Chain-Bet.com | On Chain | No KYC | 15x Win | Provably Fair | Since 2016

[Ewox]

How has this game been paying? I'd like to try this out, seems like a pretty decent provably fair game to me.

[RHavar]

I'm not sure that the advertising is terribly honest.

The processing fee you charge is rather high, based on running a casino it costs me a little under 500 satoshis per deposit to process (as I consolidate outputs when it's cheap), while your processing fee is 40000 satoshis. Which would be an entirely entirely reasonable processing fee for a winning bet, as sending a transaction fast is quite expensive. However, the tricksy part is that you take the processing fee before you apply the multiplier, which means the player is effectively paying that 15 times!

So based on the costs I believe the break even point would be charging ~2421 satoshis per bet in processing fees  (assuming efficient utxo consolidation). Which means you have an expected profit of around $0.46 USD per bet.



So while I understand it's a business, and your goal is to make money -- I think by claiming to be 0% house edge and not making it clear you make a flat profit on each bet is bit ifffy.

[Jimmy Wales]

How has this game been paying? I'd like to try this out, seems like a pretty decent provably fair game to me.

I cant say that it is paying high or paying low. But, it is paying as expected. I have listed some the BIG winnings on Chain-Bet.com here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1635955.0

[jems]

How has this game been paying? I'd like to try this out, seems like a pretty decent provably fair game to me.

I cant say that it is paying high or paying low. But, it is paying as expected. I have listed some the BIG winnings on Chain-Bet.com here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1635955.0

I love your site, the whole site is quite interesting. It's just the lack of support for doing a communication against the owners in the event of a problem. And the lack of features that can be used to interact against a fellow player/owner of the site. I hope it can be added for convenience all players

i would like to try this game i guest its interesting and i read other comments in here and they say good about your site that is pretty nice .

[Bitcoin Gambling]

I'm not sure that the advertising is terribly honest.

Our claim of 0% house edge is pretty honest indeed. Explanation given below...

The processing fee you charge is rather high, based on running a casino it costs me a little under 500 satoshis per deposit to process (as I consolidate outputs when it's cheap), while your processing fee is 40000 satoshis. Which would be an entirely entirely reasonable processing fee for a winning bet, as sending a transaction fast is quite expensive. However, the tricksy part is that you take the processing fee before you apply the multiplier, which means the player is effectively paying that 15 times!

Could u please show a recent Tx of yours, i.e. in April, 2017, where cost per Tx i/p is 500 Satoshi?

So based on the costs I believe the break even point would be charging ~2421 satoshis per bet in processing fees  (assuming efficient utxo consolidation). Which means you have an expected profit of around $0.46 USD per bet.

I'm not sure how u have derived the figure 2421 Satoshi, but here is how I have calculated...
Total Tx processing fee per bet = 40000 Satoshi
Forwarding Tx cost for each bet = 25000 Satoshi (you may verify it from any of our recent bet, i.e. since we increased our Tx processing fee)
Remaining to process each bet to create a winning Tx = (40000-25000) Satoshi = 15000 Satoshi

Now, let us look at how much it has cost per Tx i/p to send a recent winning Tx, i.e. https://blockchain.info/tx/c96a28919b23476c54c248da5fbe80c38108358d5295f221d8c9fc1c66e3b8ff
Total mining fee paid = 424410 Satoshi
Total no. of Tx i/p = 15
Therefore, actual cost per Tx i/p = (424410/15) Satoshi = 28294 Satoshi

So while I understand it's a business, and your goal is to make money -- I think by claiming to be 0% house edge and not making it clear you make a flat profit on each bet is bit ifffy.

With the calculation given above with real world data, it must be clear to everyone that instead of making any flat profit, we have actually accepted (28294-15000) Satoshi, i.e. 13294 Satoshi, flat loss per bet.

[Ewox]

How has this game been paying? I'd like to try this out, seems like a pretty decent provably fair game to me.

I cant say that it is paying high or paying low. But, it is paying as expected. I have listed some the BIG winnings on Chain-Bet.com here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1635955.0

Thanks for letting me know. Well at least its paying, that's what I really wanted to know. Oh and for your BIG winning on your thread, pretty lucky but I'm sure despite all those winnings, you have lost a lot right? Anyways, will try my luck on that game too. Cheers and good luck to your future games on this gambling site!

[RichDaniel]

If you have 0% house edge, how can you profit and how much can you profit per month? I am very curious because your site is 0% house edge.

[RHavar]

Could u please show a recent Tx of yours, i.e. in April, 2017, where cost per Tx i/p is 500 Satoshi?

https://anduck.net/bitcoin/fees/

You'll see routinely 1-3 times per week, transactions with a feerate of 5 byte/sat can clear.

With the calculation given above with real world data, it must be clear to everyone that instead of making any flat profit, we have actually accepted (28294-15000) Satoshi, i.e. 13294 Satoshi, flat loss per bet.

