Are Bitcoiners dumber / greedier than ordinary people?

[Lauda]

ahh got it. anyway, it seems, that so called "administration" prefer amount of users / posts over quality > this automatically means, that users generating quality posts leaving over time and only whores remains.

Well, I can't say for sure but I know that several suggestions (in regards to solving/mitigating the problem) have been declined.

I guess, that we are one same boat on this..

Correct, I dislike the current situation as well. If you have any suggestions in mind in order to solve it without banning signature campaigns altogether, please do make a thread about it (@everyone).

I don't like the word greedier, I prefer the word "wiser".

That is definitely the wrong word.

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[Kprawn]

To think, all of this started because a newbie user with 16 posts started a thread to insult Bitcoiners on this forum. When I asked what the point was and why this thread was

started the user started with personal insults. When I did not give attention to his insults, he/she turned to PM's. I am not going to entertain this and will continue posting

constructive content in other threads. This is a poor start for a newbie on a forum like this or just a sock puppet account from another older user. Whatever this is.. it is still a

waste of time. { Check his post history... ETH shill and bashing Bitcoiners }

[ZyclonRacerX]

Dude are you simply trolling or are there any point you trying to make with this thread. Bitcoin people are no more greedier than the average Joe and they are on average more

intelligent than the ordinary Joe. For someone to grasp the concept and to talk about Bitcoin on a public forum are already a step up from the average fiat public. You have to

explain in more detail, why you saying.. what you said in your post... to quantify that statement.  

Case in point. Look at what you typed up there. An average 5-year-old has better grasp of grammar, sentence structure & formatting skillz.

An average grammar nazi could have found the "ignore" button by now and moved on. You can't possibly expect everyone in the forum to post to your liking. For those special occasions where forum rules are being broken there is also the "Report to moderator". Attacking other forum members doesn't really help your point but shows you being as much a part of the problem as anyone else.

So if you're done trolling what's your point again?

My point is simple: 95% of the posts on this forum are now insipid, illiterate spam.
If I was new to Bitcoin, and came to this forum to learn, I'd assume that bitcoin enthusiasts are fucking greedy morons.
Would further assume that bitcoin enthusiasts are too lazy to read and/or have the attention span of a fruit fly, because the same inane drivel gets repeated, again and again, within the same thread by what appears to be different users.
I would also be lead to believe that most bitcoin enthusiasts are gamblers, because most posts are appended with "bitcoin casino" ads.

Then I would leave & tell my friends to stay the fuck away from Bitcoin.

BTW, not a Grammar Nazi, my own grammar is shit. Have no problem with broken English, it's not my native language.
What I do have trouble with is dumb, vapid trash that's posted in broken English. If I wanted to discredit Bitcoin, that's what I'd do: start asinine posts like

...and make sure that everything looks like it's typed up by a 5-year-old.
Clearer?

Well, I´m sure that the Einsteins around here have their learned discussions on their special threads. Me, I like it better among the unwashed and dumb masses, especially being one of them myself.

The Einsteins on this forum have been driven away; this forum is unsuitable for lerned, or any, discussions. Only suitable for spamming.
4chan haz tonier discourse. Better grammar, too.

[ZyclonRacerX]

Hah. Half of those threads are made by my friend's alts xD it's funny how that guy who's spamming happens to be at the top of the class, but he pre-writes his posts on a notepad document then posts them all when he has time.

Plausible. Thank your "friend" for making this place what it is.

[hilariousandco]

Hah. Half of those threads are made by my friend's alts xD it's funny how that guy who's spamming happens to be at the top of the class, but he pre-writes his posts on a notepad document then posts them all when he has time.

You think this is funny? How about you report them so something can be done about it? This type of behavior is what is going to spoil it for everyone else and get campaigns banned entirely. I've long said that signature campaigns could actually help improve the post quality here but only if signature campaign managers don't allow shitposters onto their campaigns in the first place and kick any that start off but I'm getting to the point where I'd rather just signatures/campaigns be banned themselves because it would put a stop to all this bullshit in an instant.

People that are obsessed with discussing the discussion itself probably don´t have that much to discuss. Or so regular common sense would deduce.

you will get paid for this post, right?

Not any more. Banned him for copying and pasting content. He'll probably have alts though or just create a new account or buy one out of his signature earnings and join another campaign so ultimately futile in the end.

is Staff aware about this?

 and it is now more than less earning platform for signature whores from third world, where they already have net access...

