interest check: aluminum, steel, titanium cold storage cards (BIP38)

[klondike_bar]

Ive been able to find a producer capable of manufacturing high-quality cold sstorage options on business-card sized metal blanks (aluminum, titanium, or stainless steel) with a wide variety of colour/anodizing/engraving capabilities.

As with many things, there is a significant benefit to bulk purchasing custom work slots like this, to the extent of 50-60% cost reduction for even 1-off engravings

1-sided BIP38 cards (basic design, written address, private key, and QR code) range $3 for aluminum to $6 for titanium
2-sided cards are about $1/ea more
1-sided titanium would be about 5/$20, 10/$30, 20/$50, 50/$100.
basic shipping would be ~$5-10 depending how many cards are ordered
 
This is massively cheaper than anything else ive seen available, and if a group purchase reaches 100+ Another 10% could probably be saved.

If interested, please put desired number of cards, material, and number of unique designs. BIP38 is required so that your private keys are kept secure even if exposed during the manufacturing/engraving process.

[CanaryInTheMine]

Ti sounds interesting... Would like to see some sketches...

[Mitchell]

So like the now no longer sold Cryptographi Cards?

[klondike_bar]

Ti sounds interesting... Would like to see some sketches...

Im hoping to get some sample cards next week to demonstrate what is possible. Tere's no reason why i could not have custom engraving based on desins you provide, oterwise format will be similar to other cryptocards like the bitkee

Im quasi-fresh to BIP38 though. common sense says that this is the weak point in the chain and must be protected against bruteforce attacks, while also being able to be remembered. many services offer to destroy all records, but it is naive to think that's reason for a weak password IMO.

[mocacinno]

Ti sounds interesting... Would like to see some sketches...

Im hoping to get some sample cards next week to demonstrate what is possible. Tere's no reason why i could not have custom engraving based on desins you provide, oterwise format will be similar to other cryptocards like the bitkee

Im quasi-fresh to BIP38 though. common sense says that this is the weak point in the chain and must be protected against bruteforce attacks, while also being able to be remembered. many services offer to destroy all records, but it is naive to think that's reason for a weak password IMO.

I think you're right on this point, BIP38 encryption is pretty strong (AFAIK), it's not  that fast to brute-force with current technology. However, i would never give my encrypted private key to somebody i didn't know... No offense, but i just wouldn't do that.

[klondike_bar]

Ti sounds interesting... Would like to see some sketches...

Im hoping to get some sample cards next week to demonstrate what is possible. Tere's no reason why i could not have custom engraving based on desins you provide, oterwise format will be similar to other cryptocards like the bitkee

Im quasi-fresh to BIP38 though. common sense says that this is the weak point in the chain and must be protected against bruteforce attacks, while also being able to be remembered. many services offer to destroy all records, but it is naive to think that's reason for a weak password IMO.

I think you're right on this point, BIP38 encryption is pretty strong (AFAIK), it's not  that fast to brute-force with current technology. However, i would never give my encrypted private key to somebody i didn't know... No offense, but i just wouldn't do that.

exactly - and AFAIK thats the biggest issue with 3rd party cold storage cards (regardless of assurances otherwise). BIP38 allows you to employ complex passwords immune to bruteforce, but as mentioned those open up other problems (where do you store that password?).

Its not for everyone, but i thought that if there's enough interest for 20+ cards the prices are quite good for n-of-m (still using BIP38 as backup) or simply to carry a public key around in your wallet as a conversation piece.

[Lauda]

Interesting. It really comes down to how they look and feel. I'm certain that if the storage card is of greater quality that you will have no problem finding sellers. I'd definitely buy one (in that case) as well. When can we expect to see some sketches (should you choose to go forward with this)?

[CryptoBuds]

Those are so cheap that it is worrying. An aluminum business card blank runs around $0.75 usd and laser engravers are not cheap at all. Factor in creating he qr codes, laying out the art and etching them they are only making about $4-6 per hour. That makes me wonder if it legit or not or what the quality of the card and the etch is. That price is not factoring in any type of machine maintenance (laser tubes are consumables, they need to be replaced eventually and cost hundreds of dollars, depending on their wattage).

Can I ask what country these are coming from?  Can you provide any images of the designs they are offering? They should have those available at the very least.

[cryptoheadd]

Sounds great.
Have any sketches or something?

Count me in, none-the-less. 

[AhmedAshraf]

Very interesting. Please do PM me if you go forward with that!

[Zyro]

I'm interested.  Will be watching for updates on this. 

