AntMiner S7 > BW 14 nm?

[Efficiency V]

I know I am probably missing something here, just need help with what it is.  The way I am running the numbers it still seems like the AntMiner S7 is more efficent that the upcoming BW 14 nm.  This wouldn't make any sense, so here is how I am looking at it currently:

AntMiner S7  / 4.73 TH/s = 4730000000000 Hashs/s / 1293W = 3658159319 Hashs Per Watt Efficiency
BW 14 nm / 63.0 GH/s (maximum advertised) = 63000000000 Hashs/s / 18W = 3500000000 Hashs Per Watt Efficiency

This seems to make the S7 more efficient by 158159319 Hashs

I understand there are simpler ways to break this down, but I wanted to go all the way to Hashs. Also i understand the BW 14 nm has not been released to the public and that the final stats on it may not be known.  Over all though what am I missing here?  

As a backdrop:
I am new to mining and want to start into it effectively and I am trying to decide if I should wait for the BW 14 nm to release which may obsolete the S7 or if should just get some S7s.  And even still with the upcoming halving that I am hearing about should I just skip Bitcoin and start mining LiteCoin or another alternative (with different mining equipment of course).

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[notlist3d]

I know I am probably missing something here, just need help with what it is.  The way I am running the numbers it still seems like the AntMiner S7 is more efficent that the upcoming BW 14 nm.  This wouldn't make any sense, so here is how I am looking at it currently:

AntMiner S7  / 4.73 TH/s = 4730000000000 Hashs/s / 1293W = 3658159319 Hashs Per Watt Efficiency
BW 14 nm / 63.0 GH/s (maximum advertised) = 63000000000 Hashs/s / 18W = 3500000000 Hashs Per Watt Efficiency

This seems to make the S7 more efficient by 158159319 Hashs

I understand there are simpler ways to break this down, but I wanted to go all the way to Hashs. Also i understand the BW 14 nm has not been released to the public and that the final stats on it may not be known.  Over all though what am I missing here?  

As a backdrop:
I am new to mining and want to start into it effectively and I am trying to decide if I should wait for the BW 14 nm to release which may obsolete the S7 or if should just get some S7s.  And even still with the upcoming halving that I am hearing about should I just skip Bitcoin and start mining LiteCoin or another alternative (with different mining equipment of course).

Where are you getting your info on spec?   The B11 is here - https://www.bw.com/pool/miner .  And remember this  is early on in chips so hard to say what they will hit once they fine tune them.

They also have not been mass released on BW's.  A reseller or two got a few and tried to sell, but was not really official direct from BW.  So again hard to say on somethings like price.

I think we need more info to make better decision comparing two.  Hard part is we don't know when we will have info on BW final release.

[Efficiency V]

Maybe I was looking at out dated information, I was getting these 14nm numbers from places like:

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/innovation/chinese-miner-releases-14-nm-asic-targeting-consumers/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bw-to-launch-nm-chip-and-miner-for-general-population-1445278227

the link you gave me on the B11 does have completely different number such as the hash rate of "3TH / S, 5TH / S, 10TH / S, to be determined"  that sure is a big possible range, but I guess even at the minimum listed 3 TH/s it would then be more efficient that the S7 model.

I just wish we had some feedback on expected release date to the public so I knew if I should invest in the AntMiner S7 models for now or hold off for these B11 14 nm.  Any recommendations here?  ROI on the S7 for me is 270 days, so not sure if I can get this before any major changes... halving etc.   Just anxious to get started though!

I do have a S3 coming in that I got for like $40  but im pretty sure that I am in the negative on that one from the start profit wise.  Just wanted to get something set up to start playing with.

[philipma1957]

Maybe I was looking at out dated information, I was getting these 14nm numbers from places like:

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/innovation/chinese-miner-releases-14-nm-asic-targeting-consumers/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bw-to-launch-nm-chip-and-miner-for-general-population-1445278227

the link you gave me on the B11 does have completely different number such as the hash rate of "3TH / S, 5TH / S, 10TH / S, to be determined"  that sure is a big possible range, but I guess even at the minimum listed 3 TH/s it would then be more efficient that the S7 model.

