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Author Topic: Official Gox / CoinLab Integration and Transition FAQ  (Read 20797 times)
Roy Badami
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March 07, 2013, 07:59:57 PM
 #141

I take it that currently the US would have no jurisdiction to seize assets from a Japanese company, in Japan, but if those assets are now held in the US, by a US company does that not open up that kind of situation?

To my understanding USD is always held in the US, banks in Japan or any other country have holdings accounts with US banks, so if you have a currency account in another country, the USD still are in the US, it only appears to you they're not.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=63



That's not strictly true, although it is the norm.

US dollar deposits held entirely outside the US have existed since the 60's and are called eurodollar deposits (regardless of whether they are actually physically located in Europe - although originally they invariably were).  They were basically created to satisfy the Soviet governement's desire, during the cold war, to hold US$ funds in the Western financial system but outside the reach of the US government.  These days eurodollar deposits are fairly routine (and similarly eurosterling deposit are sterling deposits held outside the UK, and euroeuro deposits (!) are Euro deposits held outside the EU.

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March 07, 2013, 10:43:16 PM
Last edit: March 08, 2013, 01:09:45 PM by jimbobway
 #142

Can I not accept the Coinlab ToS and keep my Mt. Gox account.  And then open another account at Coinlab, so I would have 2 accounts at the same time?
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March 08, 2013, 12:09:15 AM
 #143

Can I not accept the Coinlab ToS and kept my Mt. Gox account.  And then open another account at Coinlab, so I would have 2 accounts at the same time?
Sounds like people residing in USA and Canada cannot continue to have business relationship with MtGox. The deal is exclusive. There may be workarounds if you incorporate outside of North America (just guessing).
You can certainly close your MtGox account before March 22.

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March 08, 2013, 02:16:09 PM
 #144

I am in the U.S. but let's say I do swing trading and hold CADs for trading on BTC/CAD, EUR for the BTC/EUR market and AUD for the BTC/AUD market.  Will I still have those accounts after being transitioned to Coinlab? 

I just received a Deprecation Notice from Mt. Gox via e-mail:

Quote
You are currently making use of a system which will be deprecated on Wed 10 Apr 2013 12:00:00 AM GMT:

Generation of USD and CAD redeemable codes will not be possible due to legal issues

Please note that after this date, using this system won't be possible anymore and will instead lead to an error.

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?


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March 09, 2013, 02:44:48 AM
 #145

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?

I just got this answered on #mtgox IRC:

Quote
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

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March 09, 2013, 02:57:30 AM
 #146

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?

I just got this answered on #mtgox IRC:

Quote
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

Funny shit Grin No inter-currency arbitrage on Mtgox for you US guys.
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March 09, 2013, 05:24:37 AM
 #147

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?

I just got this answered on #mtgox IRC:

Quote
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

Funny shit Grin No inter-currency arbitrage on Mtgox for you US guys.

Weird, it is like the govt. hates its citizens or something ... drone strikes, bank account snooping, wiretaps, ....

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March 09, 2013, 05:54:46 AM
 #148

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?

I just got this answered on #mtgox IRC:

Quote
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

Funny shit Grin No inter-currency arbitrage on Mtgox for you US guys.

Weird, it is like the govt. hates its citizens or something ... drone strikes, bank account snooping, wiretaps, ....

"Land of the free" don't ya know?  "Home of the brave" too so they say.  Both are looking like more and more of a joke to me.

Actually countries of our size have a lot more to fear from it's own citizens than any other threat.  China is the same.  I read that they spend more on domestic security than on other forms of defense.  The US probably would also if we were not so involved in building and maintaining our empire presently.  But the focus that the US is putting into domestic defense recently is something to take note of.


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March 09, 2013, 05:56:24 AM
 #149

Does that mean I can still create and redeem a MTGEUR code after April 10th?

I just got this answered on #mtgox IRC:

Quote
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

Funny shit Grin No inter-currency arbitrage on Mtgox for you US guys.

Weird, it is like the govt. hates its citizens or something ... drone strikes, bank account snooping, wiretaps, ....

I may be wrong, but I have a little suspicion that it has more to do with Coinlab's bank accounts being only in USD/CAD and them not wanting, or their bank not having, accounts denominated in other currencies than with government interference.
AFAIK paypal doesn't limit the currencies US users can have balances in, so why would coinlab? Wink
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March 09, 2013, 01:04:23 PM
 #150

If someone could, as a U.S. citizen what are the pros and cons from this integration?

