[BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares

[burnside]

Then if the dividend is low everyone gets screwed.  Didn't seem very fair.

Cheers.

So if the dividend is low when you have fewer shares, then people get more screwed?
i.e. if the dividend is low, and your taking 5% Vs. the dividend being low and you taking 0.5% for greater shares.

That does not seem very fair. The more people refuse to join due to whatever, the more the current holders get screwed. right?

Apparently you are concerned about the dividend payout amount. If we add that to the equation then perhaps the % should be based on dividend ranges instead?

Maybe I misunderstood something somewhere.  It wouldn't be a first.

You asked why I didn't do a fixed maintenance fee.  I didn't because then if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through.

Leaving it percentage based, even when there is a very small dividend, guarantees the shareholders still get the majority of it.

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[Ukyo]

Then if the dividend is low everyone gets screwed.  Didn't seem very fair.

Cheers.

So if the dividend is low when you have fewer shares, then people get more screwed?
i.e. if the dividend is low, and your taking 5% Vs. the dividend being low and you taking 0.5% for greater shares.

That does not seem very fair. The more people refuse to join due to whatever, the more the current holders get screwed. right?

Apparently you are concerned about the dividend payout amount. If we add that to the equation then perhaps the % should be based on dividend ranges instead?

Maybe I misunderstood something somewhere.  It wouldn't be a first.

You asked why I didn't do a fixed maintenance fee.  I didn't because then if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through.

Leaving it percentage based, even when there is a very small dividend, guarantees the shareholders still get the majority of it.

Ahh gotchya. Thanks for that.

[Zedster]

if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through

But this will not happen so it is a non-issue. 

[burnside]

if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through

But this will not happen so it is a non-issue. 

I definitely hope so!

[Deprived]

if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through

But this will not happen so it is a non-issue. 

In the short-term it won't - but there may be occasions when there's need to retain profits (for example to fund next-gen ASICs or to fund building retail products).  ASICMINER isn't some shitty mining bond that pays out dividends whilst it values decline - the plan is very clearly to grow the company and profits.  And if that means foregoing dividends at times, so be it.

[Zedster]

if ASICMINER doesn't pay out a dividend large enough to cover the maintenance fee, there wouldn't be anything left to pass through

But this will not happen so it is a non-issue.  

In the short-term it won't - but there may be occasions when there's need to retain profits (for example to fund next-gen ASICs or to fund building retail products).  ASICMINER isn't some shitty mining bond that pays out dividends whilst it values decline - the plan is very clearly to grow the company and profits.  And if that means foregoing dividends at times, so be it.

I think those situations would also come up for a vote so once again non issue and also hopefully to be expected.

[burnside]

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.

According to Friedcat, the exchange is coming and according to the BitFunder G.ASICMINER-PT, it's free maintenance because they are most likely expecting to only run it until Friedcat's exchange is up and running.

So what we'll do is offer free maintenance on the first three months.  That way if it really is temporary, then there will be no maintenance fee.  If it ends up being long term, then there's a little something still for the operators time.

This has the added benefit of giving us time to get to the 10,000 share tier, where the maintenance fee is half a percent.  (dividend X 0.005)

I'll write up a contract modification and submit a motion.

Cheers.

[ThickAsThieves]

What happens to the dividends for any shares that might not be sold yet?

[ThickAsThieves]

I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.

According to Friedcat, the exchange is coming and according to the BitFunder G.ASICMINER-PT, it's free maintenance because they are expecting to only run it until Friedcat's exchange is up and running.

So what we'll do is offer free maintenance on the first three months.  That way if it really is temporary, then there will be no maintenance fee.  If it ends up being long term, then there's a little something still for the operators time.

This has the added benefit of giving us time to get to the 10,000 share tier, where the maintenance fee is half a percent.  (dividend X 0.005)

I'll write up a contract modification and submit a motion.

Cheers.

Where did you hear that the BF passthru is temporary? Ukto never said anything like that afaik...?

[burnside]

What happens to the dividends for any shares that might not be sold yet?

Since I'm using a call option to jumpstart this passthru, the dividends belong to the shareholder that sold me the option up until I exercise.  I have been exercising at regular intervals as shares are sold, such that every shareholder in the passthru is guaranteed their dividends.

Where did you hear that the BF passthru is temporary? Ukto never said anything like that afaik...?

The goal was to give people a place to trade asicminer until a permanent exchange is setup and they can choose to move them without charge.

The motion for the contract change is up at: https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

Cheers.

[Ukyo]

Where did you hear that the BF passthru is temporary? Ukto never said anything like that afaik...?

The goal was to give people a place to trade asicminer until a permanent exchange is setup and they can choose to move them without charge.