This doesn't make much sense. Why you even running the site if you're taking a flat loss per bet? And all you need to do is write some utxo consolidation logic, and you'd be making a decent profit per bet.

[soul-impact]

If you have 0% house edge, how can you profit and how much can you profit per month? I am very curious because your site is 0% house edge.

Perhaps their profit depends entirely on the luck of each player. However, I think this is not really feasible. In my opinion, somehow, their algorithms were a bit skewed, which made their odds of winning higher, and profit easier. However, it is just my opposite inference, I do not accuse anyone. Please test yourself by joining their site.

[Albert Hamilton]

Due to increase in average cost of confirming a Bitcoin transaction, we are hereby increasing transaction processing fee from 0.0002 BTC to 0.0004 BTC. We understand, this might impact small bet amounts, but to ensure faster processing of bet forwarding Tx and winning amount sending Tx, we had no other way. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

https://twitter.com/Chain_Bet_/status/854662731085078528

This move may turn off gamblers betting less than 0.001 BTC. Otherwise, it is good for us as bet processing has become pretty fast now.

I don’t think so it is just a 0.0002 increase after all, I mean it is not per bet increase neither just a transaction fee increase. Considering 0.0002 is just 25 cents it is not that much to consider when you are gambling. If you are worrying about a 25 cent increase than you shouldn’t be gambling anyway.

Actually it depends on the bet amount of the gambler. For a bet amount less than 0.001 BTC, a 0.0004 BTC flat deduction is huge. But, for high rollers, it does not matter, because they are enjoying the 0% house edge, which is a privilege they wont get anywhere else. I can foresee that in future chain-bet.com may turn into a temple for high rollers.

[RHavar]

Actually it depends on the bet amount of the gambler. For a bet amount less than 0.001 BTC, a 0.0004 BTC flat deduction is huge. But, for high rollers, it does not matter, because they are enjoying the 0% house edge, which is a privilege they wont get anywhere else. I can foresee that in future chain-bet.com may turn into a temple for high rollers.

Just for everyone too lazy to do the maths, if you are betting > 0.04 BTC per bet, this site offers better odds. If you're betting less than that, you're better off playing a traditional 1% casino.


Although personally I'd be too skeptical to play here. The site is trivial for a miner to profitably (and undetectably) cheat...   (and even more so for a mining pool, which can cheat it's miners at the same time if they have to discard a block)

[Albert Hamilton]

Just for everyone too lazy to do the maths, if you are betting > 0.04 BTC per bet, this site offers better odds.

That's why I said...

I can foresee that in future chain-bet.com may turn into a temple for high rollers.

If you're betting less than that, you're better off playing a traditional 1% casino.

Not really. There are gamblers like me, who'll always prefer risk free on-chain gambling over risky traditional casinos, where site wallet deposit is mandatory.

Although personally I'd be too skeptical to play here. The site is trivial for a miner to profitably (and undetectably) cheat...   (and even more so for a mining pool, which can cheat it's miners at the same time if they have to discard a block)

The very concept of miners can cheat profitably this game was debunked long ago. Check this thread for further info - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493510.0.

[soul-impact]

Due to increase in average cost of confirming a Bitcoin transaction, we are hereby increasing transaction processing fee from 0.0002 BTC to 0.0004 BTC. We understand, this might impact small bet amounts, but to ensure faster processing of bet forwarding Tx and winning amount sending Tx, we had no other way. Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

https://twitter.com/Chain_Bet_/status/854662731085078528

This move may turn off gamblers betting less than 0.001 BTC. Otherwise, it is good for us as bet processing has become pretty fast now.

I don’t think so it is just a 0.0002 increase after all, I mean it is not per bet increase neither just a transaction fee increase. Considering 0.0002 is just 25 cents it is not that much to consider when you are gambling. If you are worrying about a 25 cent increase than you shouldn’t be gambling anyway.

Actually it depends on the bet amount of the gambler. For a bet amount less than 0.001 BTC, a 0.0004 BTC flat deduction is huge. But, for high rollers, it does not matter, because they are enjoying the 0% house edge, which is a privilege they wont get anywhere else. I can foresee that in future chain-bet.com may turn into a temple for high rollers.

Although I do not really believe what you say, however, in part, I feel you are right, 0% next door can not be profitable, so, somehow, they have way to collect Profits from players, algorithms are not the only decision, but it is also a good reason. However, this is just an unfounded inference, do not assert anything about them.

[DarkStar_]

If you're betting less than that, you're better off playing a traditional 1% casino.

Not really. There are gamblers like me, who'll always prefer risk free on-chain gambling over risky traditional casinos, where site wallet deposit is mandatory.

