Betcoin.TM -> Owe me over 10.5BTC

[debuni]

Edit of 04 Jun @ 1GMT:

Well...

30 days passed since Betcoin.TM was online:

Last Active:    May 02, 2016, 05:42:54 AM

In meantime they scammed few more people:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1496542.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283187.msg15063773#msg15063773
And so on on post in their topic.

I will not waste more of my time watching this topic. So I'm locking it. If somebody wants to add anything - PM me and I will unlock it of course.
Meanwhile I believe they deserve a lot more red trust from DT.



Edit of 21 Apr @10:35GMT:

Bitcoin.TM stated they are not for "few BTC", but current issues with them (at least I know only for those):

Owe @Me 8.35BTC
-> This topic

Owe @cwil 11BTC for >18 days
-> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1437638.msg14600949#msg14600949

Owe camelson ?? cashback for over a month
-> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283187.msg14550413#msg14550413

Owe OrangeSeller ?? cashback for over a month
-> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1358728.msg14491697#msg14491697




Short:

Update on 20 Apr @22 GMT: They owe me 10.5+BTC. 11.25BTC - 2.9BTC initial deposit back = 8.35BTC

I have pending withdraws for a 10.5 for 9+ days now.  My account have 11.25+BTC

Screenshot of the account

Before opening this scam accusation, I was contacting live chat on a daily basis. What happens? Every day the answer was similar to "i'm contacting them right now" /admins/, they will contact you in 24 hours. Of course nobody ever contacted me. Even Betcoin.TM user was online twice since then (on 6th and yesterday).



Long:

02 Apr: As I wanted to have some weekend fun, I contacted BetCoin.TM chat representative for their 5% bonus with 3-5x rollover. Everyone is getting a popup about it when visiting site to start chat and request it.

They offered me a bonus of 201% on a livechat session /actually to choose between 101%, 201%, 301% and 5% with just 5x rollover, I choose 201%/.
Also gave me a list of approved games for clearing the bonus:

This promotion is ONLY AVAILABLE FOR SOME GAMES! Make sure you use your
bonus only on these games:
a. Circle
b. Reels
c. Hilo
d. Dice
...

02 Apr: I made a deposit ot 2.9BTC and got 3BTC bonus. I asked them why it's capped to 3BTC and they don't told me before my deposit. But as I just want a weekend fun and not to rip them with bonuses, I accept it as 3BTC and didn't insist to be ~6BTC bonus.
Later on that day they apologized and gave me 0.1 Jadecoin as compensation without I asking for it.

02-06 Apr: Having fun, running good, chancing multiplies from 1.2x - 5x and bet size drastically - final result: unlocking the bonus with a total of ~0.22BTC in my account.

I made all of my bets on a. Circle and d. Dice. All with small bets, I don't have a single bet over 0.25BTC (0.01% of all bets), and >90% of bets are under 0.05BTC. So it's not like using the bonus to hit big with first few bets and then just make the turnover.

Unlocking the bonus 1

Unlocking the bonus 2


06 Apr: Made a withdraw and start waiting 24 hours review.

07 Apr: Start asking what happens? Usually the answer was similar to "Please be more patient dear because I regularly do a followup with admin"
08 Apr: Asking what happens? "i'm contacting our admin now regarding about your withdrawals"
09 Apr: Same, admin/supervisor will contact you
10 Apr: Same, told them if they didn't procced it in 48 hours I will open scam accusation
11 Apr: Same, admin/supervisor will contact you
12 Apr: Same, admin/supervisor will contact you
13 Apr: Same, admin/supervisor will contact you within 24 hours.


