Stateless societies and bitcoin

[AlgoSwan]

Do you think that BTC is designed for stateless societies?

We all know that almost all world governments use paper money to maintain its power. They are controlling inflation and deflation cycles by just printing more fiat.

So, will BTC really survive in an environment where all the world governments survivability depends on paper money?

[Evildrum]

That was the goal but take a look at this forum and how monetary value drives most discussion in the context of investment. For some reason the new wave of people would rather hand bitcoin over to be regulated so they can profit and get out.
To answer your question I believe it was designed that way and should have progressed to that ideology.
The rebuttal will be that bitcoin is open and therefore whatever direction it goes is the way it goes.
But I think we have plenty of interest groups hijacking what could have been a good shakeup to the system.

It came at a time when the world is about to step into a new stage of regulate and stifle.
These trade agreements will strip us down and most likely restrict movement,so enjoy the last days of what we call freedom.

[tsaroz]

That was the goal but take a look at this forum and how monetary value drives most discussion in the context of investment. For some reason the new wave of people would rather hand bitcoin over to be regulated so they can profit and get out.
To answer your question I believe it was designed that way and should have progressed to that ideology.
The rebuttal will be that bitcoin is open and therefore whatever direction it goes is the way it goes.
But I think we have plenty of interest groups hijacking what could have been a good shakeup to the system.

It came at a time when the world is about to step into a new stage of regulate and stifle.
These trade agreements will strip us down and most likely restrict movement,so enjoy the last days of what we call freedom.

I don't agree with this. Bitcoin is a prime example of people thinking out of box. Bitcoin seems to have both positive and negative impression on society. People long ago and for many times predicted the death of bitcoin but it still exist today. If ever bitcoins totally fail, The fight between regulation and freedom will exist.

[Evildrum]

That was the goal but take a look at this forum and how monetary value drives most discussion in the context of investment. For some reason the new wave of people would rather hand bitcoin over to be regulated so they can profit and get out.
To answer your question I believe it was designed that way and should have progressed to that ideology.
The rebuttal will be that bitcoin is open and therefore whatever direction it goes is the way it goes.
But I think we have plenty of interest groups hijacking what could have been a good shakeup to the system.

It came at a time when the world is about to step into a new stage of regulate and stifle.
These trade agreements will strip us down and most likely restrict movement,so enjoy the last days of what we call freedom.

I don't agree with this. Bitcoin is a prime example of people thinking out of box. Bitcoin seems to have both positive and negative impression on society. People long ago and for many times predicted the death of bitcoin but it still exist today. If ever bitcoins totally fail, The fight between regulation and freedom will exist.

You do not agree with the current perception I have of people in bitcoin to profit over societal change?
Take a look at what is driving this forum,loans,signatures,escrow,gambling,account sales and investment based products. Compared to how many posts to live off the grid,be self sufficient,live without banks or even counter views on keeping bitcoin unregulated!
Its very clear the way it is going,at least on this forum that profit drives bitcoin rather than world wide change.

[stonefree]

I don't agree with this. Bitcoin is a prime example of people thinking out of box. Bitcoin seems to have both positive and negative impression on society. People long ago and for many times predicted the death of bitcoin but it still exist today. If ever bitcoins totally fail, The fight between regulation and freedom will exist.

I agree with this.

The biggest, and maybe the only reason, why we aren't more advanced (any field) as a race is (so called) regulations .
In that you can include - power, greed, etc.

bitcoin and its system is actually completely opposite, giving general public a lot of benefits.

Also the biggest reason why similar system/currency/whatever is not implemented in a big ass country is .... government is not getting paid! uncle sam is not getting his share.

[AlgoSwan]

Take a look at what is driving this forum,loans,signatures,escrow,gambling,account sales and investment based products. Compared to how many posts to live off the grid,be self sufficient,live without banks or even counter views on keeping bitcoin unregulated!
Its very clear the way it is going,at least on this forum that profit drives bitcoin rather than world wide change.

