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Author Topic: [BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares  (Read 74566 times)
ThickAsThieves
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March 02, 2013, 06:19:05 PM
 #21

Is that 10BTC fee from Havelock current? I know that there are other brokers that have much lower fees, including at least one that does it for free if the order is large enough.

2 weeks is probably too long to leave people hanging for the dividends, especially for people who intend to re-invest.

Don't get me wrong, I still think your exchange is great in general, but these terms seem like they are leaning on investors a bit too much. I bet the first passthru on BitFunder will be more favorable, assuming that happens.
burnside (OP)
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March 02, 2013, 07:32:47 PM
Last edit: March 02, 2013, 08:13:13 PM by burnside
 #22

Is that 10BTC fee from Havelock current? I know that there are other brokers that have much lower fees, including at least one that does it for free if the order is large enough.

2 weeks is probably too long to leave people hanging for the dividends, especially for people who intend to re-invest.

Don't get me wrong, I still think your exchange is great in general, but these terms seem like they are leaning on investors a bit too much. I bet the first passthru on BitFunder will be more favorable, assuming that happens.

10 BTC is what it says in their contract.

I agree two weeks is too long under normal circumstances.  I expect in practice divs will go out within a day or two.  I'll update the contract text to reflect that.  I'll even throw in a clause waiving the 5% if it takes me more than 72 hours to pay the div.

Thank you, I really appreciate your input!

Edit/Add: Plugged the following in on the contract:

Quote
Dividend payments made more than 72 hours after their issuance from ASICMINER will be paid 100% of the original ASICMINER dividend.
thejestre
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March 02, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
 #23

I'm very interested in this.  Any ETA when I can buy some of these shares?  I'd hate to walk away, only to return and find all the IPO shares have been eaten up Wink.  Can I pre-order 20 IPO shares @ starting price?

Thanks,

_theJestre
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March 02, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
 #24

The best thing about this is casual investors will be able to buy a few shares without bothering friedcat and also trade them. However the markup is still hefty.
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March 03, 2013, 12:00:28 AM
 #25

when will the vote end? and when will the IPO first start selling?

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March 03, 2013, 12:14:15 AM
 #26

The best thing about this is casual investors will be able to buy a few shares without bothering friedcat and also trade them. However the markup is still hefty.

,65 seems to be the going rate right now, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=148282.msg1576569#msg1576569

i can't find less.
That's the "orderbook". I just locked into 100 shares @ 0.5
Monster Tent
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March 03, 2013, 05:39:52 AM
 #27

when will the vote end? and when will the IPO first start selling?

It already has 5 yes votes so trading should start as soon as burnside places some shares for sale.

burnside (OP)
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March 03, 2013, 08:10:46 AM
 #28

Great news!

Looks like it got approved while I was sleeping in today.

More great news!

I've already had interest from some ASICMINER shareholders in the program to trade in ASICMINER shares for ASICMINER-PT shares.  If you are interested in this, please PM me for my BTC address and other info to send to Friedcat to get things moved over.  I'll process the first transitions starting Monday March 11.

Even more great news!

It looks like we have a promising option to purchase another 1000 (possibly more) shares as well and this second batch of 1000 shares comes at a slightly lower price.  I will not sell the cheaper shares first, because in my opinion that would violate the trust of the initial holder that agreed to sell me the first batch, so here is my plan:

- If the first 1000 shares or less sell in the first week, we carry on as planned, and the IPO stops at 1000 shares.
- However, if we are able to sell the full 2000 shares in the first week, we will be able to refund the averaged difference of the purchase price of the 2000 shares, minus expenses and markup.  This will come in the form of a dividend of 0.02 BTC/share shortly following the sale of the 2000'th share.  This makes the effective IPO price 0.63 BTC/share if at least 2000 shares sell.  Just to be safe, I have to add the stipulation that if, for any reason, the purchase of the second 1000 shares does not go through, then I will simply have to refund the purchasers of the second 1000 shares and there will be no immediate dividend.