It's not close to risk free, and offers only slightly lower risk than another BTC casino with off-chain gambling that has the exact same reputation. Both of them you have to deal with the site disappearing, or withdraws not being sent. The only plus (which is very little) is that the time your funds are held on Chain-Bet is generally less.

Although personally I'd be too skeptical to play here. The site is trivial for a miner to profitably (and undetectably) cheat...   (and even more so for a mining pool, which can cheat it's miners at the same time if they have to discard a block)

The very concept of miners can cheat profitably this game was debunked long ago. Check this thread for further info - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493510.0.

That thread didn't debunk anything - it just said that miners can't pick the block hash. However, they can still no broadcast blocks that contain a losing hash, and hope to get a winning hash. A bad actor pool might make a large bet on every character except one with a very low (possibly 0) fee. They can than use bitcoind to treat their tx as a 100 BTC fee transaction, so it would be added into the next block the pool finds. They can set it so the pool owner needs to check the block before it's broadcast to the network, and if it is a losing hash, they can chose to withhold the block (screwing the miners, but letting them be more likely to win).

[adaseb]

If you're betting less than that, you're better off playing a traditional 1% casino.

Not really. There are gamblers like me, who'll always prefer risk free on-chain gambling over risky traditional casinos, where site wallet deposit is mandatory.

It's not close to risk free, and offers only slightly lower risk than another BTC casino with off-chain gambling that has the exact same reputation. Both of them you have to deal with the site disappearing, or withdraws not being sent. The only plus (which is very little) is that the time your funds are held on Chain-Bet is generally less.

Although personally I'd be too skeptical to play here. The site is trivial for a miner to profitably (and undetectably) cheat...   (and even more so for a mining pool, which can cheat it's miners at the same time if they have to discard a block)

The very concept of miners can cheat profitably this game was debunked long ago. Check this thread for further info - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493510.0.

That thread didn't debunk anything - it just said that miners can't pick the block hash. However, they can still no broadcast blocks that contain a losing hash, and hope to get a winning hash. A bad actor pool might make a large bet on every character except one with a very low (possibly 0) fee. They can than use bitcoind to treat their tx as a 100 BTC fee transaction, so it would be added into the next block the pool finds. They can set it so the pool owner needs to check the block before it's broadcast to the network, and if it is a losing hash, they can chose to withhold the block (screwing the miners, but letting them be more likely to win).

This might be possible but unless this site grows and allows max bets of > 100BTC I don't see anyone trying to cheat this way.

It would be very risky for the pool to perform this and they might end up losing a block as a result of this.

[paul gatt]

If you have 0% house edge, how can you profit and how much can you profit per month? I am very curious because your site is 0% house edge.

Perhaps their profit depends entirely on the luck of each player. However, I think this is not really feasible. In my opinion, somehow, their algorithms were a bit skewed, which made their odds of winning higher, and profit easier. However, it is just my opposite inference, I do not accuse anyone. Please test yourself by joining their site.

Are you saying that their algorithms have problems? No, I suppose you were wrong. Every casino is always looking for and ensuring fairness. So, this casino really depends on luck, extremely fair on both sides. I think people can rest assured when joining this casino. This is an unfounded statement, it's like an allegation.

[runz]

I am wondering, if I would place a bet of 0.04 BTC at your site and lets say I win. What happens in this case, since the funds of your sites wallet is only 0.42 BTC?

[RHavar]

It would be very risky for the pool to perform this and they might end up losing a block as a result of this.

They would only lose the block, if it was profitable to do so. If they win the bet,  they would face only a tiny extra cost of losing a block (likely slightly slower block propagation, due to mining a few extra transactions that the network wouldn't have seen)

And keep in mind that for a shady pool to withhold a valid block might not actually cost them very much at all. This is because they can cheat their miners, and just act like it was bad luck that caused them to have not mined a block in a while.

---

(Although in practice it's not really a concern. For someone to exploit them, they would likely have to risk 15 bitcoin (With the hope of winning 1). I doubt anyone is ever going to do that, as the chance of them not getting paid would be too high)

[RocketSingh]

I am wondering, if I would place a bet of 0.04 BTC at your site and lets say I win. What happens in this case, since the funds of your sites wallet is only 0.42 BTC?

Why do u think there is only one address in the site wallet? Fund may spread across multiple addresses in the same wallet...

[milewilda]

I am wondering, if I would place a bet of 0.04 BTC at your site and lets say I win. What happens in this case, since the funds of your sites wallet is only 0.42 BTC?

Why do u think there is only one address in the site wallet? Fund may spread across multiple addresses in the same wallet...

Maybe he does always think that a certain gambling sites do only have a single wallet which is not right at all and its not really a good move if they would tend to do such thing.Having multiple wallets on a certain gambling site is normal and including this site is no exception.Why wont bother not to be paid? If you hit and win then site will pay you no matter what as long they have the money,theres no problem at all.