[ANN] OPENDIME v3 – Now *Genuine Verified* Bitcoin Credit Stick (in stock!)

[nvK]

The only issue I have with the devices (and I have some Opendimes) is that once you get the Private Key by breaking the seal, you have to import the keys into another real wallet, and apparently some wallets (HD?) will not allow importing Private Keys...  Am I wrong on this? 

Electrum and Copay have no issues sweeping the private key from an Opendime.

Question:

Once the hole is popped , It can still be used as a wallet  , funding and withdrawing multi times at will ...??  correct...

Technically yes. If you deposit again, it's just a private key you control. You can re-sweep it.

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[nvK]

Hello.

Here is the Release Candidate for Opendime v2 and a White-paper draft.

https://github.com/opendime/opendime/tree/master/v2

Feedback welcomed!

Thanks

[elokk]

when do these ship?

[nvK]

when do these ship?

We are planing to start shipping units mid march.

[nvK]

All shipped.

V2 now in Stock!

[alexrossi]

The part that scares me: If I plan to use it as a long term storage equipment, how I can be sure that the NAND flash will store the private key without loosing it as it could happen with a standard usb drive left in the drawer for a long time?

[nvK]

The part that scares me: If I plan to use it as a long term storage equipment, how I can be sure that the NAND flash will store the private key without loosing it as it could happen with a standard usb drive left in the drawer for a long time?

You can always unseal it and backup the private key.

[alexrossi]

The part that scares me: If I plan to use it as a long term storage equipment, how I can be sure that the NAND flash will store the private key without loosing it as it could happen with a standard usb drive left in the drawer for a long time?

You can always unseal it and backup the private key.

I can also generate an offline seed and backup it on a uncompromised machine...

The point is: opendime, wonderful idea, but what about the long term security without exposing the private key?

I would never accept an opendime as a payment, cause is basically a deteriorable asset

[nvK]

The part that scares me: If I plan to use it as a long term storage equipment, how I can be sure that the NAND flash will store the private key without loosing it as it could happen with a standard usb drive left in the drawer for a long time?

You can always unseal it and backup the private key.

I can also generate an offline seed and backup it on a uncompromised machine...

The point is: opendime, wonderful idea, but what about the long term security without exposing the private key?

You can't have both. It's either a never exposed private key or it has a backup.

[alexrossi]

The part that scares me: If I plan to use it as a long term storage equipment, how I can be sure that the NAND flash will store the private key without loosing it as it could happen with a standard usb drive left in the drawer for a long time?

You can always unseal it and backup the private key.

I can also generate an offline seed and backup it on a uncompromised machine...

The point is: opendime, wonderful idea, but what about the long term security without exposing the private key?

You can't have both. It's either a never exposed private key or it has a backup.

Let me explain with a decent example. I don't know if you have already heard of the Ledger Nano. Basically in the setup process, the nano output once the seed to your computer (that is supposed to run a live distro), so you can have peace of mind even in the case that the nano is destroyed.

I know that the opendime is supposed to be a security token that you can pass to other users and cannot have this function, but the insecurity caused of random (and systematical in large production batches) malfunction is really a deal breaker to me.

However I wouldn't hide that the idea of testing one of them is really appealing, i like the concept!

[deisik]

You can't have both. It's either a never exposed private key or it has a backup.

Let me explain with a decent example. I don't know if you have already heard of the Ledger Nano. Basically in the setup process, the nano output once the seed to your computer (that is supposed to run a live distro), so you can have peace of mind even in the case that the nano is destroyed.

I know that the opendime is supposed to be a security token that you can pass to other users and cannot have this function, but the insecurity caused of random (and systematical in large production batches) malfunction is really a deal breaker to me.

However I wouldn't hide that the idea of testing one of them is really appealing, i like the concept!