After I insist for admin mail or whatever for XX time, they wrote me:

Zoey (11:15:21): Your request is being processed now, there is just a long queue on the system for withdrawals but it will eventually go through . please give it a few more time to process, thanks and sorry for the inconvenience.
Na (11:17:31): I'm getting this exact answer for 4-5 day straight. This is unacceptable. Does your admins have an email, skype or other way to communicate with them or I should start filling my scam accusation in bitcointalk and Chinese forums?
Zoey (11:18:41): i'm contacting them right now.
Na (11:19:24): This is not working out for me. I got "i'm contacting them right now." for 4-5 days and it's not working. Without an answer, without a withdraw.
Na (11:19:36): As I said:
Na (11:19:42): Does your admins have an email, skype or other way to communicate with them or I should start filling my scam accusation in bitcointalk and Chinese forums?
Na (11:20:04): Because I said what I will do before more than 48 hours and after waited for few days.
Na (11:33:41): ?
Na (11:44:28): Now and you are not answering...
Zoey (11:45:16): im working on it my dear.
Zoey (11:47:26): i'm sorry for the inconvenience, at the moment i'm also assisting other client aside you. please bear with me.
Na (11:47:33): ok
Zoey (11:49:45): our team noticed some preliminary betting abnormalities in the first passthrough and now your account is being escalated to our specialist.


So what the fuck "preliminary betting abnormalities" mean on provably fair games from their site?! For me this is just an excuse to delay/refuse payment. Betcoin.TM site is even chancing client seed every bet automatically...

My guess is they are referring to my chancing bet size and multiplier and some point and hitting 5x from first one or two bets sometimes. But it's just pure luck. Many I didn't hit it.

And for matter of integrity and curiosity, yesterday I deposited on new account on PrimeDice and tried the same: result is in screenshots below: I made 20% for 300 bets, hitting on multiple occasion 5x multiplier on first one or two bets but on even more didn't hit it in 6-10 bets. Just luck. Or I "cracked" Primedice too!?

Primedice:

Hitting on 1st bet 5x with bigger bet size

Well... it cannot happens every time

And continues to be hard to hit

But.. sometimes it's just like a miracle. Nope, pure luck.

Primedice account overview


I have a list of all of my bets (literally thousand of bets, with amount, time-stamp, result, betid), chat transcripts, screenshots and even video how I'm unlocking the bonus. I just don't know is it appropriate to publish them now. But I could be uploaded upon request or if Betcoin.TM tells that written above is not accurate. And as I stated above, All with small bets, I don't have a single bet over 0.25BTC (0.01% of all bets), and >90% of bets are under 0.05BTC. So it's not like using the bonus to hit big with first few bets and then just make the turnover.

14 Apr: Of course nobody contacted me ever
15 Apr: Same, still nobody contacted me ever, so we've finished here - finally open this scam accusation.


In period 06-12 Apr I continued playing in their site, because I like their site and their dice fancy rolling, even I made almost 2BTC after I unlocked the bonus. As my point was to gamble and have fun.

In general I'm highly disappointed. Instead of using me as advertisement for a big winner, they are wasting my time day after day, holding my coins and forcing me to open this scam accusation.

But Donator or not, Betcoin.TM deserves to be red trusted till this get resolved!

Also I would appreciate if somebody with Mandarin could translate it or just write 1-2 sentences to post it in Chinese forums where they are advertising themselves. People should be aware.

Thank you.







Update on 20 Apr @22 GMT

I have spoken to betcoin.tm for a significant amount of time & he has always been supportive & helpful.However, the multi account thing has been raised a lot of times in the past as well and it is not allowed for more than one person in the same house to play with the same IP's as there is no one to come & check them.The same applies for referral bonuses etc...It's common sense.

If you do as you like then the casino has the right to do as they like.This is if OP truly has several accounts.

Violating T&C and gaining an unfair advantage are not the same thing.  Please post the terms of the bonus you claim was abused.

I think we're not communicating this properly:

When you create multiple accounts we do not allow ANY player to take advantage of bonuses.

When I say 'take advantage of bonus offers' I mean use and benefit from them - not the definition you are thinking of.

Does this make sense?

Yes,It does.

Finally somebody to stand up for Betcon.TM.

