to be asking for them to release the source when they claim to be open source and use GPL software.

If you're a troll, I'm actually going to give you 4/10 because you managed to quite accurately imitate an Avalon fanboi.

No, the deadline is March 1st and we are in the middle of February. 

They have not refused, they stated that they are not going too  and "no news is good news".

"They" did not purposefully mess up their own pre-order.  Obviously things could of been better and there were bugs in the ecommerce process.   

Again, they are choosing to spend their time resources on building and shipping unit over customer service with a self-admitted "small team"

Yes, there is no date and they have alluded to this in the newsletter.

Anymore mis-representations for us?  Just because you are not happy doesn't mean you can make stuff up.   Be honest.

Since we're summing claims here, how about the claim that avalon is producing 12 units per day?
Where are they?

And what deadline are you talking about? Their deadline for releasing source? Where in their license agreement did it state they can prospone the release to a convenient date?

I would like to know as well, I am assuming they are in-route and held up for CNY.   Deadline mentioned is for Batch #1 being fully shipped.   

I hope they would release the code on a convenient date compared in an inconvenient date.   Do you need to state that now?   Again this bickering out the source code sounds like people are having hurt egos because they can't force a little company that is juggling many balls to do what they want, when they want.   

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February 14, 2013, 06:39:10 PM
 #187

 
I would like to know as well, I am assuming they are in-route and held up for CNY.   Deadline mentioned is for Batch #1 being fully shipped.   

I hope they would release the code on a convenient date compared in an inconvenient date.   Do you need to state that now?   Again this bickering out the source code sounds like people are having hurt egos because they can't force a little company that is juggling many balls to do what they want, when they want.   

As someone's who has no vested interest either in Avalon or Kano, being that I never ordered an produce - and frankly think Kano's an ass - I have to say the following:

The fact that they haven't released the source in a timely manner and are violating GPL by withholding it (yes, I actually agree with Kano on this one)... should be raising alarm bells like crazy... You're talking about running a few scripts to remove debug related code. doing a test compile and publishing. That should literally take one coder a couple of hours tops... and that's if they have to manually locate everything they'd want to remove. If the code is at all decent they'd have it tagged already so it could be removed much more quickly.

This whole discussion indicates that something isn't right. I have a feeling I know what it is... but choose not to speculate here. Let me just opt out of ever being a customer of Avalon right now.

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February 15, 2013, 12:34:23 AM
 #188

The fact that they haven't released the source in a timely manner and are violating GPL by withholding it (yes, I actually agree with Kano on this one)... should be raising alarm bells like crazy... You're talking about running a few scripts to remove debug related code. doing a test compile and publishing. That should literally take one coder a couple of hours tops... and that's if they have to manually locate everything they'd want to remove. If the code is at all decent they'd have it tagged already so it could be removed much more quickly.

It's even more than that. Whatever source was used to create the binaries, that's the source that needs to be made available. There's no cleanup to do! In fact, doing some sort of cleanup would be in violation of the GPL, as then the sources wouldn't match the binaries they already shipped.

Buy & Hold
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February 15, 2013, 04:05:15 AM
 #189

The fact that they haven't released the source in a timely manner and are violating GPL by withholding it (yes, I actually agree with Kano on this one)... should be raising alarm bells like crazy... You're talking about running a few scripts to remove debug related code. doing a test compile and publishing. That should literally take one coder a couple of hours tops... and that's if they have to manually locate everything they'd want to remove. If the code is at all decent they'd have it tagged already so it could be removed much more quickly.

It's even more than that. Whatever source was used to create the binaries, that's the source that needs to be made available. There's no cleanup to do! In fact, doing some sort of cleanup would be in violation of the GPL, as then the sources wouldn't match the binaries they already shipped.

Well if it were actually debug information the compiler would have stripped it out during the compile anyway - that's standard in most (if not all) modern compilers.

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February 15, 2013, 04:59:57 AM
 #190

...
Kano just "re-frames" his previous tune when it suits him and "re-spins" prior history when he starts to look bad in context.
...
Show one example of each of those 2 lies you posted ... one ... just one ... not two, not three ... just one of each.
Can't find them? Yes now you understand why I think you are a complete lying piece of shit Smiley

Basically all you are saying is that if you were in my situation you would be demanding Avalon to be giving you mining devices.

I haven't done that ... any where ... any time.

In the past (a year ago) I received an Icarus from ngzhang after helping xiangfu to solve the problems he had to get the Icarus code to work.
After I found out he was really sending it to me, I offered to buy (and paid full price) for a 2nd one, since he was giving me one.
Seemed fair that he would still make some money out of me ... and I could 'just' afford to buy the 2nd Icarus.
I've also bought a (full price) Icarus DevKit from him much later ... to get the jTag cable.