Good point. Majority of the BTC users think BTC as a profit machine. But it is not. Together with the NMC it is designed for a big world wide change. At this point NMC is almost dead, and BTC has many rivals a.k.a alt coins. Who knows? Maybe some freedom fighter take all these BTC and start a very big movement without governments if not already. One thing I'm quite sure BTC is not designed for societies who allow governments take full control of all people living in this lovely planet called Earth.

[BADecker]

Come on. The majority of the people in the world want a government... a state.

They are trying to be like a wife with her husband. They say to the government, "You be the government, but do it our way."

[AlgoSwan]

Come on. The majority of the people in the world want a government... a state.

They are trying to be like a wife with her husband. They say to the government, "You be the government, but do it our way."

When did you last time checkout Voter Turnout Stats worldwide?

[BADecker]

Come on. The majority of the people in the world want a government... a state.

They are trying to be like a wife with her husband. They say to the government, "You be the government, but do it our way."

When did you last time checkout Voter Turnout Stats worldwide?

Are you really asking if people pay taxes?   

[AlgoSwan]

Come on. The majority of the people in the world want a government... a state.

They are trying to be like a wife with her husband. They say to the government, "You be the government, but do it our way."

When did you last time checkout Voter Turnout Stats worldwide?

Are you really asking if people pay taxes?   

Voter turnout is the percentage of eligible voters who cast a ballot in an election.  After increasing for many decades, there has been a trend of decreasing voter turnout in most established democracies since the 1980s. So ask yourself again: do majority of the people in the world want a government?

[BADecker]

Come on. The majority of the people in the world want a government... a state.

They are trying to be like a wife with her husband. They say to the government, "You be the government, but do it our way."

When did you last time checkout Voter Turnout Stats worldwide?

Are you really asking if people pay taxes?   

Voter turnout is the percentage of eligible voters who cast a ballot in an election.  After increasing for many decades, there has been a trend of decreasing voter turnout in most established democracies since the 1980s. So ask yourself again: do majority of the people in the world want a government?

The only thing that gives a government strength is taxation. If people didn't want government, they would stop paying taxes.

[AlgoSwan]

The only thing that gives a government strength is taxation. If people didn't want government, they would stop paying taxes.

If you don't pay your taxes, you go to the jail. This is why people pay it. It wasn't about that they want government. They don't want to go to jail. That's it.

[BADecker]

The only thing that gives a government strength is taxation. If people didn't want government, they would stop paying taxes.

If you don't pay your taxes, you go to the jail. This is why people pay it. It wasn't about that they want government. They don't want to go to jail. That's it.

I'm guessing that this is why they don't vote. They somehow can't ever seem to vote taxes away.

Thank Goodness that in the U.S. you can fill out your Form W-4 n/a (non-assumpsit) EXEMPT, and stop paying. If you file any tax return, you would do the same in all the places where numbers are required. It works. I do it (the W-4. I don't file tax forms.). Non-assumpsit, Signature.

[AlgoSwan]

The only thing that gives a government strength is taxation. If people didn't want government, they would stop paying taxes.

If you don't pay your taxes, you go to the jail. This is why people pay it. It wasn't about that they want government. They don't want to go to jail. That's it.

I'm guessing that this is why they don't vote. They somehow can't ever seem to vote taxes away.

Thank Goodness that in the U.S. you can fill out your Form W-4 n/a (non-assumpsit) EXEMPT, and stop paying. If you file any tax return, you would do the same in all the places where numbers are required. It works. I do it (the W-4. I don't file tax forms.). Non-assumpsit, Signature.

You're joking, right? Why the all people still paying taxes if such an option exist for them?

[BADecker]

The only thing that gives a government strength is taxation. If people didn't want government, they would stop paying taxes.

If you don't pay your taxes, you go to the jail. This is why people pay it. It wasn't about that they want government. They don't want to go to jail. That's it.

I'm guessing that this is why they don't vote. They somehow can't ever seem to vote taxes away.

Thank Goodness that in the U.S. you can fill out your Form W-4 n/a (non-assumpsit) EXEMPT, and stop paying. If you file any tax return, you would do the same in all the places where numbers are required. It works. I do it (the W-4. I don't file tax forms.). Non-assumpsit, Signature.