I also liked them a lot with their fancy dice rolling... till thay scammed me with 11.25BTC -2.9 returned...

BUT. I'm not multi accouter and they don't have/cannot submit ANY prof of this. Just because I used only maruni as account with them.

And what about cwil, who never used a bonus, just won 11BTC on slots and still waiting for payment over 16 days?? Is he another hacker of their provably fair games??

--> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1437638.msg14600949#msg14600949

Also few other players complained that they are waiting for cashback promo over a month now.






I will update and OP:

You've said there will be a ONE day / 24 hours / review if I've get lucky to clear the bonus. Then you publicly said you are doing TWO WEEKS review. This mean every player could stuck for weeks with you. So guys, use your head wisely.

--> Pastebin of chat for 24 hours review and that I'm eligible for bonus

"Angel (22:53:23): I see here that you are still eligible to have our 201% and 101% match deposit bonuses"

-snip - about returning of my initial deposit:

It's been processed.

Will post tx id if you authorize it.

Yes, it was finally proceeded. I don't need to authorize it. Transaction is made to my public address from my profile...
Got at least 2.9BTC back. OP updated.

- snip -

- snip -
No, we did not give you the winnings from the bonus money that we confiscated as you did not place those bets using your own funds.

And what about the 2BTC I won, betting with my OWN funds - e.g. after clearing the bonus?? If I had lose, everything would be fine for you, right?

- snip -
3. The amount of this cashout is by no means small, but neither is it in the upper end of what we process. Size has nothing to do with this conversation. Debuni/Maruni violated the terms of service and appropriate action was taken.

You freerolled this player.

Please post the terms of the bonus you claim he abused.

If it's a bonus that could be abused, you would be justified in freerolling him.

I don't understand how creating multiple accounts, and thereby directly violating of our Terms of Service, is not enough to answer your question.

Creating multiple accounts voids players from benefiting from ANY bonus.

Please, as I was the initiator of this public scam accusation:

Please, explain in public how I violated the terms of service and as you are accusing me of multi accounting.
Do you have ANY proofs? No because this is just and excuse for not paying me. And you could do it with any player... So in my eyes you are still scammers.


--> Pastebin and of all my bets. As you can see they are all made by their rules in previous pastebin about bonus, and they cannot submit any proof about their multi account accusation, because I've never used another account beside maruni with them.
Bets until jadecoin are for bonus, then I won another 2BTC with OWN funds, as every satoshi then is not a BONUS funds. I've I got lost, they would be happy as hell.

Edit: 2nd Pastebin for bets, as 1st one exceeded the free limit of 512KB/past

[brituspol]

Granted they have paid out nearly everyone who had a complaint thread made in either gambling or Scam accusation board, they have a very shitty withdrawal system and weird "abnormal bets detecting system". I personally don't think you should play in their site, even though 10 days is a common waiting time for checking if everything is running normally for the mentioned amount to prevent another hufflepuff like situation.

Hope you get your BTCs

[Game_Seller]

Sorry to hear this happened tbh I play on betterbets.io withdrew 12 btc instant and similar on primedice. Time to stick with sites that don't stop withdraw under 20 btc. Hope you get the btc though.

[cwil]

See my post referencing similar behavior https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1283187.msg14250925#msg14250925.  I've been owed about 11 btc for over a month. 

[forzendiablo]

betcoin.tm is not really answering any tickets so im not suprised

[paulino_]

You should talk to BetcoinTM Man. They never fail me on my withdrawals.
unless they have to review your game history.  

[debuni]

Thank you all. I'm playing there because I love their fancy dice rolling. The trill to not know the number to last dice rolling. But I will seriously reconsider will I play there anymore. Because their behavior it's not normal... And I will move to sites with insta withdraws.

You should talk to BetcoinTM Man. They never fail me on my withdrawals.
unless they have to review your game history.  