Cons:

No more redeemable currency codes?

From what I gather, there will be an initial delay for transferring funds via Dwolla - ultimately in the end will we still be able to use Dwolla?

What else?  I don't think government seizure of funds is realistic for the average user / trader.

Pros:

There will be a way for U.S. customers to directly link a bank account to the exchange?

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March 09, 2013, 02:19:10 PM
Last edit: March 10, 2013, 03:01:07 PM by malevolent
 #151

I would like to a little more attention to detail.  There are some errors on the Mt. Gox web site and on the mobile app.  Also, when I go to Coinlab and click on the market depth the web page is all screwed up and it has been that way.  There are also some obvious security features not present such as IP address restrictions.

I am not 100% sure but I think there are some IP addreess restrictions, that may trigger an AML/KYC/whatever-crap-people-come-up-with check if a proxy/vpn/Tor exit node IP is detected.

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March 11, 2013, 09:25:49 PM
 #152

Hi guys,

I'll update the head with salient bullets and we'll try and stay on top of questions as they come up in the thread as well.

Let me start about by saying some bloggers have one thing really wrong so far, I seriously respect Gox' hard work on security and uptime and anti-fraud. Most of you have no idea how hard this is, and how well Gox does. The kind of attacks they withstand, social engineering, technical, financial, legal are non-trivial. I don't expect that CoinLab can or should be set up to duplicate that effort; we wanted to team up together because we can offer something that I think will turn that baseline into lots of value for our whole community.

How Will It Work? I've gotten a bunch of questions about this -- APIs, deposit mechanisms, web interface, etc.

In brief, on March 22, nothing about your interactions will change. You'll log in to Gox, do your trading, and go home. You might notice some rebranding on the website. You'll see a different wire-to address for instructions.

Your USD will be in the states at that point, and you'll be able to send to our SVB account for deposits. More about the bitcoins below.

We'll also be using something like trade.coinlab.com as the mtgox interface, at launch. We will be rolling out more features on our site, (beta.trade.coinlab.com?) incrementally and aim at a nicely UI-designed easy to work with site. To do that we'll be instrumenting the Gox site at some point, and figuring out how you all use it. Right now our analytics are fine from a marketing point of view, but we need to get better at knowing how you all use the site, and how we can make it better.

I don't trust CoinLab's Bitcoin or Web Security One thing we're exploring right now internally is leaving the Bitcoins with Gox at launch, and moving them over once we're sure we've got a battle-hardened high transaction volume system in place. Gox is happy either way, so I'm interested in feedback on this. We have a highly secure (I think best in class) storage system we're about to roll out, but it trades rapid response for security, and that won't work for all Gox customers, for sure.

As Mark and others at Gox know, we have a lot of respect for the work they've done. I have no intention of hurting customers by yanking that work; instead, we want to layer on top of it.

Deposit Timeliness
This should improve, if your customer profile is low risk. At the very least, you will be able to deposit at a US bank, rather than wire to Japan. We're doing our first run-throughs of the system at SVB next week with a few early adopters, and that will lead to more details as to what you can expect, but we did take a deposit today and cleared it onto the trading account in 30 minutes, so that's nice!

Often customers who complain on bitcointalk about delays have triggered some risk system at Gox; I can't go into detail, but let me just say, there are many, many bad folks who want to use the exchange. Some of them happily take their complaints here without explaining that they are using, say, fake documents, or are lying about one thing or another.

I credit Gox with simultaneously wading through these folks and trying to give legit customers a good experience, especially because it can hurt reputation to see these folks in the forums, and of course, given the nature of risk management systems, Gox cannot explain publicly why Jane identity thief in Serbia is not allowed to use the system.

I'm hoping we'll be able to communicate better with new customers and existing ones to sort of settle people down if they're freaking out, and meantime get legit and longtime customer transactions through at high speed; I know that will help. It's tough to watch the price move and be delayed, and have it be working hours in the states, and midnight in Japan.

How will this transition effect withdrawal limits?
Good question. At launch it won't effect withdrawal limits. The history of withdrawal limits has to do with some FinCEN rules about transaction size. We've registered with FinCEN as a seller of prepaid access, they do not distinguish MSBs that sell prepaid access by transaction size, so I would hope we'll see our way clear to increasing these limits or doing away with them.

There's also a risk-mitigation factor -- we'll probably always have a human look at large transactions going out. Think of the different attacks over the last few years and how many would have had little impact if there were systems to block large wallet transfers.