We have recently discussed this matter in depth

What you are telling is the same when you have a backup. In that case the whole idea of whatever device you are using is losing its major aim (i.e. keeping your coins safe). It could be argued that it is still better than, say, a web wallet, but your coins are still not 100% safe. On the other hand, Opendimes are exactly that, if it breaks you lose the coins, so no way back. But these devices are in fact not assumed to be used for long-term storage, to begin with. They are there to enable off-chain, hand-to-hand transactions when you want to buy something but don't want to leave a footprint on the blockchain. In other words, you put your coins there and then give this piece to someone who can do with the coins whatever he wants

[alexrossi]

They are there to enable off-chain, hand-to-hand transactions when you want to buy something but don't want to leave a footprint on the blockchain.

Yes, they are cool! (Honestly if there was a discount or something like a coupon to have them for a lower price, I'd buy a couple to do an audit on the durability in tough conditions)

My point is: the trade-off on leaving a blockchain footprint vs single point of failure is worth enough for real use cases?

First use case:

- WOW, with opendime i CAN actually do microtransactions!!! I load them once and I can have peace of mind about not being harassed by slow blockchain and costly fees!
- Ahh crap, I'm handing out a 15 bucks device for my coffee transaction, definitely not worth it :/

Second use case:

- Opendime is super nice, finally I don't have to wait confirmations when I'll buy my private yacht
- Craaaap, I have plugged in multiple times my opendime and It's definitely dead!!! How can I recover my 50 BTC loss :/

[nvK]

They are there to enable off-chain, hand-to-hand transactions when you want to buy something but don't want to leave a footprint on the blockchain.

Yes, they are cool! (Honestly if there was a discount or something like a coupon to have them for a lower price, I'd buy a couple to do an audit on the durability in tough conditions)

My point is: the trade-off on leaving a blockchain footprint vs single point of failure is worth enough for real use cases?

IMHO; Yes, it's worth it. Hard to put a price on real privacy/fungibility.

You can equate it to carrying a large pile of cash/gold for an in-person exchange. There is always risk.

[deisik]

They are there to enable off-chain, hand-to-hand transactions when you want to buy something but don't want to leave a footprint on the blockchain.

Yes, they are cool! (Honestly if there was a discount or something like a coupon to have them for a lower price, I'd buy a couple to do an audit on the durability in tough conditions)

My point is: the trade-off on leaving a blockchain footprint vs single point of failure is worth enough for real use cases?

First use case:

- WOW, with opendime i CAN actually do microtransactions!!! I load them once and I can have peace of mind about not being harassed by slow blockchain and costly fees!
- Ahh crap, I'm handing out a 15 bucks device for my coffee transaction, definitely not worth it :/

Second use case:

- Opendime is super nice, finally I don't have to wait confirmations when I'll buy my private yacht
- Craaaap, I have plugged in multiple times my opendime and It's definitely dead!!! How can I recover my 50 BTC loss :/

There is certainly a third use case

Basically, when the average transaction fee rises above the price of one OpenDime device (or comes pretty close to it). This thread has been inactive for some time, but now when the fees are skyrocketing together with the Bitcoin price, it is active again, and this is not a mere coincidence. It could eventually make sense to buy a dozen OpenDime devices to pay for your yacht in a more or less safe way, without someone closely following your online transactions which you would have to make otherwise, and without risking much in case of a device failure

[alexrossi]

Basically, when the average transaction fee rises above the price of one OpenDime device (or comes pretty close to it). This thread has been inactive for some time, but now when the fees are skyrocketing together with the Bitcoin price, it is active again, and this is not a coincidence. It could eventually make sense to buy a dozen OpenDime pieces to pay for your yacht in a more or less safe way, without someone closely following your online transactions which you would have to make otherwise

Damn dude this is an apocalyptic scenery! One should keep his stack separated in different devices to be sure that at least a part of them should run properly. As I stated before I like the concept but maybe they are a little expensive in the actual situation.