I just wish we had some feedback on expected release date to the public so I knew if I should invest in the AntMiner S7 models for now or hold off for these B11 14 nm.  Any recommendations here?  ROI on the S7 for me is 270 days, so not sure if I can get this before any major changes... halving etc.   Just anxious to get started though!

I do have a S3 coming in that I got for like $40  but im pretty sure that I am in the negative on that one from the start profit wise.  Just wanted to get something set up to start playing with.

if your power cost is 12 cents or higher for any gear you are pretty much dead.

So a simple question to you what is your power cost.?

[Efficiency V]

If im calculating the bill rate right, it looks like the rate would be 0.107073

Here is a link to a screenshot of a recent electric bill:

http://postimg.org/image/cnvihmpkx/

Do you think I would be better off starting into Litecoin for now and then Bitcoin mining when the new technology releases... or just jump into a low volume of S7 units and see what happens.  I know its kind of a guessing game.. but... 

[VirosaGITS]

If im calculating the bill rate right, it looks like the rate would be 0.107073

Here is a link to a screenshot of a recent electric bill:



Do you think I would be better off starting into Litecoin for now and then Bitcoin mining when the new technology releases... or just jump into a low volume of S7 units and see what happens.  I know its kind of a guessing game.. but... 

Your electric costs are higher than the costs to have it hosted. Its that bad.

[notlist3d]

Maybe I was looking at out dated information, I was getting these 14nm numbers from places like:

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/innovation/chinese-miner-releases-14-nm-asic-targeting-consumers/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bw-to-launch-nm-chip-and-miner-for-general-population-1445278227

the link you gave me on the B11 does have completely different number such as the hash rate of "3TH / S, 5TH / S, 10TH / S, to be determined"  that sure is a big possible range, but I guess even at the minimum listed 3 TH/s it would then be more efficient that the S7 model.

I just wish we had some feedback on expected release date to the public so I knew if I should invest in the AntMiner S7 models for now or hold off for these B11 14 nm.  Any recommendations here?  ROI on the S7 for me is 270 days, so not sure if I can get this before any major changes... halving etc.   Just anxious to get started though!

I do have a S3 coming in that I got for like $40  but im pretty sure that I am in the negative on that one from the start profit wise.  Just wanted to get something set up to start playing with.

No one can really say what next gen will hit on chips.   The BW's your speaking of were the first production run, they will get better and more perfected... how much? No one is saying if they know.  And what other companies will have? Hard to say.   If anyone knows most likely they are tied into NDA's info about next gen has been slow. 

So it's hard to say.  Recomendation is you need cheap electricity to mine anymore for BTC.  Just is what it is turning into.    And yes likely you are losing money on S3 unless very cheap electricity which it appears you don't have.

[QuintLeo]

The B-Eleven based on it's published specs falls more-or-less in the same efficiency range as the S7 - DEPENDS a lot on which S7 batch though, some are a hair more efficient some are a hair less.

 The big difference is that the S7 is based on the BM1385 FULL CUSTOM 28nm optimised design, the B-Eleven uses the LK-1401 which is NOT a full custom design (their LK-1402 next-gen chip IS supposed to be full-custom with specs competative to the announced Bitfury 14nm chip).


 At your electric cost, you might want to consider Litecoin mining for the short term - if you can get some used A2/Alcheminer/Titan hardware cheap enough. Innosilicon's announced A4 miner might make that idea kinda iffy though, *IF* they actually get the miners shipping by July as they have said they will (Innosilicon has a pretty good track record that way, though it's not their norm to pre-announce stuff before it's actually ready to ship).

 It's probably too late to get into Ethereum, unless you already have most of the hardware on hand or can get used pieces VERY cheap. Diff is rising pretty fast, rewards are dropping, it's profitable for now but making RoI on new gear is looking decidedly iffy.


 Even the next-gen Bitcoin miners might be marginal with your electric cost - it's not HIGH, but it's definitely not cheap. We don't have enough information on cost of miners or miner-level efficiency to even make an informed guess at this point.

[RichBC]

The B-Eleven based on it's published specs falls more-or-less in the same efficiency range as the S7 - DEPENDS a lot on which S7 batch though, some are a hair more efficient some are a hair less.