The (only) other person (so far) who has supplied me with a mining device is Tom from bASIC.
He sent me an MMQ which I said (before he sent it) that I'd pay for it with the results of the mining from the ASIC device he was going to send me (yeah I can't afford to buy stuff Tongue) I have since pretty much completely rewritten the MMQ code in cgminer, so that it actually works (which the code didn't) and is second to none in performance and error handling. I've even again this week done more critical work on the MMQ driver (all that possible since I actually have one)

For the last 2 months I've been writing the basis of a new USB interface in cgminer (no doubt it will need more work and improvement in the future) so that when ASIC devices do finally appear, I can ensure that I can write a driver as quickly as possible so that when the devices are shipped, they will have cgminer support.
I've ensured that by already rewriting the MMQ and BFL FPGA drivers to use it.

Yes of course I will never begrudge receiving BTC for mining with the devices I am given - why would I?
I don't begrudge it coz I know I will spend a lot of time and effort (as I have over the last year and do almost every day) working on improving and supporting cgminer.

Even when the Avalon device first showed up, I was interested in helping that person with it - but oddly enough he was quite antagonistic about me helping ... which eventually I said I wouldn't any more (though I did).
It was indeed amusing to see the screen generated by my code to prove the performance of the Avalon.

This is what I've done and been doing.
Don't go telling me I have your crappy values and ideals - I don't; and anyone, including the clearly corrupt piece of shit Jeff Garzik, who thinks they want to say my ideals match their crappy, shit ideals can go fuck themselves.

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February 15, 2013, 05:35:14 AM
 #191

...
Kano just "re-frames" his previous tune when it suits him and "re-spins" prior history when he starts to look bad in context.
...
Show one example of each of those 2 lies you posted ... one ... just one ... not two, not three ... just one of each.
Can't find them? Yes now you understand why I think you are a complete lying piece of shit Smiley
No, you "poser". I don't have to lie. You said so quite clearly several times. Other people have quoted you before.

Spin is not the basis of an argument.

Basically all you are saying is that if you were in my situation you would be demanding Avalon to be giving you something.

I haven't done that ... any where ... any time.
You are correct, you didn't "demand" you stated you wouldn't be coding for the Avalon (at the time) if you didn't receive any hardware.

When I confronted you about this and told you to pay for it, you had plenty to say about why you didn't think you should. Case closed.

Then you went on a limb, posturing about how you don't believe you should code "for free".

When I put forth the idea that you could make a repayment you avoided the idea with a retort as to why "you think" you should be "compensated".

Every argument you stood behind was about getting free hardware without any payment.

You then went on another limb that "donated" hardware was cheaper than paying a programmer.

Do you see your angle in the grand scheme of things?
 
------------------------

Your later hostile attitude followed your [apparent] realization that you weren't going to get your way. Followed by BitSyncom asking you to "fuck off" a few times. (Primarily because you kept pestering him about that and the source code.)


In the past (a year ago) I received an Icarus from ngzhang after helping xiangfu to solve the problems he had to get the Icarus code to work.
After I found out he was really sending it to me, I offered to buy (and paid full price) for a 2nd one, since he was giving me one.
Seemed fair that he would still make some money out of me ... and I could 'just' afford to buy the 2nd Icarus.
I've also bought a (full price) Icarus DevKit from him much later ... to get the jTag cable.
That is nice of you.

But every instance where you have been approached with the idea of purchasing hardware in the last month has been rejected for one reason or another.

Including the idea of paying back the hardware by the coins it generated.

So your past actions has little relevance with your present attitude.

The (only) other person (so far) who has supplied me with a mining device is Tom from bASIC.
He sent me an MMQ which I said (before he sent it) that I'd pay for it with the results of the mining from the ASIC device he was going to send me (yeah I can't afford to buy stuff Tongue) I have since pretty much completely rewritten the MMQ code in cgminer, so that it actually works (which the code didn't) and is second to none in performance and error handling. I've even again this week done more critical work on the MMQ driver (all that possible since I actually have one)
The first point to make is that the MMQ is an FPGA device. It is the older generation and therefore we are again talking about the past.

Now, I fully understand you are unable to buy hardware. Okay, I get it and respect your situation.

There are viable alternatives you could hash out with each company to pay for the devices at either a [possible] discount rate or through the [possible] BTC generated by the device once it is in your hands.

These are all ideas that didn't sit well with you. You made it positively clear you don't want that. (You may perhaps change your mind in the future, who knows?)

