Is Socialism losing against Capitalism?

[JavaLove]

I'm done with this nonsense...

All anyone has done is call me names because they disagree with the facts which I have presented

Not a single person has tried to debate me over anything... simply calling me names, labels, etc

Stupid trolls ruin the discussion for everyone

Oh please. You're an incompetent moron.

Yeah I just called you a fucking name. Why don't you read all my previous posts that I wrote. They all had points in which you could've provided rebuttals yet you didn't. I wonder why.

Maybe it's because you just want to suck ALL the money for yourself because you think that government will work better when it funds money to YOU. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Stop saying you know everything and no one knows anything and read a fucking history book. Everyone who lives with socialized medicine HATES it. Free college tuition is a joke. Socialism doesn't work.

This is the problem with leftists (because you hate it when I say liberal). You're all too fragile to handle a tough debate and need a safe space. All my posts were fine yet you rebutted them with shit saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Grow the fuck up.

Can't wait for Trump to win.

[Moloch]

I'm done with this nonsense...

All anyone has done is call me names because they disagree with the facts which I have presented

Not a single person has tried to debate me over anything... simply calling me names, labels, etc

Stupid trolls ruin the discussion for everyone

Only a great fool hates that which he does not understand... like religion... or picking a favorite sports team... or political team...

It's so easy to hate "the other" when you are ignorant of their position/beliefs

Oh please. You're an incompetent moron.

Yeah I just called you a fucking name. Why don't you read all my previous posts that I wrote. They all had points in which you could've provided rebuttals yet you didn't. I wonder why.

Maybe it's because you just want to suck ALL the money for yourself because you think that government will work better when it funds money to YOU. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Stop saying you know everything and no one knows anything and read a fucking history book. Everyone who lives with socialized medicine HATES it. Free college tuition is a joke. Socialism doesn't work.

This is the problem with leftists (because you hate it when I say liberal). You're all too fragile to handle a tough debate and need a safe space. All my posts were fine yet you rebutted them with shit saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Grow the fuck up.

Can't wait for Trump to win.

Are you done attacking a straw-man?  I didn't say any of that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

If anyone should feel obliged to call people names, it's me... yet I don't... why do you think that is?

How can you possibly claim something like, "Everyone who lives with socialized medicine HATES it"?  Not only is this untrue, it shows you haven't bothered to research the subject... It also shows you are ignorant enough to believe that a large group of people could ever agree on anything...

[JavaLove]

I'm done with this nonsense...

All anyone has done is call me names because they disagree with the facts which I have presented

Not a single person has tried to debate me over anything... simply calling me names, labels, etc

Stupid trolls ruin the discussion for everyone

Only a great fool hates that which he does not understand... like religion... or picking a favorite sports team... or political team...

It's so easy to hate "the other" when you are ignorant of their position/beliefs

Oh please. You're an incompetent moron.

Yeah I just called you a fucking name. Why don't you read all my previous posts that I wrote. They all had points in which you could've provided rebuttals yet you didn't. I wonder why.

Maybe it's because you just want to suck ALL the money for yourself because you think that government will work better when it funds money to YOU. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Stop saying you know everything and no one knows anything and read a fucking history book. Everyone who lives with socialized medicine HATES it. Free college tuition is a joke. Socialism doesn't work.

This is the problem with leftists (because you hate it when I say liberal). You're all too fragile to handle a tough debate and need a safe space. All my posts were fine yet you rebutted them with shit saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Grow the fuck up.

Can't wait for Trump to win.

Are you done attacking a straw-man?  I didn't say any of that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

If anyone should feel obliged to call people names, it's me... yet I don't... why do you think that is?

How can you possibly claim something like, "Everyone who lives with socialized medicine HATES it"?  Not only is this untrue, it shows you haven't bothered to research the subject... It also shows you are ignorant enough to believe that a large group of people could ever agree on anything...

You do call people names. Stop acting as if you're the best person here and that no one else matters.

Why is it that you hate opposition? You can only call people who disagree with you ignorant.

Oh, by the way, I live in a country with socialized medicare. I have to pay high taxes and with our Liberal government, this thing is only going to get bigger. Every time I need to get a doctor, I wait HOURS on end. Stop acting as if you know every thing. In countries with socialized medicine, doctors are underpaid and patients have huge wait times. Many people die because of it.

