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Author Topic: Who else thinks it's a good thing bitcoin is used to buy illegal drugs?  (Read 1801 times)
Neyo
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June 10, 2011, 09:50:30 AM
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I think bitcoin advocates should stop defending it against allegations it can be used to buy illegal drugs. There's nothing wrong about buying drugs with bitcoin. I wouldn't recommend taking illegal drugs, but it's not the government's business to tell us what we can consume. People die all the time from abusing legal drugs (Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, Derek Boogaard) and nobody proposes to ban them. If the idea behind bitcoin is to liberate people from the government's monopoly on legal tender, we should also celebrate the liberation from harmful government regulation.

full disclosure: I don't drink any alcohol, I don't smoke, and I have never consumed any illegal drug.
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asdf
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June 10, 2011, 09:56:44 AM
 #2

I can finally buy the kind of drugs I actually want to take. I've been waiting years for this.

I don't apologize for bitcoin, in fact I promote the fact that they can be used to buy drugs online.

What drugs I take is none of the governments fucking business.
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June 10, 2011, 10:02:05 AM
 #3

people die all the time driving cars, watching tv, eating fastfood, getting shot by guns, and so on.

imho all drugs should be legalized (some with a few restrictions). by doing so you would destroy a whole drug industry that kills thousands of ppl every year.
just have a look at mexico. do you think its ok to let all these ppl die just because you feel better when these drugs are illegal in your country.
i mean, its not even working, you still can buy them. but with the side effect of killing ppl and funding crime. great idea!

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jashan
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June 10, 2011, 10:04:50 AM
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I don't care whether people buy drugs with Bitcoin just like I don't care when people buy drugs with cash. IMHO, it's their business and not mine, so I don't have a reason to care.

However, I would find it rather weird (funny, actually), if people started promoting cash because they can use it to buy drugs.

John: "Hey, I got DOLLARS ... with those DOLLARS I can buy all kinds of drugs, aren't DOLLARS awesome?"

Hans: "Hey, you know what - I've got something even better: I've got EUROS ... and guess what: I can buy DRUGS and GUNS with EUROS!"

Aiko: "All you guys suck - I've got YEN ... and you know what: I can buy DRUGS, GUNS and SLAVES with YEN! YEN are the best"

So really, what's the benefit for anyone when they say how great Bitcoin is for buying drugs?

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June 10, 2011, 10:07:51 AM
 #5

I totally agree
Also it increases natural selection

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June 10, 2011, 10:08:52 AM
 #6

the important is to use drugs at your home and not outside where u drive or can hurt/kill someone.. drug is YOUR problem NOT MINE.

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Neyo
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June 10, 2011, 10:12:00 AM
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My point is that people should celebrate the fact that by using bitcoin they can escape government regulations. The other day Jeff Garzik was defending bitcoin by saying that it's not anonymous and if you buy drugs with it, the government can still find you. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html

People escaping government regulations by using bitcoin is not a bug, it's a feature, and advocates of bitcoin should understand it.
Dobrodav
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June 10, 2011, 10:15:45 AM
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Well, illegal goods, - illegal currency. Things will come to harmony in that case. Now we are in some confusion stage.

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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June 10, 2011, 10:15:58 AM
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If it should happen that bitcoin does get dragged to the silkroad case, it would open a can of worms that has unlimited legal chaotic consequences. The FED would be guilty of the same thing: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-14/health/cocaine.traces.money_1_cocaine-dollar-bills-paper-bills?_s=PM:HEALTH

A currency is what it should be, secure, private way to transfer wealth for goods. Now with all that being said, anyone who runs an exchange should expect their government might demand sensitive account information from time to time.

I don't think the idea behind bitcoin is to liberate people from the government's monopoly on legal tender, because that is illegal! I think the idea of bitcoin is a massive technology advancement for secure, cost efficient, payments over internet.

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June 10, 2011, 10:17:36 AM
 #10

BTW: If you want the war on drugs to end (which I think would be a very wise thing to do - the war on drugs is futile and stupid and causing tremendous amounts of harm), you might consider supporting:

DPA - Drug Policy Alliance
MAPS - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies

There might be others ... even AVAAZ is now supporting "end the war on drugs" but personally I don't really trust AVAAZ and prefer supporting specific organizations with a specific purpose.

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June 10, 2011, 10:22:09 AM
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BTW: If you want the war on drugs to end (which I think would be a very wise thing to do - the war on drugs is futile and stupid and causing tremendous amounts of harm), you might consider supporting:

DPA - Drug Policy Alliance
MAPS - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies

There might be others ... even AVAAZ is now supporting "end the war on drugs" but personally I don't really trust AVAAZ and prefer supporting specific organizations with a specific purpose.

I think all sane people would. But the problem is that it would KILL the arbitrage in drug trafficing, which would bancrupt the worlds largest unofficial corporation. Needless to say it would also hurt US defence contractors. It would also reduce the amount of armed crimes as well as "harmless crimes" (such as small drug possession), the police wants work too so do the prisons.

I hate to sound negative, but our world is fucked up, there is no way drugs will be legal due to all the "jobs", and "businesses" it would liquidate.

Dobrodav
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June 10, 2011, 10:22:55 AM
 #12

Hmm... legal goods and legal currency , will also fit in perfect harmony of the world.

i am think ... We can retrain DEA police officers to qualified drug dealers. Who else knows better on supply and demand of this stuff ?
They all ready got full view of the market ...

  And, they will be extremely useful, they should (and cos police training, they can) knockout all illegal, unjustified drug sellers.

