[BitFunder] Ziggap Bitcoin Sales Service

[ZIGGAP]

Maybe I can clear things up and address some of the confusion.

This is aethero speaking, but not always aethero.

The company has never changed ownership.

It has been the same team of people all the way through. The confusion comes from attempting to keep the entity (ZIGGAP) and myself (aethero) separate from each other. This is a company forum account. I speak under it. Other members of the team speak under it. I am assuming responsibility of the loan myself financially so the company does not have to bear that burden. It will not affect dividends or the company books at all.

I think to help some of the confusion from now on posts will be signed by their respective authors.


-aethero

[Logik]

Could you please answer one more question: it says in the description

"Should the company be sold, the full amount of the purchase price will be evenly distributed amongst the 50,000,000 shares."

Now I understand that what I'm about to say may sound extremely cynical, but bear with me: what is to stop you reneging on this?

If the company was sold, then you guys are saying that you would distribute all the money from the sale (which is now your personal money) from the sale to the 50M 'profit shareholders', this is correct? Therefore this is a personal promise and not a promise from ZigGap? I'm not saying it's a bad thing but it needs to be clear that we're trusting the owners personally and not ZigGap.

[ZIGGAP]

Could you please answer one more question: it says in the description

"Should the company be sold, the full amount of the purchase price will be evenly distributed amongst the 50,000,000 shares."

Now I understand that what I'm about to say may sound extremely cynical, but bear with me: what is to stop you reneging on this?

If the company was sold, then you guys are saying that you would distribute all the money from the sale (which is now your personal money) from the sale to the 50M 'profit shareholders', this is correct? Therefore this is a personal promise and not a promise from ZigGap? I'm not saying it's a bad thing but it needs to be clear that we're trusting the owners personally and not ZigGap.

Technically speaking there is nothing to keep me from reneging on that, but I would like to point out a couple of things:

• I realize this wouldn't have been possible without fund raising assistance. There would be no company to sell without it. That will not be forgotten.
• If there was a way for me to legally enforce that promise, I would.
• It's not like I would be giving away everything. I plan to personally retain a substantial quantity of what is released on BitFunder
• If this organization were to be sold I would want to start another one related to Bitcoin. If I broke that promise who would ever trust me again?

I believe anyone who did their part in making this a reality is equally deserving of what comes out. That is a belief that will not change.

-aethero

[ahdinosaur]

^

I think to help some of the confusion from now on posts will be signed by their respective authors.

[wisard]

I had a couple of questions about profit booking.

Revenue is in USD. But dividend paying will be in BTC.
So...
Do you retain the profits in USD? Or convert it to BTC instantly?

[wisard]

Also, will ZigGap allow people to start selling their bitcoins too?
If so, its there any timeline for it?

[zx9r]

Two questions:


1. How many shares will be released in the next release (Wednesday 2/27/2013) ?

2. How many shares have been released till now ? I can read in the description 10.000.000 "Early-Bird" but dont know if more shared have been releseaded apart of those.

[BitcoinINV]

ZIGGAP still owes people on BTCJAM over 900 bitcoins.

Links? / OP care to comment on this?

The initial owner of ZIGGAP did take out that loan to start the company, however that loan was taken out by HIM and not by the company. The funds from this IPO are for the company, and not for him. Ergo the funds from this IPO are not going to be used to pay the loan.

So someone else started Ziggap and has now sold it - and you (new owners) didn't take on the loan?
How do we know you won't sell it again - and this time the next owners won't take on paying dividends to the shares?

Once a company has skipped on its commitments once it's hard to have confidence it won't do it again - especially when there's no record anywhere I can see of a change of ownership (i.e. for all we know the 'new' owners could be same as the 'old' ones - and the change of ownership just an excuse to default on the loan).  This really should have been explained in your OP - rather than dragged into the light by someone else later.

The same bitcoin-otc identity is being used on both the loan and in this IPO.

From BTCJAM:
Credentials
OTC: aethero
Forum: ZIGGAP

I hardly need to point out the sad history of bitcoin companies which get sold and then suffer a catastrophic failure. There is also the  action of handing over the user data to a new owner without informing the customers.

Looks like they sold all the IPO shares so it doesnt really matter but just from a few things Ive discovered here I would avoid using their site and/or investing in it. Theres too many red flags.

Nah, the company wasn't sold at all.  I got that impression from his talk of an "original owner" - as though there'd been a subsequent owner prior to the IPO.

But still amusing how he claims a loan defined as a business loan and taken out in the name of ZIGGAP was somehow a personal loan to one of the multiple individuals/team referred to in the loan description and discussion.