[klondike_bar]

Those are so cheap that it is worrying. An aluminum business card blank runs around $0.75 usd and laser engravers are not cheap at all. Factor in creating he qr codes, laying out the art and etching them they are only making about $4-6 per hour. That makes me wonder if it legit or not or what the quality of the card and the etch is. That price is not factoring in any type of machine maintenance (laser tubes are consumables, they need to be replaced eventually and cost hundreds of dollars, depending on their wattage).

Can I ask what country these are coming from?  Can you provide any images of the designs they are offering? They should have those available at the very least.

I was surprised to,it sounds like it's $1/side/card to use a fiber laser (whatever that is, supposedly a step up from co2 lasers)

Design isn't available yet, they are a Canadian supplier of metal rings/blanks who I approached with the custom request. Provided a 1-colour jpg or similar image format they can engrave that on the blanks. As such, custom work shouldn't b a problem if you provide the design, otherwise I will just use a basic qr/text format that might take a minute to produce and verify if all you provide is the text address and/or key

Tldr; if you can make r template you will get the best price. Otherwise I might add a small fee to prep it myself (maybe $2/card assuming it takes 2-4min to produce and validate the layout). I'm working to get a sample made early next week.

What do people suggest for a secure bip38 password storage? I considered adding 'clues' to the cards, but that still exposes some risk of cracking if they are not unique or cryptic enough, and seems like more of a risk then writing them on (flammable, water-damagable) paper if not well thought out

[bithalo]

I would possibly be in for one or more, depending on how they look.

[BG4]

Those are so cheap that it is worrying. An aluminum business card blank runs around $0.75 usd and laser engravers are not cheap at all. Factor in creating he qr codes, laying out the art and etching them they are only making about $4-6 per hour. That makes me wonder if it legit or not or what the quality of the card and the etch is. That price is not factoring in any type of machine maintenance (laser tubes are consumables, they need to be replaced eventually and cost hundreds of dollars, depending on their wattage).

Can I ask what country these are coming from?  Can you provide any images of the designs they are offering? They should have those available at the very least.

I have the capabilities to do laser engraved Aluminum business cards and the layout for individual cards with QR codes and bip38 addresses is not any easier in larger quantities.  You need to rethink your pricing...  With that said....  Keeping everyones bip38 addresses straight, would be a nightmare.   The pricing you may have gotten was for 100 of the same etched card....and not individual custom work....

My 2 Satoshi..
BG4

[klondike_bar]

I'm not sure if I could make a business of it or not, but I know if I provided a folder of 50+ jpeg files I can get extremely competitive prices

A lot comes down to my samples, which I'll make sure to show off. If they can laser and appropriately-sized monochromatic design easily and cheaply i could produce cards beyond simple storage (like public address only, customised artwork/ID cards, etc) if the image is provided by the buyer and can be achieved

[BG4]

I'm not sure if I could make a business of it or not, but I know if I provided a folder of 50+ jpeg files I can get extremely competitive prices

A lot comes down to my samples, which I'll make sure to show off. If they can laser and appropriately-sized monochromatic design easily and cheaply i could produce cards beyond simple storage (like public address only, customised artwork/ID cards, etc) if the image is provided by the buyer and can be achieved

I haven't found an easy way for QR code / Public Address / Encrypted Private Key graphic manipulation IN BULK , besides Cut and Paste ..which is extremely time consuming .......... and trust me......I have tried!!!

GOOD LUCK.....

[klondike_bar]

I'm not sure if I could make a business of it or not, but I know if I provided a folder of 50+ jpeg files I can get extremely competitive prices

A lot comes down to my samples, which I'll make sure to show off. If they can laser and appropriately-sized monochromatic design easily and cheaply i could produce cards beyond simple storage (like public address only, customised artwork/ID cards, etc) if the image is provided by the buyer and can be achieved

I haven't found an easy way for QR code / Public Address / Encrypted Private Key graphic manipulation IN BULK , besides Cut and Paste ..which is extremely time consuming .......... and trust me......I have tried!!!

GOOD LUCK.....

Yeah I'll have to look into it, but even manually generating a qr and copying it into a template image should be pretty quick, <5min, maybe ~2min in bulk..?

Ive got everything lined up for a sample set. Iv got the time tomorrow to produce the templates and place an order. Pricing will be <$20 for a set of 3 unique cards and is cheaper on bulk a mentioned before.

It was alluded that these will not be the same thickness as the 'indestructable' cards made by the likes of bitkee, but thicker titanium cards are expected in the near future. Not sure if that means these will be flexible/flimsy, but ive got a good feeling.

I'm always looking for input - is bip38 with a secure password the best route? Do I expose myself in any major ways (beyond the possibility that a malicious production could retain the info and monitor the addresses - which is an argument easily made against bitkee/casascius in the past)?