It's you who's the ignorant one here. But what the fuck am I doing debating with a social justice warrior, black lives matter, Bernie supporter. You're all the same - ignorant towards socialism wanting to vacuum all our taxes out for yourselves. Just wait until a dictator gets into power and throws you on the street like in Cuba. You'll be sucking up to capitalists trying to get out of that country when you realize the socialist dictator, like what happened to the Cubans, will not let them out.

[TECSHARE]

Are you still defending your stance of, "I'm not making ad-hominem attacks", by talking about me and only me... in a 4th consecutive post?

Are you daft?

Did you even bother to look up ad-hominem?

Here's a link for you... please read it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

PS. I don't troll forums all day... sorry... I don't show up whenever you cry wolf... that's not how this works

Just mentioning your name and calling on you directly IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK. You are extremely ignorant. <Also not a personal attack, an observational statement of your lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn.

You can't quote a single personal attack above that post BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED. I don't have to look up ad-hominem, because I already have many times. Unlike you I know what the definition of an ad-hominem attack is. Try actually reading what you linked, slowly, your reading comprehension is clearly not the greatest <also not a personal attack, an observational statement of your lack of your reading abilities.

BTW this is called DEBATING buddy, and they do it in schools all over the world as well as many other places. If anyone is trolling it is you.

No you don't show up whenever I post to you, YOU RUN AWAY for fear of having your ignorance exposed.

[Moloch]

I simply pointed out that you are doing nothing but denegrating me, rather than my claims and presented fact and arguments

And for a fifth post in a row, you prove me correct

[TECSHARE]

I simply pointed out that you are doing nothing but talking about me, rather than my claims and presented fact and arguments

And for a fifth post in a row, you prove me correct

"talking about you" is not the same as a personal attack. Go take a class on logic, you severely need it. BTW my very first post had lots of facts and on topic information, but you just ignored all that didn't you? Could it be perhaps because you are incapable of logical debate and instead would rather feign victim-hood?

[Moloch]

Would you like to debate any specific point I have made?

Or will you continue making yourself look foolish for a 7th consecutive post?

[TECSHARE]

Would you like to debate any specific point I have made?

Or will you continue making yourself look foolish for a 7th consecutive post?

What fucking point? Everything you have said is just rhetoric. How about YOU debate MY POINTS. There are plenty in my original reply to this post. Or you could just pretend to be more of a victim. Boohoo.

Remember this? This is me debating and you running away...

First, look up the differences between communism and socialism

Second, look into the socialist countries that are doing well... Sweden, Norway, Denmark, most of Europe, etc

Third, name a capitalist country besides America

Fourth, America is in the shitter right now, and dragging the whole world down with it... America is most definitely not doing well... I'd go so far as to say America is fucked and another recession/depression is about to smash us in the face again

This is mainly due to the inherent corruption in the capitalist system... it's not a good system at all... it breeds corruption and the most corrupt will always end up with all the money... this is why 50% of the world's money is held by only 63 people

It is no secret the USA is in a depression right now, but capitalism and socialism/communism are just two sides of the same corrupt coin, both sides run by bankers. I might add that a large part of the reason the USA is failing economically right now is its more recent turn towards socialism. Capitalism is designed to build up capital while communism/socialism is designed to strip that wealth and tear down societies. It is just a global system of controlled opposition. Red vs blue, republican vs democrat, capitalism vs communism, only on a global scale. Just look at the soviet flag, it is composed of two ancient symbols, the hammer and the sickle. The hammer represents building society up, and the sickle represents tearing it down. It is right in your face. The Federal Reserve Bank even funded The Soviet Union for many years as Russia went bankrupt some time in the late 1800's. As far as socialism and communism being different, this is a lie because socialism is designed to segway the target society into communism. Read some of the writings of Lenin where he clearly describes it as such.

Capitalism > Democracy > Socialism > Communism > Repeat

Both sides are equally corrupt. The benefits of socialism/communism are short lived and end in the society consumes itself once there are no more people left to rob, just like cancer. Also don't fool yourself, America is not the only country in the shitter right now economically speaking, and you can not truthfully put the entire blame for this on the USA. USA does not have a monopoly on corruption. Additionally there are PLENTY of other capitalist nations, your implication that there aren't is asinine.  Also China is very clearly a capitalist state even if they still harbor some communistic tendencies. The only difference is the capitalism is under control of the state. The state is not your friend no matter where you reside or what ideology you support.