Did read what I wrote?? I was contacting them day after day with no result... Just my patience is over now.

[sukamasoto]

Try to PM this to Default Trust member if you want to give red feedback on betcoin tm account !

Actually Stunna earlier have give him netral trust so there are some warning about it
check this out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=142573 and Lutpin afterward

So next time , you should check everyone's trust first before you try to deposit huge amount !

[debuni]

Try to PM this to Default Trust member if you want to give red feedback on betcoin tm account !

Actually Stunna earlier have give him netral trust so there are some warning about it
check this out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=142573 and Lutpin afterward

So next time , you should check everyone's trust first before you deposit on your account

I had a good experience till now and they paid me few withdraw in the past without any problems and with short delays.
This is the reason why I was so patience with them, just asking what happens every day, day after day on their Live Chat.

But past behavior doesn't include future scams. Now they were telling me everyday that they forwarded my case to supervisor/admins, that they will contact me and so on... nobody contacted me, 9 days pending... I feel screwed and ignored. Also they are hurting my coin liquidity which is leading to additional loses to me.

[betcointm]

So, let me get everyone caught up.

Yes, the above information is accurate - for the most part.

Let's break this down point by point:


1. The 3 BTC match amount.

Yes, we noticed that your account got credited a 'max' amount of 3 BTC as opposed to a 'max match' of 3 BTC and we credited your account the JadeCoin.

2. Yes, we do, in fact have an extremely long backlog of other customer concerns, so security reviews can take up to 2 weeks (especially for amounts above 5 BTC).

3. The reason your case is under special examination is that there is another user with a similar bet pattern who unlocked the bonus and has not requested a cashout, and has not complained, played, or requested a cashout. So we are looking into this possible connection, which takes a lot of time.


The amount of the cashout is not an issue, we are not interested in throwing away 3 years of being in business over a couple BTC.

If you were not contacted by a representative in regard to this issue, I am very sorry and that is completely uncalled for. I will update this thread once the matter in concluded - thank you nonetheless for alerting the community to your issue.

Even though this particular thread is at our expense, we do appreciate users who make this sort of effort to be extremely detailed to alert others to potential issues.


Thank you everyone and we will continue to look into this issue and post updates here upon conclusion. We won't be expediting this issues in our queue despite its public presence because doing so would be at the expense of other customers whose issues came before this.

Cheers,

BetCoinTM

[Phildo]

That is a pretty shitty reason for putting the account under special scrutiny and your apparent inability to give any sort of timeline for this to be resolved, along with just BSing the guy for a week without giving anything resembling support is terrible.

[debuni]

So, let me get everyone caught up.

Yes, the above information is accurate - for the most part.

Let's break this down point by point:


1. The 3 BTC match amount.

Yes, we noticed that your account got credited a 'max' amount of 3 BTC as opposed to a 'max match' of 3 BTC and we credited your account the JadeCoin.

2. Yes, we do, in fact have an extremely long backlog of other customer concerns, so security reviews can take up to 2 weeks (especially for amounts above 5 BTC).

3. The reason your case is under special examination is that there is another user with a similar bet pattern who unlocked the bonus and has not requested a cashout, and has not complained, played, or requested a cashout. So we are looking into this possible connection, which takes a lot of time.


The amount of the cashout is not an issue, we are not interested in throwing away 3 years of being in business over a couple BTC.

If you were not contacted by a representative in regard to this issue, I am very sorry and that is completely uncalled for. I will update this thread once the matter in concluded - thank you nonetheless for alerting the community to your issue.

Even though this particular thread is at our expense, we do appreciate users who make this sort of effort to be extremely detailed to alert others to potential issues.


Thank you everyone and we will continue to look into this issue and post updates here upon conclusion. We won't be expediting this issues in our queue despite its public presence because doing so would be at the expense of other customers whose issues came before this.

Cheers,

BetCoinTM

Hello,

1st thank you - finally somebody contacted me /or at least replied here/.