The staff can't really do anything about it (aside from "hunting" down signature campaign spammers, but this 'fight' has been going on for too long). The administration makes the decisions. I've even attempted to get signature campaign managers punished, but my attempt was obviously not successful. I'm pretty certain that most of the staff members are aware of the problem, the only difference is the stance that these members have towards the problem (some voice their opinion strongly, while others don't).

If campaigns aren't just banned outright then punishing campaign managers is something that needs to be done and I've suggested this to theymos a couple of times but no response. I know it would work to a good extent because businesses don't want to have their accounts here suspended because their presence is vital to them. I pestered secondstrade for months to do something about their campaign and they did nothing until I left him negative feedback for it then he actually started to deny people for poor posts rather than accept every single person and there has been a noticeable difference but I still don't think he's doing enough. That's where bans should come in. There needs to be repercussions because once campaigns realise they're going to get their accounts banned they will either step up their game, hire someone to do their job for them or just close the campaign.

discussions and post quality significantly lost value over years (you can also see a difference, right?)

In some cases 'significantly lost value' is an understatement.

Sadly true. If we don't try do something about it now it wont be long before the only people posting here are Indonesians and Filipinos with their entire friends and family posting away on ten accounts each all just stating 'we all hope to make profit because bitcoin is good because you can make profit which is nice' over and over again reworded ever so slightly.

The staff can't really do anything about it

I would say, staff can end this madness in ~15 seconds. just disable signatures (not maybe for whole board for start, but just for some core sections).

ok, maybe you will loose some users, but quality of posts (so whole board) will be improved for sure.

Well this is certainly the dilemma isn't it. It's a catch 22 because the quality would obviously instantly improve if we did that and I'm getting to the point where I think it's going to be the only solution to put an end to it, but in doing that it's obvious we'd lose a massive amount of traffic and new users signing up which is kinda priceless to the forum. If campaigns were banned I wouldn't be surprised if the forum became pretty dead and half the people just left (though obviously this would be preferential to those that just want decent discussion). Personally, I think it's about finding a balance but there really needs to be some fear of punishments and people losing their accounts if they take the piss and abuse the system otherwise nothing is going to change.

[suchmoon]

Well this is certainly the dilemma isn't it. It's a catch 22 because the quality would obviously instantly improve if we did that and I'm getting to the point where I think it's going to be the only solution to put an end to it, but in doing that it's obvious we'd lose a massive amount of traffic and new users signing up which is kinda priceless to the forum. If campaigns were banned I wouldn't be surprised if the forum became pretty dead and half the people just left (though obviously this would be preferential to those that just want decent discussion). Personally, I think it's about finding a balance but there really needs to be some fear of punishments and people losing their accounts if they take the piss and abuse the system otherwise nothing is going to change.

This makes it sound that you think "half the people" post only because of sig campaigns. Do you really think so?

And if yes - why would it be a bad thing if they stopped posting?

[hilariousandco]

Well obviously I can't put an exact figure on the percentage of people that would leave and can only guesstimate but just look at how many people have signatures on the forum and especially in all those shit threads. Do you think they would be there if they weren't getting paid to post? Ban campaigns and you remove their incentive for posting and the people who are only posting to get paid would leave as they likely have no reason to waste time here so in that respect it would be a good thing. Bad for traffic to the site but certainly good for content. With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring. It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

[suchmoon]

Well obviously I can't put an exact figure on the percentage of people that would leave and can only guesstimate but just look at how many people have signatures on the forum and especially in all those shit threads. Do you think they would be there if they weren't getting paid to post? Ban campaigns and you remove their incentive for posting and the people who are only posting to get paid would leave as they likely have no reason to waste time here so in that respect it would be a good thing. Bad for traffic to the site but certainly good for content. With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring. It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

If someone leaves the forum because they're not getting paid... I can't make myself feel any regret about that. Death by drowning in cow manure isn't any more appealing than death by lack of traffic, IF that's really an issue - not convinced about that. Traffic created by shitposters doesn't sound like something worth having.

Perhaps there is a compromise, e.g. kill the fancy signatures for anybody below legendary, or some more sophisticated criteria to weed out shitposters.

[hilariousandco]

Well obviously I can't put an exact figure on the percentage of people that would leave and can only guesstimate but just look at how many people have signatures on the forum and especially in all those shit threads. Do you think they would be there if they weren't getting paid to post? Ban campaigns and you remove their incentive for posting and the people who are only posting to get paid would leave as they likely have no reason to waste time here so in that respect it would be a good thing. Bad for traffic to the site but certainly good for content. With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring. It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

If someone leaves the forum because they're not getting paid... I can't make myself feel any regret about that. Death by drowning in cow manure isn't any more appealing than death by lack of traffic, IF that's really an issue - not convinced about that. Traffic created by shitposters doesn't sound like something worth having.