How will this transition effect the verification process?
My hope is that it will drastically improve the process in terms of simplicity, ease of understanding, communication about the process and shortening of wait times. We've been batting around figuring out how to just do it on a video camera live, how awesome would that be?

How will this transition effect users [that] have already gone through the verification process with MtGox?
We are still spot auditing Gox' AML documents to make sure they are up to our promised standards. If they are, (and I have no indication they are anything but excellent), I would expect that users would stay at the same verification level you have now. TL;DR: Hopefully, once is enough. Smiley

Will this transition remove the ability to use Dwolla for withdrawals?
No. It is possible we'll have a small delay while we make sure we're comfortable with the Dwolla withdrawal API, we're still talking to the Dwolla folks right now. That said, we want to support Dwolla, and Dwolla wants to work with us, so I don't anticipate major changes. I agree that once you've got the accounts set up, the fees at Dwolla are rocking.

Is Peter Vessenes twitchy and high energy?
I think so. I'll ask employees for comments. Update General Response is "yes."

Did Mark sell my personal data to CoinLab without my $#!$ permission?
Quoting Mark: "MtGox did not sell users identities, and acted in the best interest of its users to ensure CoinLab had no access to said data.  None of users private information will be shared with CoinLab until the user accepts CoinLab's ToS on the site. If you choose to never accept CoinLab's ToS, then your data will never be shared with CoinLab."

Will My History be available post transition?
Yes, you'll still be able to log in and see all the same data.

More Coming
Our folks will start slotting in questions here, and I'll respond throughout the day; from here on out, I will try to not respond to other threads about the transition, and just keep everything here, so post away.
Thanks for all the support so far! We're all really excited.

Peter Vessenes
CEO, CoinLab

I must point out that is has been over a week since anyone from Coinlab has responded or posted on this thread. While I do understand the challenges and time constraints involved with launching this project, the silence on the part of Coinlab is starting to not inspire much confidence in this transition. I must add that the responses from MTGox on the other hand have been timely and appropriate.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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March 12, 2013, 02:48:25 AM
 #153

Gox is unusable again.

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March 12, 2013, 02:50:07 AM
 #154

Gox is unusable again.

couldnt agreed more, check out my thread on why you should stop using mtgox and remove all funds prior to the coinlab integration
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149935.0
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March 16, 2013, 06:06:07 PM
 #155

Hello,

I have two questions:

1) Will CoinLab subject their Bitcoin holdings to an audit?

2) Will CoinLab keep a 100% reserve on Bitcoin deposits?

As we know, MtGox primarily deals in off-block transactions, which is fine.  However, this takes away transparency.  If there were a run on MtGox, how can a user be assured their deposits will be available for withdrawal and have not been used as a margin account or equivalent.  Thanks.

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March 16, 2013, 09:47:51 PM
 #156

Still waiting for a response from Coinlab to my questions.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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March 17, 2013, 07:25:40 AM
 #157


Question for Coinlab:

If I obtain an account at SVB (which I am not yet sure is practical), would I be able to sell BTC for USD and collect the proceeds without sending high quality proof of identity to Coinlab?

The amounts we're talking about would be somewhat North of $10k initially, and over time it would depend on what happens in the market.

I am sensitive about sending high quality identity documents to small companies is why I ask.  Thus far I have avoided sending such documentation to Mt. Gox (or any other exchange) because I've not sold BTC in significant quantities.

I'll be in the Bay Area next week and it would be handy to get an answer to my question, or guestimate, in time to explore the possibilities further.


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March 20, 2013, 12:43:54 AM
Last edit: March 20, 2013, 03:17:49 AM by thoughtcourier
 #158

Question for either party (support ticket also in @ gox support)

I did not know the transition was so soon. My mtgox account is currently locked for 2 weeks due to losing my OTP. Can I transfer my coins out before Coinlab gets ahold of them?

This problem is getting increasingly annoying.


edit:
According to MagicalTux, the answer is that I will have a chance to move my coins out and then agree to the Coinlab ToS afterward. Crisis averted.
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March 20, 2013, 09:38:24 PM
 #159

I have a new mtgox account with no BTC bought.  If I buy BTC with USD on the 22nd (final transition date from Coinlab) will my money ever go overseas at all? Don't want to deal with the headache of registering an overseas account.
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March 23, 2013, 08:59:04 PM
 #160

I have a question.

What the fuck is it and how long we (traders with good liquidity and own professional tools) will tolerate zero-give-a-fuck behavior from Mt.Gox side?

Thanks you.
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