 The big difference is that the S7 is based on the BM1385 FULL CUSTOM 28nm optimised design, the B-Eleven uses the LK-1401 which is NOT a full custom design (their LK-1402 next-gen chip IS supposed to be full-custom with specs competative to the announced Bitfury 14nm chip).

Also the B11 LK-1401 design is Buck Converter based wheras the improved LK-1402 Miner will be a string based design (As is S7) which will help along the efficiency improvement.

Rich

[leowonderful]

The B-Eleven based on it's published specs falls more-or-less in the same efficiency range as the S7 - DEPENDS a lot on which S7 batch though, some are a hair more efficient some are a hair less.

 The big difference is that the S7 is based on the BM1385 FULL CUSTOM 28nm optimised design, the B-Eleven uses the LK-1401 which is NOT a full custom design (their LK-1402 next-gen chip IS supposed to be full-custom with specs competative to the announced Bitfury 14nm chip).


 At your electric cost, you might want to consider Litecoin mining for the short term - if you can get some used A2/Alcheminer/Titan hardware cheap enough. Innosilicon's announced A4 miner might make that idea kinda iffy though, *IF* they actually get the miners shipping by July as they have said they will (Innosilicon has a pretty good track record that way, though it's not their norm to pre-announce stuff before it's actually ready to ship).

 It's probably too late to get into Ethereum, unless you already have most of the hardware on hand or can get used pieces VERY cheap. Diff is rising pretty fast, rewards are dropping, it's profitable for now but making RoI on new gear is looking decidedly iffy.


 Even the next-gen Bitcoin miners might be marginal with your electric cost - it's not HIGH, but it's definitely not cheap. We don't have enough information on cost of miners or miner-level efficiency to even make an informed guess at this point.

Bitcoin is increasingly more centered towards data centers and places with cheap electricity and cheap air conditioning, and most people don't realize mining could be dead for the average consumer  in only a year or two. Each new generation shows a smaller and smaller increase in power useage, and eventually we'll be getting rigs that have maybe 10-50watts less than the previous generation. Script is viable due to the slow to none release of new asics, so it is definitely viable to mine coins like litecoin. Only problem is, litecoin is on its way down. It does have a large value, but when you see the 2-3 month picture you'll see it's slipping. Watch exchanges, make a good ecision and pick a coin that's stable and profitable, and you'll make a good amount of money.

[Efficiency V]

Ok, Thanks for all the good info and advise everyone, this does help.  I think ill look into starting with some type of altcoin after some more research on what type. For now I will keep an eye on the next gen equipment for bitcoin & what happens with the halving.

The S3 I have arriving today was mainly just to get started into it, get a wallet set up, find a pool/pools and just see how it all works so I am ready when I do get some better equipment. But you are correct that I will be in the negative with the S3... anything over .06 is in the negative and even with free electric the returns on a S3 are low at the current diff.

Thanks again for the help!

[xxcsu]

"Whether it is practical or theoretical performance of energy efficiency, LK1401's performance was significantly better than other previous generation 28nm chip technology, more advanced processes to bring greater room for improvement. LK1401 as the first version of the currency network, plans 3 - Release low-power optimized version LK1402 4 months, it is expected to reduce the power consumption of each T to 95W. "

https://www.bw.com/news/show-70-industry

[QuintLeo]

"Whether it is practical or theoretical performance of energy efficiency, LK1401's performance was significantly better than other previous generation 28nm chip technology, more advanced processes to bring greater room for improvement. LK1401 as the first version of the currency network, plans 3 - Release low-power optimized version LK1402 4 months, it is expected to reduce the power consumption of each T to 95W. "

https://www.bw.com/news/show-70-industry

 Unfortunately, by the time they actually got the LK1401 to market, the BM1385 was already around and is almost identical efficiency - despite being 28nm.
 I don't remember seeing specs on the Avalon 6 CHIP, it should be in that same ballpark as well.

 Apparently they're counting the BM1384 (Antminer S5, R1) and the Rockerbox (SP20E etc) as the "other previous generation 28nm" chips.

[RichBC]

Only time will tell, but having a 14nm chip in production, albeit similar in performance to the 28nm BM1385 does give them experience of real production 14nm. If the LK1402 Rev is successful it will be interesting to compare with the Bitmain BM1386 when it emerges.


Rich