Well you could certainly make that argument but if you think about the forum as a business a customer (user) is still a customer and traffic is still traffic. Hits/traffic are vital to websites and the revenue they receive and I would guess that signature campaigns account for half of the new sign ups here so it's a big factor in the continued growth of the forum. I guess you could compare it to someone owning a business such as a bar or a nightclub and you're getting a lot of rowdy undesirables in. They might be annoying and piss all over the toilets and spill beer everywhere but they're still spending (or bringing in) money there at the end of the day. There is also the point about signature campaigns contributing to the bitcoin economy and helping new users get introduced to it and getting their hands on their first coins. Many people are apprehensive or don't have the money to gamble on what is a risky venture and at least people can get to try out bitcoin this way and all for free. It's just a shame these idiots don't appreciate the gift they've been given because they'll sure as hell miss their cash cow once it's gone and regret their behaviour.

Perhaps there is a compromise, e.g. kill the fancy signatures for anybody below legendary, or some more sophisticated criteria to weed out shitposters.

I have thought about and have suggested that we consider removing signatures from some of the lower ranks before. If we encourage/force campaign managers to only accept quality posters shitposters would have no where to go unless they significantly improved the quality of their posts. Things can be done but there definitely needs to be some repercussions for people running lazy campaigns.

[ZyclonRacerX]

It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

Those are not "quality posters."
If your girlfriend leaves as soon as you stop paying her for sex, she's not your GF, she's a whore.
If a friend stops talking to you when you stop paying him, he's not really your friend.
If your "quality posters" stop posting once the money dries up, that's the best possible outcome ever.

Unless you're interested in talking with people who are being paid to talk to you, people who tell you shit they know you want to hear, who type up grammatically correct questions in Notepad that they know you'll enjoy answering, etc.

Hits/traffic are vital to websites and the revenue they receive

This is not a for-profit site.
The traffic generated by paying people to spam is the kind of traffic commercial websites pay to avoid. That traffic amounts to human DDOS attack.

[tmfp]

The problem

I've suggested this to theymos a couple of times but no response.

[suchmoon]

I have thought about and have suggested that we consider removing signatures from some of the lower ranks before. If we encourage/force campaign managers to only accept quality posters shitposters would have no where to go unless they significantly improved the quality of their posts. Things can be done but there definitely needs to be some repercussions for people running lazy campaigns.

The problem is that any non-technical enforcement (e.g. trying to strengthen campaign management vs. removing/reducing signatures) will require more staff effort, create more abuse/loopholes, etc possibly to the point of defeating the traffic benefits.

I'm all for making campaign managers responsible for the crap but how would you enforce it? Allow only approved sig campaigns similar to how banners are auctioned off, and require them to hire proper managers? What if users start wearing rogue "unapproved" sig ads perhaps contracted outside of the forum? Who would even decide what constitutes an ad? E.g. is my sig an ad?

The whole idea if sig ads is just a bizarre concept that's impossible to balance properly. Especially when you consider the massive range of incomes across the world. 0.1 BTC can be either a modest dinner or a monthly income.

[Lauda]

The problem

I've suggested this to theymos a couple of times but no response.

Kind of, yes. The 'solution' doesn't have to be some solution that effectively cuts down the spam to near zero. It just has to have a somewhat effect; it doesn't matter whether it will make it harder to run signature campaigns (forcing managers to actually do their 'jobs') or harder to spam

Sadly true. If we don't try do something about it now it wont be long before the only people posting here are Indonesians and Filipinos with their entire friends and family posting away on ten accounts each all just stating 'we all hope to make profit because bitcoin is good because you can make profit which is nice' over and over again reworded ever so slightly.

Exactly. This is what is causing my concern. There are already too many completely useless posts for the sake of profit.

[minifrij]

I still believe the only way to fully remove the problem of signature campaign abuses is for the moderation team to be stricter (not to say they aren't doing enough currently). While it definitely hurts them slightly, doing things such as leaving negative feedback to the campaign's account won't change anything (e.g secondstrade). I also think that signature campaigns run by bots should be disallowed flat out. It is impossible for a bot to judge a post's quality without relying on some arbitrary figures such as character count. This is essentially an invitation for abuse.