[nvK]

Basically, when the average transaction fee rises above the price of one OpenDime device (or comes pretty close to it). This thread has been inactive for some time, but now when the fees are skyrocketing together with the Bitcoin price, it is active again, and this is not a coincidence. It could eventually make sense to buy a dozen OpenDime pieces to pay for your yacht in a more or less safe way, without someone closely following your online transactions which you would have to make otherwise

Damn dude this is an apocalyptic scenery! One should keep his stack separated in different devices to be sure that at least a part of them should run properly. As I stated before I like the concept but maybe they are a little expensive in the actual situation.

I think alexrossi's criticism come from not fully understanding how it works or never handled one in hand.

alexrossi if you ever actually try one, you will probably change your mind.

[alexrossi]

Basically, when the average transaction fee rises above the price of one OpenDime device (or comes pretty close to it). This thread has been inactive for some time, but now when the fees are skyrocketing together with the Bitcoin price, it is active again, and this is not a coincidence. It could eventually make sense to buy a dozen OpenDime pieces to pay for your yacht in a more or less safe way, without someone closely following your online transactions which you would have to make otherwise

Damn dude this is an apocalyptic scenery! One should keep his stack separated in different devices to be sure that at least a part of them should run properly. As I stated before I like the concept but maybe they are a little expensive in the actual situation.

I think alexrossi's criticism come from not fully understanding how it works or never handled one in hand.

alexrossi if you ever actually try one, you will probably change your mind.

Well what I know is that with electronic devices there is always a percentage of dead on arrival devices and instable devices that will die a little later. You know, private key on an unlucky opendime could be worth thousands and totally lost, without possibility of recovery.

Yes, I haven't tried one yet, that's true. In my opinion the seller should give the opportunity to buy just one, to take confidence with these devices and eventually do a bigger step after by buying many others.

[nvK]

Basically, when the average transaction fee rises above the price of one OpenDime device (or comes pretty close to it). This thread has been inactive for some time, but now when the fees are skyrocketing together with the Bitcoin price, it is active again, and this is not a coincidence. It could eventually make sense to buy a dozen OpenDime pieces to pay for your yacht in a more or less safe way, without someone closely following your online transactions which you would have to make otherwise

Damn dude this is an apocalyptic scenery! One should keep his stack separated in different devices to be sure that at least a part of them should run properly. As I stated before I like the concept but maybe they are a little expensive in the actual situation.

I think alexrossi's criticism come from not fully understanding how it works or never handled one in hand.

alexrossi if you ever actually try one, you will probably change your mind.

Well what I know is that with electronic devices there is always a percentage of dead on arrival devices and instable devices that will die a little later. You know, private key on an unlucky opendime could be worth thousands and totally lost, without possibility of recovery.

Yes, I haven't tried one yet, that's true. In my opinion the seller should give the opportunity to buy just one, to take confidence with these devices and eventually do a bigger step after by buying many others.

We test the hell out of this devices and discard the factory DOAs, then we program them and re-test them.
Is it possible someone breaks theirs? Yes.
But I deal in facts not hypotheticals; This is the 3rd batch of devices, thousands sold and 0 returned this far.

[alexrossi]

We test the hell out of this devices and discard the factory DOAs, then we program them and re-test them.
Is it possible someone breaks theirs? Yes.
But I deal in facts not hypotheticals; This is the 3rd batch of devices, thousands sold and 0 returned this far.

Well, this is good to hear. May I ask if it's possible to have a discount in case of group buys? Many users in Italy could be interested in a device like (me too)

[nvK]

We test the hell out of this devices and discard the factory DOAs, then we program them and re-test them.
Is it possible someone breaks theirs? Yes.
But I deal in facts not hypotheticals; This is the 3rd batch of devices, thousands sold and 0 returned this far.

Well, this is good to hear. May I ask if it's possible to have a discount in case of group buys? Many users in Italy could be interested in a device like (me too)

Just gather a few folks and place an order