The motion for the contract change is up at: https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

Cheers.

"and they can choose to move them without charge."

[burnside]

Where did you hear that the BF passthru is temporary? Ukto never said anything like that afaik...?

The goal was to give people a place to trade asicminer until a permanent exchange is setup and they can choose to move them without charge.

The motion for the contract change is up at: https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

Cheers.

"and they can choose to move them without charge."

Right.  That's what I said.  

Ahhh... I get it.

Fixed my previous post.

[zx9r]

I'm going for sure to buy a batch of ASICMINER shares. I didn't buy before because I saw there are still a lot of shares available both at Bitfunder and BTCT so I have plenty of time to make a decission and don't choose the "wrong" exchanger. I'd like to say that given the conditions in both xchangers I didn't see any advantage in using BTCT instead of BF as it is obvious.

But that said, in case of equal conditions I will choose BTCT because of balancing my stock assets, and also because I think that BTCT has globaly less volume and I think that is good for the community to balance it. Just wanted to let you know 

[Ukyo]

I'm going for sure to buy a batch of ASICMINER shares. I didn't buy before because I saw there are still a lot of shares available both at Bitfunder and BTCT so I have plenty of time to make a decission and don't choose the "wrong" exchanger. I'd like to say that given the conditions in both xchangers I didn't see any advantage in using BTCT instead of BF as it is obvious.

But that said, in case of equal conditions I will choose BTCT because of balancing my stock assets, and also because I think that BTCT has globaly less volume and I think that is good for the community to balance it. Just wanted to let you know 

Agreed, both exchanges benefit from similar PT's as it encourages arb trading.

[burnside]

I'm going for sure to buy a batch of ASICMINER shares. I didn't buy before because I saw there are still a lot of shares available both at Bitfunder and BTCT so I have plenty of time to make a decission and don't choose the "wrong" exchanger. I'd like to say that given the conditions in both xchangers I didn't see any advantage in using BTCT instead of BF as it is obvious.

But that said, in case of equal conditions I will choose BTCT because of balancing my stock assets, and also because I think that BTCT has globaly less volume and I think that is good for the community to balance it. Just wanted to let you know  

I appreciate your input, thank you!

Doing a quick off the top of my head exchange comparison I guess isn't too OT given the question of where to go:

There are numerous benefits to btct.co, some more subtle than others.  The most obvious are probably the lower tx fees and moderation system for approvals.  I haven't found on BF where I can download full account history, btct.co has it available as CSV's.  I'm not sure about where BF is with their API, but I am certain we went the right direction with open JSON for market info and OAuth for trading.  (you could run your own personal trading site on it.)  On btct.co all your trades, notifications, dividends, withdrawals, motions, etc, you can get a copy via email.  (this, imho is essential to good security)  On btct.co you can use Yubikey for 2-Factor, in addition to google authenticator.  BF doesn't seem to do 2-Factor on trades.  Edit/Add: On the btct.co side; motions, full prospectus support, and public portfolio support.  (for when you need to prove you hold something)

I love BF's scalable graphs and paginated trade history.  The look and feel of everything is very clean.  I have mixed feelings about the weexchange requirement for deposits and withdrawals.  (not going to critique it here.)  Ukto is very committed to the platform and has shown good development aptitude.  The future is definitely bright for BF.  My biggest concern is going to be that it's one guy making the call for what gets approved and what does not.  This is not a claim that quality is better one side or the other.  Just that at my core, I believe that two (or more) heads are better than one.  The btct.co moderation system definitely could be improved upon.  Edit/Add: The BF ticketing system is also really nice.  I like that you can see your tickets on the site, btct.co does not have a built-in ticketing system.

I have confidence that both platforms will succeed though because each is unique in distinctive ways.  

Of course, I've tried to be objective here, but it's very hard.    I definitely encourage investors to check out all their available options!

[zx9r]

In my opinion I think that BOTH sites are great, you guys are doing a great job !!

Of course there are things to get better, but I know you will do it, it is only a matter of time.

[puck2]

How will holders of ASICMINER-PT receive dividends?

[burnside]

Dividend paid of 0.01916298 per share.

Quick reminder; there will be an additional dividend on or before next Monday of around 0.01 to 0.015 if all 1000 shares sell.  We're definitely on pace to hit that target!

Cheers.

[burnside]

How will holders of ASICMINER-PT receive dividends?

It should just show up in your account if you hold shares. 

[puck2]

How will holders of ASICMINER-PT receive dividends?

It should just show up in your account if you hold shares. 

Cool... I bought shares today... I wonder when the cutoff is? Shares purchased at 2013-03-06 12:13:29