As far as Europe doing well, I beg to differ. It's socialist tendencies are what is driving the massive immigration influx, and frankly Europe can not defend itself from the on coming onslaught coming down upon it, especially since most of Europe bans the private ownership of firearms. This  leaves most of its residents defenseless against the radical militants which make up the majority of the so called "refugees", most of which are fighting age males not even from Syria. The welfare state in Europe is very clearly what is motivating this massive wave of immigration, in addition to militant goals of jihadist conquest.

In conclusion, both "sides" of this ideological conflict are corrupt and just two faces of the same bankster elite. However, given that capitalism is at least focused on the creation of wealth and keeps all the services we all depend on functioning, it seems to me that this is the better choice of two evils at the moment until things can be changed or reformed. Socialism and communism gives zero incentive to people to actually work and provide services resulting in societal decay at a much more rapid pace. Don't be sucked into this US vs THEM controlled opposition Hegelian dialectic. Ultimately both are losing strategies and tools of the elite.

[TECSHARE]

https://youtu.be/RqQn2ADZE1A?t=137

[Lethn]

Are you done attacking a straw-man?  I didn't say any of that...

All you have done through this entire thread is just make bullshit assertions and try to re-write history in order to suit your 'Socialism is the answer' narrative and ignored any evidence that proves you wrong. Of course people are going to lose their temper with you and by dismissing any points people make further you are only making it worse for yourself. This is why the left is largely done in politics, nobody will take you seriously if you just put your hands over your ears and scream as loudly as possible whenever you have to answer any serious questions about your ideology.

Why are you even posting in these forums if you aren't even going to answer peoples' questions properly? What? You think you could just spam propaganda and people would blindly accept it?

[TECSHARE]

Are you done attacking a straw-man?  I didn't say any of that...

All you have done through this entire thread is just make bullshit assertions and try to re-write history in order to suit your 'Socialism is the answer' narrative and ignored any evidence that proves you wrong. Of course people are going to lose their temper with you and by dismissing any points people make further you are only making it worse for yourself. This is why the left is largely done in politics, nobody will take you seriously if you just put your hands over your ears and scream as loudly as possible whenever you have to answer any serious questions about your ideology.

Cue his reply to you with more rhetoric, once again completely running away from even attempting to engage in any actual debate with me in 3...2...1...

[TECSHARE]

Nope, he just decided to run away, a sure sign of his debating abilities.

[Lethn]

Nope, he just decided to run away, a sure sign of his debating abilities.

I don't consider people like you to be much better to be honest, I wasn't very happy when I saw you making a self-moderated thread about Donald Trump, it doesn't do much for your credibility, you win by not letting them derail the conversation with their bullshit assertions, not through censorship.

[Swordsoffreedom]

The reason why I asked this is purely based on Observation. Particularly the following:
1. Soviet Unions collapse.
2. China embracing a capitalist form of economy.
3. Fall of other communist and socialist regimes.
4. Increased foreign relations of Socialist countries with the United States (as the case of Cuba and Vietnam)
5. In my observation, no gains in terms of the struggle of the communists and leftists around the world.

This is an honest question as I do not have sufficient knowledge of the Socialist's plight and experiences.

Thank you for your response.

Well it is an arguement that the US version of capitalism is considered unsustainable in the long run and is due to collapse like the Soviets socialism did.
What I expect is a shift towards a middle value or a form of economics to emerge that is socialist but also capitalist.
We can see some transitions to that from the most capitalist countries so it is interesting to watch.

[TECSHARE]

Nope, he just decided to run away, a sure sign of his debating abilities.

I don't consider people like you to be much better to be honest, I wasn't very happy when I saw you making a self-moderated thread about Donald Trump, it doesn't do much for your credibility, you win by not letting them derail the conversation with their bullshit assertions, not through censorship.

Excuse me captain better than you. Unlike that toolbag I actually have the capability to have a debate, no one is removing shit here buddy, he still runs away.

Additionally if he could read and follow simple directions HIS POSTS WOULD STILL BE THERE. Funny they all want their safe spaces, but when some one they don't agree with sets up a forum with simple rules they cry and cry about how unfair it is. Let me call the WAAmbulance. Could you possibly be any more hypocritical?

It is impossible to have a factually based discussion when there is nothing but constant derailment of bullshit rhetoric and petty arguing which YOU regularly engage in, aiding the avoidance of fact based debate. Also what makes you think I give a fuck about your judgements of me? You can't do much better than that retard. You just wear your libertarianism/anarchism like a convenient fascia to be disguarded when it serves you.  It is just more trendy to pretend to be something else than what you are. At your core you are nothing more than a closet cry baby leftist like most people who claim to support anarchism.