For the last 2 months I've been writing the basis of a new USB interface in cgminer (no doubt it will need more work and improvement in the future) so that when ASIC devices do finally appear, I can ensure that I can write a driver as quickly as possible so that when the devices are shipped, they will have cgminer support.
I've ensured that by already rewriting the MMQ and BFL FPGA drivers to use it.

Alright.

Yes of course I will never begrudge receiving BTC for mining with the devices I am given - why would I?
I don't begrudge it coz I know I will spend a lot of time and effort (as I have over the last year and do almost every day) working on improving and supporting cgminer.
Now you want "compensation". I have mentioned before that if you want to be compensated then you  should perhaps seek a contract with the vendors.

Not an "implicit" contract, but a very clear and outlined one.

If a company is not willing to play ball, you seem to resort to maligning them. (disguised as other issues.)

Even when the Avalon device first showed up, I was interested in helping that person with it - but oddly enough he was quite antagonistic about me helping ... which eventually I said I wouldn't any more (though I did).
It was indeed amusing to see the screen generated by my code to prove the performance of the Avalon.
I think you are missing the point of open source software.

You give and commit to it freely. If you are looking to use it as a form of implicit hardware exchange, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your goals.

Once Avalon releases the source code you won't have much to begrudge. I doubt that will stop you though.

This is what I've done and been doing.
Don't telling me I have your crappy values and ideals - I don't; and anyone, including the clearly corrupt piece of shit Jeff Garzik, who thinks they want to say my ideals match their crappy, shit ideals can go fuck themselves.

Your wrapper is coming off.

Here is some tape to hold it together:



You are clearly conflicted. You want people to believe one thing about you in your posturing, but in every other page you reinforce exactly what is being pointed out about you.

Don't slam Jeff, he paid for his hardware. Have you?
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February 15, 2013, 05:46:19 AM
 #192

PuertoLibre, wrong tape. Use right one:
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February 15, 2013, 05:48:02 AM
 #193

Bääääm! Cheesy

This is what I've done and been doing.
Don't go telling me I have your crappy values and ideals - I don't; and anyone, including the clearly corrupt piece of shit Jeff Garzik, who thinks they want to say my ideals match their crappy, shit ideals can go fuck themselves.

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February 15, 2013, 05:54:57 AM
 #194

PuertoLibre, wrong tape. Use right one:

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February 15, 2013, 05:58:26 AM
 #195

...
Kano just "re-frames" his previous tune when it suits him and "re-spins" prior history when he starts to look bad in context.
...
Show one example of each of those 2 lies you posted ... one ... just one ... not two, not three ... just one of each.
Can't find them? Yes now you understand why I think you are a complete lying piece of shit Smiley
No, you "poser". I don't have to lie. You said so quite clearly several times. Other people have quoted you before.

Spin is not the basis of an argument.

Basically all you are saying is that if you were in my situation you would be demanding Avalon to be giving you something.

I haven't done that ... any where ... any time.
You are correct, you didn't "demand" you stated you wouldn't be coding for the Avalon (at the time) if you didn't receive any hardware.

When I confronted you about this and told you to pay for it, you had plenty to say about why you didn't think you should. Case closed.

Then you went on a limb, posturing about how you don't believe you should code "for free".

When I put forth the idea that you could make a repayment you avoided the idea with a retort as to why "you think" you should be "compensated".

Every argument you stood behind was about getting free hardware without any payment.

You then went on another limb that "donated" hardware was cheaper than paying a programmer.

Do you see your angle in the grand scheme of things?
...
I don't see any quotes of what I have said ...
Quote these "re-frames" and "re-spins" or fuck off.
Just coz you say shit, doesn't mean anything.

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February 15, 2013, 05:58:36 AM
 #196

A story of a whimsical relationship between one ASIC manufacturer and an unrequited (left wanting) software developer.

<Key scene in the public washroom (Asia style)>:

Kano: You know, I would love to code for Avalon.
Yifu: I bet you would. <Eyeball Kano for 5 seconds.>
Kano: You know, if I find an Avalon unit under my towel in the dressing room I just might keep and maintain code for it.
Yifu: <Scrubs his own back ignoring him.> I think we've got it covered.
Kano: You can scrub my back, I'll scrub yours?
<Kano waits for 10 minutes...nothing happens.>

<Yifu gets up afterwards and walks to the dressing room.>

<Key Kano throwing a hissy fit.>: I can't believe you won't send me an Avalon! How dare you?! ^&*^&*(

Yifu: Sorry, but we already have someone we paid for the software side of things. I simply do not need your "help" at this time.