I still don't understand theymos' views on this. Does he not know (which seems unlikely by how much mods have apparently notified him of it)? Does he not care? Is there some sort of magical solution being implemented "soon"?

but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring.

Forums don't need a lot of members to stay alive; the forum wouldn't die should signature campaigns be banned. I am/have been a member of several online forums with somewhat small communities, and all of these places seemed a lot nicer with such a small but dedicated community behind them. I don't see the loss in traffic as a bad thing whatsoever, and I doubt it will be significant enough to affect the forum financially. IMO it would be akin to filtering water from piss.

Those are not "quality posters."
If your girlfriend leaves as soon as you stop paying her for sex, she's not your GF, she's a whore.
If a friend stops talking to you when you stop paying him, he's not really your friend.
If your "quality posters" stop posting once the money dries up, that's the best possible outcome ever.

Hilarious never said anything about said quality posters no longer posting. He said it would be a shame for quality posters to not "get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway". While I agree with your comparison, it doesn't make sense in response to what was said.
Perhaps you should check up on your own English comprehension before insulting others for theirs.

[ZyclonRacerX]

Those are not "quality posters."
If your girlfriend leaves as soon as you stop paying her for sex, she's not your GF, she's a whore.
If a friend stops talking to you when you stop paying him, he's not really your friend.
If your "quality posters" stop posting once the money dries up, that's the best possible outcome ever.

Hilarious never said anything about said quality posters no longer posting. He said it would be a shame for quality posters to not "get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway". While I agree with your comparison, it doesn't make sense in response to what was said.
Perhaps you should check up on your own English comprehension before insulting others for theirs.

My English comprehension is fine. Yours, OTOH, appears lacking. Text from whence your quote was culled:

With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring. It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

Added some text effects to help you focus

[eaLiTy]

people are as dump as the OP creator , why would you think that bitcoiners and ordinary people are different people. i have seen many people like you in this forum   

[ZyclonRacerX]

people are as dump as the OP creator [...]

*dumb.
DUMB, you illiterate cumwad

[Lauda]

With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring.It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

If you find this very important and want to consider it, then the 'solution' needs to be something that does not completely remove signature campaigns. Making it significantly harder to spam (by some means) would be much better than doing nothing.

people are as dump as the OP creator , why would you think that bitcoiners and ordinary people are different people. i have seen many people like you in this forum  

*dumb.
DUMB, you illiterate cumwad

Let's not start insulting each other directly as this will not help anyone.

[eaLiTy]

With that being said, there's also probably a lot of 'great' posters that would probably eventually leave too or the amount of time they spend here would decrease significantly over time. I'm all for trying to improve the post quality and discussions but at the same time a dead forum would also be pretty boring.It's just gonna be be a shame to all the quality posters though who just appreciate being able to get a little bitcoin for something they would do anyway and unfortunately it's gonna be the shitters that spoil it for everyone else.

If you find this very important and want to consider it, then the 'solution' needs to be something that does not completely remove signature campaigns. Making it significantly harder to spam (by some means) would be much better than doing nothing.

people are as dump as the OP creator , why would you think that bitcoiners and ordinary people are different people. i have seen many people like you in this forum  

*dumb.
DUMB, you illiterate cumwad

Let's not start insulting each other directly as this will not help anyone.

what i meant here is that ,people start dumping new threads in order to spam ,since he was mentioning ordinary people as greedy and dumb.i was adding what ordinary people can do as the OP creator.

and for @ZyclonRacerX ,i didnt know that you created oxford university you dumber.

@Lauda,hope you are a Niki Lauda fan so am i

[Kakmakr]

people are as dump as the OP creator [...]

*dumb.
DUMB, you illiterate cumwad

You consider all signature campaign participants as shit posters, but allow drivel like this to be posted? How is this in any way or form constructive? Is this a crusade to crucify signature posters and an attempt to divide people on this forum?

I joined this signature campaign, because I support Bitcoin anonymity and this service is one method to accomplish those goals. The payment I receive to accomplish this, is a added bonus.

Signature posters add a lot of value in the form of traffic and content creation for this forum. The campaign managers are responsible to manage this in a responsible manner and signature participants should adhere to the rules. If a participant in these campaigns become a nuisance or a annoyance, and they are deemed to be a Sig spammer, some actions must be taken to deal with this.

This should also be applicable to all other members, not participating in these signature campaigns. Not wearing a paid signature, should not give you a free pass to post drivel and to insult other members.

Before you flame me for this post, consider this : Anything I post in the Meta section, do not qualify for payment as stipulated by the signature campaign rules.