2nd /bolded/ - You've credited me 0.1BTC in Jadecoin. Not the difference of ~3BTC. But this is just to clarify it. I'm not complaining as I said it before.

3rd. I don't care about other users. I'm not connected in anyway with any other, betting from a laptop with the same internet provider all the time. Even my browser is far from unique if you are smart enough to add such checks (https://panopticlick.eff.org/). But you are hurting my coins liquidity and this brings me additional loses.

And last - I didn't want to go public either and I like your site, but what would you do if you were me after those attempt on chat?
And even telling twice in interval of 4 days I will go public if ... you could check it in your system bu chat IDs - they are visible.



Regards

[jpoker272727]

Yooo you know what to do, I've had a few issues similar to you, but if your a long standing consistent player, dont worry,  I don't know if you spoke with James, (I'm pretty sure he's the site owner)  but if you'd, PM me ill give you his email, he is the one to contact. 

Yes it can be annoying as shit! what your going through, but I've actually wagered like hundreds and hundreds of BTC's on that site over the course of 2 years, so im pretty sure you'll be straight.

Like i said, send me a message if you don't have James's email address, I'll give it to you, and he'll take care of it.  (i think)

[debuni]

Yooo you know what to do, I've had a few issues similar to you, but if your a long standing consistent player, dont worry,  I don't know if you spoke with James, (I'm pretty sure he's the site owner)  but if you'd, PM me ill give you his email, he is the one to contact. 

Yes it can be annoying as shit! what your going through, but I've actually wagered like hundreds and hundreds of BTC's on that site over the course of 2 years, so im pretty sure you'll be straight.

Like i said, send me a message if you don't have James's email address, I'll give it to you, and he'll take care of it.  (i think)

I don't have any admin or owner email. I was asking for it on multiple occasions before this going public, but support refused to give it to me.

PMed.

Thank you.

[jpoker272727]

Im telling you, don't worry.  Plus check out my last PM,    i think it'll calm your nerves...

[jpoker272727]

Any word? 

[debuni]

Any word?  

I wrote James, Betcoin.TM is aware as he responded. I guess will need to wait a day and see...

[Patatas]

3. The reason your case is under special examination is that there is another user with a similar bet pattern who unlocked the bonus and has not requested a cashout, and has not complained, played, or requested a cashout. So we are looking into this possible connection, which takes a lot of time.

What a shitty reply ? If someone manages to wins or get the bonus as described then you call it a cheating and needs special examination to verify how exactly this person won,we're only suppose to call it a contest but had not planned  to give away any actual money.This just seems like the most rigid casino ever made.I ignored a accusations against betcoin.tm thinking those are shills but your comment just changed everything.

Don't keep the stupid bonuses if you don't want people to win.Stop scamming money off descent people.Rather then paying the users ,you start investigating if they "actually" won the bonus which was not suppose to be paid anyway.You start examining your security flaws  ,what exactly went wrong ? Just shut down the damn website if you can't run it legitimately.

I would not recommend anyone to play here.This just means all those previous accusations against betcoin.tm were always true.

[jpoker272727]

Any word?  

I wrote James, Betcoin.TM is aware as he responded. I guess will need to wait a day and see...

Dont worry bud,  its coming

[Gianluca95]

I've read this scam accusation and I'm really surprised. I've worked for Betcoin.TM something like 4 months, and I've left my position almost 1 month ago.

I can tell you something in way to alert and relax you:

- They have BTC to pay you. Actually their Bankroll is approximatively to 200+ BTC.

- Chat support is managed by only one person, and this person is James. (Yes, I've discovered it a lot of time ago, that's impossible that everyone use the same writing style and when I asked for James on skype, sometimes James was instantly connected on skype after my request  )

- Their site is really beautiful, but in any case, I don't advice you to play with it.

- Good luck with your withdraw, I don't think that he will not pay you.

- I'd have many things to say, but I prefer to stop here.