I hope that all makes sense.  Let me know if any of it needs clarification.

We'll put our 2000 share IPO ask order up around 7 PM UTC on Monday March 4th for 0.65 BTC/share.

Cheers.
Zedster
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March 03, 2013, 09:52:31 AM
 #29

Ok my newbness abounds here. 

I can see people have already put up bids.  Are these bids valid and any bid of 0.65 BTC will get shares as long as there is supply or will this list reset at 7 PM GMT?
poly
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March 03, 2013, 10:17:27 AM
 #30

Ok my newbness abounds here. 

I can see people have already put up bids.  Are these bids valid and any bid of 0.65 BTC will get shares as long as there is supply or will this list reset at 7 PM GMT?
It won't reset - if you already have bits at 0.65 then you'll buy it as soon as it comes online. If there are greater demand, then those that pays the most will be filled first.

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Zedster
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March 03, 2013, 10:24:44 AM
 #31

Ok my newbness abounds here. 

I can see people have already put up bids.  Are these bids valid and any bid of 0.65 BTC will get shares as long as there is supply or will this list reset at 7 PM GMT?
It won't reset - if you already have bits at 0.65 then you'll buy it as soon as it comes online. If there are greater demand, then those that pays the most will be filled first.

Thanks, this was my assumption.  But we know what assumptions do so I wanted to be sure.
poly
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March 03, 2013, 10:42:57 AM
 #32

Ok my newbness abounds here. 

I can see people have already put up bids.  Are these bids valid and any bid of 0.65 BTC will get shares as long as there is supply or will this list reset at 7 PM GMT?
It won't reset - if you already have bits at 0.65 then you'll buy it as soon as it comes online. If there are greater demand, then those that pays the most will be filled first.

Thanks, this was my assumption.  But we know what assumptions do so I wanted to be sure.
You're welcome - glad to have helped :)

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burnside (OP)
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March 03, 2013, 08:58:17 PM
 #33

Had a great chat with someone via PM today.  We will waive the 0.5 BTC fee on shares brought into ASICMINER-PT for transfers of over 50 shares.  Smiley

Cheers!
btcash
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March 04, 2013, 08:42:41 AM
 #34

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I'll process the first transitions starting Monday March 11.
Why wait a week? DeadandTerra is ready now and has no fees.
burnside (OP)
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March 04, 2013, 09:09:17 AM
 #35

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I'll process the first transitions starting Monday March 11.
Why wait a week? DeadandTerra is ready now and has no fees.

I didn't anticipate the quick reaction from DeaDTerra and Bitfunder.  I've been trying for a couple of weeks to get someone to put together an ASICMINER-PT and as soon as I did they had one up in less than 24 hrs to match.  heh.

The delay was because I anticipated being busy this week with the IPO.  (and another feature I'm working on, but have not announced yet.)

I'm pretty sure we'll have to match DeaDTerra's offer of no fees on the transfers.  We may also have to get more competitive on the dividend percentages, but I can't run it with zero percent income.  I need to make at least minimum wage on time spent.  Wink

Regarding the rest of the "no fees" situation, it was somewhat misleading.  You pay a much higher transaction fee at BitFunder (5x higher if you're the seller, which you would be if you're trying to move shares to the exchange to sell) and based on DeaDTerra's recent post, there was mention of using the transaction fees or some other kickbacks to pay DeaDTerra.  I can't (won't) do that on BTC-TC, so I'm out of luck there.

I also noticed that the big ask wall today of 800-900+ shares at 0.65 disappeared (only 80 actually traded?) and is now 2,422 at 0.70, so for buyers in the IPO on BTC-TC you'll be getting a better deal up front.  Hopefully this will also lead to a better market for sellers wanting to transition over.