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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cloud9
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June 10, 2011, 10:35:45 AM
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Probably only the illegal drug buyers / sellers think it's a good thing bitcoin is used to buy illegal drugs.

Maybe the focus should be on getting out of our comfy offices and catching illegal drug buyers / seller out there and not so much on Bitcoin.  Or start focussing instead on the US dollar used by a much larger illegal industry internationally - if you want to deviate from the real problem and put blame on the medium of exchange (which can be any asset class or privilege perc).

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion.  On a public forum you do not need permission from me to derive your own conclusion / opinion, so please do.

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion and/or musings and/or hypothesisses.  On a non-authoritative, peer-to-peer public forum, you do not need permission from Cloud9 to derive your own conclusions or opinions, so please do.  Calculations and assumptions to be verified.
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June 10, 2011, 10:47:55 AM
 #14

Maybe the focus should be on getting out of our comfy offices and catching illegal drug buyers / seller out there and not so much on Bitcoin.

The ironic thing is that Bitcoin is actually going to help some of those people being caught. It's going to hit those that don't fully understand the design of Bitcoin and fail to take the proper precautions. People that were lured in by the "Bitcoin is the way to pay fully anonymously"-folks and not reading the fine-print (which is available on the Wiki - so it's really their own failure to educate themselves, not like anyone "tricked" them, no one to blame).

Same with people using BitTorrent for illegal activity and falling easy prey to the greedy music and film industries.

Conspiracy theorists would probably call this a honeypot ... or sugarcane.

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June 10, 2011, 10:48:42 AM
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Probably only the illegal drug buyers / sellers think it's a good thing bitcoin is used to buy illegal drugs.

Maybe the focus should be on getting out of our comfy offices and catching illegal drug buyers / seller out there and not so much on Bitcoin.  Or start focussing instead on the US dollar used by a much larger illegal industry internationally - if you want to deviate from the real problem and put blame on the medium of exchange (which can be any asset class or privilege perc).

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion.  On a public forum you do not need permission from me to derive your own conclusion / opinion, so please do.

Agree, I'm surprised at how many junkies there are on the forum. Then again it used to be the same with anarchists/anti state activists etc.

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June 10, 2011, 01:49:05 PM
 #16

I think the congress and the white house should have mandatory drug screening. In my experience it's people who take this pretend puritanical, holier than thou attitude that are usually guilty of the crime the pretend to be against. Senator whatshisface is most probably a junky.
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June 10, 2011, 02:36:39 PM
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Probably only the illegal drug buyers / sellers think it's a good thing bitcoin is used to buy illegal drugs.

Maybe the focus should be on getting out of our comfy offices and catching illegal drug buyers / seller out there and not so much on Bitcoin.  Or start focussing instead on the US dollar used by a much larger illegal industry internationally - if you want to deviate from the real problem and put blame on the medium of exchange (which can be any asset class or privilege perc).

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion.  On a public forum you do not need permission from me to derive your own conclusion / opinion, so please do.

Agree, I'm surprised at how many junkies there are on the forum. Then again it used to be the same with anarchists/anti state activists etc.

Ad hominem attacks are certainly one way to shut down an argument, but not a very effective way. If you read the op's post, (s)he states that they have never tried any non-legal drug, yet thinks it invalid that government should legislate consumption of drugs. This is the position of John Mill, who was not a junky. This is the position of the government of Portugal, which I assume is not composed of junkies. This is the policy of Mexico, which is not a country of junkies. This is the libertarian (anarchist, anti-statist, minarchist, etc.) position. Attempting to sweep away the discussion by calling its participants "junkies" is an attempt to  invalidate those who disagree with you by associating them with that emotionally-charged word.



Where this issue is relevant to bitcoin is that people are going to use an unregulated currency to trade in the black market. Whether you like the idea that that will happen or not is irrelevant. There is no way out of it. If you support a near-anonymous currency, the most you can do is distance yourself from those who use it for nefarious reasons. But if one allows the argument about the validity of bitcoin to be framed on the issue of its use on the black market, one will lose public support. It's inevitable that a non-state currency will attract libertarians who, in principle, don't believe that government should regulate drug consumption. It will also attract black marketeers who see a way to protect themselves when conducting trade.

It's an important discussion to have because those who oppose non-state currency such as bitcoin, and wish the government to clamp down on it, are going to seize on this issue (black market use) as a reason to clamp down. For those of us who support bitcoin, there isn't any point in getting dragged into a discussion of the rights and wrongs of the black market. Getting involved in that discussion is a distraction, and that distraction is a tactic that is being used to try to undermine bitcoin. Reject the very argument that the validity of bitcoin has anything to do with its potential uses. The best response to this criticism of bitcoin is to accept that people are going to sell and buy non-legal drugs using bitcoin, realise that there is nothing we can do about it, and respond to critics that it is an inevitable consequence of this system, and that it is an acceptable consequence. The benefits of bitcoin outweigh these disadvantages. Afterall, state-sanctioned currency is used on the black market, and to a much, much greater extent than bitcoin will ever be used on the black market. Since use-on-the-black-market is not a reason to reject state-sanction currency, why should it be a reason to reject non-state-sanctioned currency? Allowing critics to inflate the disadvantages, or inflate people's perceptions of those disadvantages, is a good way to bring about the end of this medium.

Note that this issue is the very same which the government will use to clamp down on encryption. Encryption can be used by criminals/terrorists, therefore it must be stopped. Do you accept the premises of that argument?
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June 10, 2011, 06:25:18 PM
 #18

Any non-violent way to frustrate the operations of government is a good thing.
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