[Lethn]

Additionally if he could read and follow simple directions HIS POSTS WOULD STILL BE THERE.

That's not how free and open debate works you halfwit, by the way, accusing me of all people of being a leftist is just fucking sad.

[TECSHARE]

Additionally if he could read and follow simple directions HIS POSTS WOULD STILL BE THERE.

That's not how free and open debate works you halfwit, by the way, accusing me of all people of being a leftist is just fucking sad.

Your right, it is such a crime to have a single thread with rules of conduct, clearly I am Stalin.  Go cry some more. If you don't like being called a leftist maybe stop supporting leftist ideologies. None of what you call "debate" is debate, it is just mindless rambling and bickering jammed packed full of fallacies derailing ACTUAL DEBATE. When someone whom I don't agree with learns how logic works, they will be perfectly welcome in that thread, until then they can fuck off.

[Lethn]

Yeah yeah, keep raging.

When someone whom I don't agree with learns how logic works

With comments like these you're just pretty much proving my point.

[TECSHARE]

Yeah yeah, keep raging.

When someone whom I don't agree with learns how logic works

With comments like these you're just pretty much proving my point.

I know you are clearly ignorant of this, but logic is a SCIENCE. It is the very basis of language. Without it you are just posting a collection of letters representing various grunts. I am sorry you and others are so poorly educated you can not grasp this basic requirement for actual legitimate debate.

[TECSHARE]

First, look up the differences between communism and socialism

Second, look into the socialist countries that are doing well... Sweden, Norway, Denmark, most of Europe, etc

Third, name a capitalist country besides America

Fourth, America is in the shitter right now, and dragging the whole world down with it... America is most definitely not doing well... I'd go so far as to say America is fucked and another recession/depression is about to smash us in the face again

This is mainly due to the inherent corruption in the capitalist system... it's not a good system at all... it breeds corruption and the most corrupt will always end up with all the money... this is why 50% of the world's money is held by only 63 people

It is no secret the USA is in a depression right now, but capitalism and socialism/communism are just two sides of the same corrupt coin, both sides run by bankers. I might add that a large part of the reason the USA is failing economically right now is its more recent turn towards socialism. Capitalism is designed to build up capital while communism/socialism is designed to strip that wealth and tear down societies. It is just a global system of controlled opposition. Red vs blue, republican vs democrat, capitalism vs communism, only on a global scale. Just look at the soviet flag, it is composed of two ancient symbols, the hammer and the sickle. The hammer represents building society up, and the sickle represents tearing it down. It is right in your face. The Federal Reserve Bank even funded The Soviet Union for many years as Russia went bankrupt some time in the late 1800's. As far as socialism and communism being different, this is a lie because socialism is designed to segway the target society into communism. Read some of the writings of Lenin where he clearly describes it as such.

Capitalism > Democracy > Socialism > Communism > Repeat

Both sides are equally corrupt. The benefits of socialism/communism are short lived and end in the society consumes itself once there are no more people left to rob, just like cancer. Also don't fool yourself, America is not the only country in the shitter right now economically speaking, and you can not truthfully put the entire blame for this on the USA. USA does not have a monopoly on corruption. Additionally there are PLENTY of other capitalist nations, your implication that there aren't is asinine.  Also China is very clearly a capitalist state even if they still harbor some communistic tendencies. The only difference is the capitalism is under control of the state. The state is not your friend no matter where you reside or what ideology you support.

As far as Europe doing well, I beg to differ. It's socialist tendencies are what is driving the massive immigration influx, and frankly Europe can not defend itself from the on coming onslaught coming down upon it, especially since most of Europe bans the private ownership of firearms. This  leaves most of its residents defenseless against the radical militants which make up the majority of the so called "refugees", most of which are fighting age males not even from Syria. The welfare state in Europe is very clearly what is motivating this massive wave of immigration, in addition to militant goals of jihadist conquest.

In conclusion, both "sides" of this ideological conflict are corrupt and just two faces of the same bankster elite. However, given that capitalism is at least focused on the creation of wealth and keeps all the services we all depend on functioning, it seems to me that this is the better choice of two evils at the moment until things can be changed or reformed. Socialism and communism gives zero incentive to people to actually work and provide services resulting in societal decay at a much more rapid pace. Don't be sucked into this US vs THEM controlled opposition Hegelian dialectic. Ultimately both are losing strategies and tools of the elite.

You still haven't even attempted to debate any of this.

https://youtu.be/RqQn2ADZE1A?t=137