Cheers.

btcash
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March 04, 2013, 09:15:48 AM
 #36

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I'm pretty sure we'll have to match DeaDTerra's offer of no fees on the transfers.  We may also have to get more competitive on the dividend percentages, but I can't run it with zero percent income.  I need to make at least minimum wage on time spent.  Wink
What about the markup? ASICMINE shares a currently traded between 0.5-0.6.
Even with only 7% markup (buy 0.6; sell 0.65) you would earn around 3000$.
burnside (OP)
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March 04, 2013, 09:42:54 AM
 #37

Quote
I'm pretty sure we'll have to match DeaDTerra's offer of no fees on the transfers.  We may also have to get more competitive on the dividend percentages, but I can't run it with zero percent income.  I need to make at least minimum wage on time spent.  Wink
What about the markup? ASICMINE shares a currently traded between 0.5-0.6.
Even with only 7% markup (buy 0.6; sell 0.65) you would earn around 3000$.

I hate to say it, but if you consider the asset creation fee and the premium in my call option, I didn't get them at 0.6.  I'm not going to give exact numbers, but total cost is closer to 0.65 than it is to 0.6 and I still have the risk that they won't all sell and my up-front costs will end up being a loss.  (hopefully that's a small risk, but I've been wrong plenty of times before.)

I've seen some sales go for less than that in the auctions threads, but I was unable to find sellers that were willing to commit to the 30-day call option I needed to get things jump started and my personal share count (100) would have been laughed off the market.  Wink

Cheers.
Ukyo
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March 04, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
 #38

based on DeaDTerra's recent post, there was mention of using the transaction fees or some other kickbacks to pay DeaDTerra.

I don't have much time at the moment, so a more proper answer will be given later today.
No I am not getting a direct profit from this PT,
It's a favor to Jon (BF owner) for helping me out in the past.
We discussed a potential payment from Jon, in the case where the PT trades larger volumes,
Other then that I am doing it for free.

I have talked to Friedcat, he's aware of what I am doing and what my intention are.
He has said that he has no problem with the PT as long as he only has responsibility to the direct share holders aka Me,
And I then in return have a responsibility to the indirect share holders aka any share holder or G.ASICMINER-PT.

The shares are indeed transferred over to me and then a equal amount of shares are created and sent to that person.
So I have not sold any of GBF shares, nor any of my own.
It's simply a pass through to enable people to sell and buy shares.
//DeaDTerra

As you can see, deadterra stated that should the asset become a burden, a thank you payment (and honestly no amount was ever discussed or promised) MAY be offered as a thank you for agreeing to the management of an asset to help the community.
When we began the discussion of creating an ASCIMINER pass-through to assist shareholders due to the lack of an exchange, we both decided that the main focus was to offer a method of trade without concerns of fees to nickle and dime them to use it, so that more users would feel comfortable doing such and relying less on friedcat to have to constantly manage transfers.

So as it stands, there are currently no "kickbacks" of any amount promised in regards to BitFunder.
You are simply reading more into it than there is.

I see no issue with a PT wanting to have a dividends fee on what is expected to be one of the highest paying assets.
Although I think transfer fees may be a bit overkill when coupled with that fee, but that is my opinion.
I am not sure how I feel about the exchange operator managing assets. This is an issue I currently argue with myself over.
If you are buying the shares, i.e. they are your shares to sell, you should be allowed to sell at whatever price you want.
You are only competing with other users who might transfer shares shares in.
Though, your delay on including transferred shares until March 11th does help that a bit.
If you are using 'investor' funds to buy shares and not your own, you probably should sell them at face value without loss unless the exact profit amounts were provided to the investors beforehand.
That though, depends on proof of cost. Smiley
Zedster
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March 04, 2013, 02:00:27 PM
 #39

Bitfunder is already trading and at a higher price?  Am i understanding what am I am seeing correctly.  Sorry for the newbness.
Ukyo
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March 04, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
 #40

Bitfunder is already trading and at a higher price?  Am i understanding what am I am seeing correctly.  Sorry for the newbness.

Prices on BitFunder are determined by asicminer holders who have already transferred shared in shares.
They are the ones posting asks.
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