Kano: Damn you! Do you expect me to work for freee?! I scratch you back, you scratch mine! Don't you understand you New Yorker!?

Yifu: WTF? Man, I don't need your help.

Kano: WTH? Didn't you just see me try to pressure you into leaving an Avalon under the towel?

Yifu: Look, if we need contracted labor we can pay for it. Right now, Xianfu (sorry I forgot his name) already has us covered for development.

Kano: You don't understand, I will keep developing software for you as long as you give me hardware! WTF don't you understand? Where is your source code?

Yifu: Look we will release it soon. Thats all.

Kano: NO you WON'T. I know you WON"T. READ the GPLv3 mutha...^&*^&*! You don't have a choice, give it to me NOW.

Kano: I know what going on here; You paid this xianfu in Avalons didn't you?!

Yifu: Look sir, don't speculate you don't know our contractual arrangements.

Yifu: Further, we will release it soon enough.

Kano: That is why you (Avalon) are such washed up has beens! You don't understand that if you just put the damn Avalon's under my Towel like I asked you to, you would be covered. Maybe...if I feel like it.

Kano: You guys suck!

Yifu: Look, we can give out units to those we think would appreciate it. So ^&*^ off.

-------------------
<Key scene of the top of a building and Kano wielding a rusty sword high in the sky. Ranting and raving>

Kano: I never asked outright for an Avalon. And you know what? I don't want one! I never asked for one. I WOULD HAVE...POSSIBLY, if I felt like it....provided labor for the price of an Avalon.

Kano: No obligations though!

------------------


Moral of the story, if you want to engage in programming AND be COMPENSATED. Sign a contract. Don't posture and pester someone. Then get angry and enrage in revisionist forum history to make yourself look better.

You don't understand what the open source community contributions are about. You want compensation. Whether subtle or blatant. Find donors, collect some bitcoins. Be nice to Yifu and get it paid off.

Or sign a contract where he and you agree on an expected level of service.

Before you say that not how it is, keep in mind the machine you wanted sent to you (for free) and for development purposes is also compensating you every day with Bitcoins on an ongoing basis.

Pay the man, or sign a contract for a specific guarantee, or at least be nice enough to let him bribe you. If it were possible at this stage.



very amusing and apt summary.

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February 15, 2013, 06:04:17 AM
 #197

...
very amusing and apt summary.
Apt based on what?
Feel free to point out where this aptness comes from.
... now 2 morons who cannot quote this so called proof of aptness.

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February 15, 2013, 06:08:52 AM
 #198

...
Followed by BitSyncom asking you to "fuck off" a few times. (Primarily because you kept pestering him about that and the source code.)
...
Interesting ...

GitSyncom has on a few occasions said he will release the source code.
He even gave a date of almost a week ago and didn't.
But I guess that, in your opinion, is to be expected of him?

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SRoulette
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February 15, 2013, 06:50:52 AM
 #199

...
very amusing and apt summary.
Apt based on what?
Feel free to point out where this aptness comes from.
... now 2 morons who cannot quote this so called proof of aptness.

You are a rude unpleasant and entitled person, I felt the summary portrayed you in a humorous light very well while being truthful.

mobodick
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February 15, 2013, 06:57:47 AM
 #200

...
Kano just "re-frames" his previous tune when it suits him and "re-spins" prior history when he starts to look bad in context.
...
Show one example of each of those 2 lies you posted ... one ... just one ... not two, not three ... just one of each.
Can't find them? Yes now you understand why I think you are a complete lying piece of shit Smiley
No, you "poser". I don't have to lie. You said so quite clearly several times. Other people have quoted you before.

Spin is not the basis of an argument.

Basically all you are saying is that if you were in my situation you would be demanding Avalon to be giving you something.

I haven't done that ... any where ... any time.
You are correct, you didn't "demand" you stated you wouldn't be coding for the Avalon (at the time) if you didn't receive any hardware.

When I confronted you about this and told you to pay for it, you had plenty to say about why you didn't think you should. Case closed.

Then you went on a limb, posturing about how you don't believe you should code "for free".

When I put forth the idea that you could make a repayment you avoided the idea with a retort as to why "you think" you should be "compensated".

Every argument you stood behind was about getting free hardware without any payment.

You then went on another limb that "donated" hardware was cheaper than paying a programmer.

Do you see your angle in the grand scheme of things?
...
I don't see any quotes of what I have said ...
Quote these "re-frames" and "re-spins" or fuck off.
Just coz you say shit, doesn't mean anything.

Kano, there is an 'Ignore' button for trolls like PuertoLibre.
I can say it works like a charm.
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