(Flame On) Evidence that Bitcoin is an amazing new type of sustainable 'Ponzi'!

[Bit_Happy]

Great news!
Satoshi did something truly amazing.

Here are some basic similarities between Bitcoin and an actual Ponzi scheme:
1) Large amounts of new money are (currently) required to sustain today's price, and many more new "bagholders" are needed to create a large gain in price.
2) Once you are "converted" many people are motivated to spread the word, and pleased when they get others to join.
3) The first people in made/make a HUGE RETURN on their initial investment.  (Note: BTC once sold publicly for less than half a penny each  //  < $0.005/BTC!!  // A very small purchase could make you a multi-millionaire (If we were discussing anything else, it would be laughed off as "too good to be true" and a certain scam)
4) Sceptics and naysayers use the term "bagholder" to describe dedicated believers.
5) .... I can think of others, but not going there right now....


Please read this part before you reply
^^^
I am not saying this "amazing new type of sustainable Ponzi" is a bad thing.
Did Satoshi really create the world's first "thing similar to a Ponzi" which is actually sustainable and will bring tremendous opportunities to a huge number of people?

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[aarons6]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

[AgentofCoin]

1) Large amounts of new money are (currently) required to sustain today's price, and many more new "bagholders" are needed to create a large gain in price.

That is the same for precious metals and the stock market.
In fact, Satoshi said that bitcoin is designed like the fundamentals of gold.

2) Once you are "converted" many people are motivated to spread the word, and pleased when they get others to join.

That is the same as all things such as politics, religion, video games, social clubs, time-shares, protests, charities, etc.
Those are not considered to be ponzis.

3) The first people in made/make a HUGE RETURN on their initial investment.  ....

That is the same as early tech stocks (microsoft, apple) and early pharma stocks.
All forms of speculation is based on buying now at cheaper price, to sell later in hopes of higher.

4) Sceptics and naysayers use the term "bagholder" to describe dedicated believers.

The term "bagholder" used today, originates from financial market trading, such as stocks.
The term can be attributed to anyone or anything by anyone for purposes to discredit, whether valid or not.


Conclusion:
By this logic, Bitcoin/bitcoin is as much as a ponzi as everything else man has created or attempts to control.
This could potentially include life itself, since the children born today are the bagholders of their parents.
So ultimately, it is worthless to go down this path. Your whole life is a ponzi, by your premise.

[cpfreeplz]

I think you need to look up the basic word first.

"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent."

There is no fraudulent investment here. Mining takes electricity, effort and hardware. That means it takes money to create Bitcoins.

There is no organization. It's open source.

There are no returns being paid. 1BTC is one BTC.

Bitcoin is more like a start-up company than a ponzi.

[pooya87]

its really a shame to see this topic posted by a legendary member, you would think after 4 years of being on this forum from 2011 you know by now what a ponzi scheme is and what bitcoin is.

when you pay money to a ponzi you get diddly squat in return, and the owners/starters promise you a return which they will pay to early adopters from the next adopters and meanwhile you are sitting there with your diddly squat in hand day-dreaming of being rich.

when you invest in so called bitcoin, you get bitcoin in return a crypto-currency that you can use for a lot of good things (shall i get into all of them here?) i believe we all know them. and not to mention this so called (by you) ponzi scheme starter satoshi never cashed out which is the part and parcel of any ponzi.

3) The first people in made/make a HUGE RETURN on their initial investment.  ....

That is the same as early tech stocks (microsoft, apple) and early pharma stocks.
All forms of speculation is based on buying now at cheaper price, to sell later in hopes of higher.

this part made me laugh my ass off
by this logic those who have bought apple or facebook share with like $1 a share have participated in a big ponzi.

[vallueable]

Id say bitcoin and most  investments are like pyramid schemes in that your investment only appreciates if more people join after you.

Bitcoin is just a really good pyramid scheme because you  get something that you  can use, that  is better than all competitors*, and you can always exchange it back.

[bittraffic]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

no but silver and gold aren't online stuff. let those keepers keep it themselves bitcoin are suppose to be spent for its economy.

[xhomerx10]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

 Ummmm....



...with respect to what?  Its feelings or my portfolio?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

 Ummmm....



...with respect to what?  It's feelings or my portfolio?

I'm not talking about any time frame in particular,  I mean does holding it (as opposed to spending it) hurt it as an investment.   

[cjmoles]

Okay....In the beginning bitcoin was worth nothing.  There were no exchanges or gateways or reserves....there was just a small community of followers pumping electricity into the network.  As the community grew so did bitcoin's value.  It is the strength of the community that provides the value to bitcoin....the exchanges and the exchange rate are just a byproduct of that network.  Right?  In the beginning, there wasn't anybody stating, "you give us so much and you'll get so much in return."  As interest grew, demand grew and as the demand grew, the available supply decreased.  Finally, one couldn't get bitcoin without real dollars....It's the communities interest that provides the value to the token and it's the network that secures that value....It's a whole new way of measuring tender.  It doesn't resemble a ponzi at all from that perspective.

[cjmoles]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

 Ummmm....



...with respect to what?  It's feelings or my portfolio?

I'm not talking about any time frame in particular,  I mean does holding it (as opposed to spending it) hurt it as an investment.  

Well, what would happen if all transactions just suddenly stopped?  Would it become more valuable or less valuable? If there were no purchases being made, would there be any stores?  If there weren't any stores accepting bitcoin, would there still be a demand for the token?  Hmmm

[xhomerx10]

actually the only way bitcoin will work is if people spend them..

holding bitcoin is hurting it.

Does holding gold & silver hurt either one of those investments?

 Ummmm....

[image redacted for brevity]

...with respect to what?  It's feelings or my portfolio?

I'm not talking about any time frame in particular,  I mean does holding it (as opposed to spending it) hurt it as an investment.   

 Okay so for gold and silver I would have to say "no" but it is hard to compare them to Bitcoin in that respect.  There aren't many places to "spend" gold and silver as they are not recognized as a currency; rather a commodity.  Bitcoin was meant to be a currency so holding it as a commodity probably is doing it a disservice since ultimately the reward for mining will only be transaction fees and few transactions means small reward for miners.  I'm no expert but I plan to hold some coins, spend some coins and continuously refresh my stock similar to what I do with the fiat I earn working.

[jambola2]

The reason gold and silver don't get hurt from being held is that they have intrinsic value.
Fiat/BTC has no intrinsic value, but gold and silver do. And they will retain this intrinsic value despite being held for long periods of time.

BTC will die if it remains unused and simply held though.