What seems to have happened is they tried raising funds via a loan on BTCJam, it wasn't selling out fast enough so they split it into two loans - one of which got filled.  They then abandoned trying to fill the second loan and did this IPO instead and are now trying to reclassify the loan as a personal loan.  Reclassing the loan as personal one makes little odds so long as it's paid - and with no assets declared for the company they can strip its existing wallets to repay it (which is why it's always a gamble investing in a company that doesn't produce ANY accounts whatsoever prior to IPO - you can quite easily be buying something with zero assets).

The rush to grab funds whilst giving minimal information is always a red flag to me.  Though it by no means always means scam - just means they want cash before people dig too deep or have the time (or information) to do proper math.

This was something that was brought up in the Btc-e chat room by some investors of the loan. They threw a couple coins in and seen the loan was about to close out and were promising them to other people. They then went and had the loan split in two so the first half would fund fully and then they could try to fill the 2nd half. People complained to Btcjam about it and they said it would not happen again. Deprived was right saying the loan never filled. Think it got a total of 10% before it closed out.
So who exactly is responsible for that loan?
If the company was sold why did the proceeds not go to paying off the loan?

[ZIGGAP]

Also, will ZigGap allow people to start selling their bitcoins too?
If so, its there any timeline for it?

We already have the code for this in place, it's just a matter of doing the proper legal research. Once we have properly written terms of service and sales agreements in place it's simply a matter of flipping a switch. So yes. Very soon (weeks) after the release.

Two questions:


1. How many shares will be released in the next release (Wednesday 2/27/2013) ?

2. How many shares have been released till now ? I can read in the description 10.000.000 "Early-Bird" but dont know if more shared have been releseaded apart of those.

The release will be 5 million.

Until now 10 million have been released.

[ZIGGAP]

The next release is TODAY at 3:00 PM CST (GMT -6).

This is in approximately 1.5 hours.

The amount has been confirmed at  .0001

[Anth0n]

What advantage does Ziggap offer over services like BitInstant and Coinbase?

[ZIGGAP]

What advantage does Ziggap offer over services like BitInstant and Coinbase?

There are several. Just off the top of my head:

• Rates   - We charge less than BitInstant
• Speed  - Right now there is a long waiting period for CoinBase
• Service - Do you know of another service which offers dedicated phone, live chat, and ticket support?

[Line]

[Choadzilla]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyNp8QhWiMm_EWkNSJRxexJen_QFidqSRGtUC1W7BUewD-AuYSVg

hehehe

[ZIGGAP]

I am proud to say the next 5 million units have all sold.

Due to some members of the community voicing their opinions of ZigGap's reputation, a decision was made to postpone the
release of the last 7.5 million shares until we feel the community has accepted ZigGap, and that we have further proven ourselves.

When the next 7.5 million share are released, they will probably be close to whatever the market rate at the time is.
We have seen from Satoshi Dice releases that selling at far below the market rate can be detrimental to the pricing
and the market.

-aethero

[Choadzilla]

I'm sure y'all will post it here far in advance as well

[Stephen Gornick]

Just to be clear ...

pieces of ZigGap on BitFunder do not represent real world shares of the company.

- https://bitfunder.com/asset/ZigGap

[zx9r]

I am proud to say the next 5 million units have all sold.

Due to some members of the community voicing their opinions of ZigGap's reputation, a decision was made to postpone the
release of the last 7.5 million shares until we feel the community has accepted ZigGap, and that we have further proven ourselves.

When the next 7.5 million share are released, they will probably be close to whatever the market rate at the time is.
We have seen from Satoshi Dice releases that selling at far below the market rate can be detrimental to the pricing
and the market.

Do you mean last 7.5 million or next 7.5 million ?

If I understood well there are still 50M - 10M (initial) - 5M (last) - 2.5M (reserved) = 32.5M shares left to release.

[ZIGGAP]

There was a mistake in numbers.

10m + 5m = 15m have been released to the public.

Another 22.5m (+15m = 32.5m) will be released to the public at a later date.

2.5m will be maintained by ZigGap for for for growth and maintenance purposes.

The remaining 15m is retained by employees as salaries.

-aethero

[zx9r]

There was a mistake in numbers.

10m + 5m = 15m have been released to the public.

Another 22.5m (+15m = 32.5m) will be released to the public at a later date.

2.5m will be maintained by ZigGap for for for growth and maintenance purposes.

The remaining 15m is retained by employees as salaries.

I see another mistake here: 22.5m + 15m = 37.5m (not 32.5m as you say)

So, not remaining 15m as salaries but only 10m

Also I didnt see before nothing about being retained 10m shares as salaries (is this first news ?)