You're joking, right? Why the all people still paying taxes if such an option exist for them?

I'm not joking. The people don't know how to handle the law. That's all there is to it.

It's as simple as this. If the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA or THE IRS takes you to court, you can require that the plaintiff get on the stand and show the harm or damage you did to him/her. Neither the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA nor THE IRS can take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and say anything. You win, plus damages if you "require" them in the right way. This is basic law in America. People used to know this, but it has been hidden from most nowadays.

Perhaps you like your job. Perhaps you are not working for the money you earn. But if you are after the money, you can earn more off the the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA or THE IRS than you can make in a lifetime of jobs by doing this. Same for Canada, Britain, and Australia.

Google and Youtube search on "Karl Lentz, common law." Also, check Richard Cornforth at http://voidjudgments.com/.

[countryfree]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

[Evildrum]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

I see you say this and I always wonder what the plan is for old age?
Not bashing the life style just curious how that will work out in the long run.

[virtualx]

Do you think that BTC is designed for stateless societies?

We all know that almost all world governments use paper money to maintain its power. They are controlling inflation and deflation cycles by just printing more fiat.

So, will BTC really survive in an environment where all the world governments survivability depends on paper money?

I am not sure what you mean by a stateless society, could you specify your question?

BTC is designed for places that have access to electricity.
The miners also require dedicated hardware.
A middle man is not required for transactions

[AlgoSwan]

I am not sure what you mean by a stateless society, could you specify your question?

Man is born naked into the world, and needing to use his mind to learn how to take the resources given him by nature, and to transform them (for example, by investment in “capital”) into shapes and forms and places where the resources can be used for the satisfaction of his wants and the advancement of his standard of living. The only way by which man can do this is by the use of his mind and energy to transform resources (“production”) and to exchange these products for products created by others. Man has found that, through the process of voluntary, mutual exchange, the productivity and hence, the living standards of all participants in exchange may increase enormously. The only “natural” course for man to survive and to attain wealth, therefore, is by using his mind and energy to engage in the production-and-exchange process. He does this, first, by finding natural resources, and then by transforming them (by “mixing his labor” with them, as Locke puts it), to make them his individual property, and then by exchanging this property for the similarly obtained property of others. The social path dictated by the requirements of man’s nature, therefore, is the path of “property rights” and the “free market” of gift or exchange of such rights. Through this path, men have learned how to avoid the “jungle” methods of fighting over scarce resources so that A can only acquire them at the expense of B and, instead, to multiply those resources enormously in peaceful and harmonious production and exchange.

The great German sociologist Franz Oppenheimer pointed out that there are two mutually exclusive ways of acquiring wealth; one, the above way of production and exchange, he called the “ economic means.” The other way is simpler in that it does not require productivity; it is the way of seizure of another’s goods or services by the use of force and violence. This is the method of one-sided confiscation, of theft of the property of others. This is the method which Oppenheimer termed “the political means” to wealth. It should be clear that the peaceful use of reason and energy in production is the “natural” path for man: the means for his survival and prosperity on this earth. It should be equally clear that the coercive, exploitative means is contrary to natural law; it is parasitic, for instead of adding to production, it subtracts from it. The “political means” siphons production off to a parasitic and destructive individual or group; and this siphoning not only subtracts from the number producing, but also lowers the producer’s incentive to produce beyond his own subsistence. In the long run, the robber destroys his own subsistence by dwindling or eliminating the source of his own supply. But not only that; even in the short-run, the predator is acting contrary to his own true nature as a man.

We are now in a position to answer more fully the question: what is the State? The State, in the words of Oppenheimer, is the “organization of the political means”; it is the systematization of the predatory process over a given territory. For crime, at best, is sporadic and uncertain; the parasitism is ephemeral, and the coercive, parasitic lifeline may be cut off at any time by the resistance of the victims. The State provides a legal, orderly, systematic channel for the predation of private property; it renders certain, secure, and relatively “peaceful” the lifeline of the parasitic caste in society.Since production must always precede predation, the free market is anterior to the State. The State has never been created by a “social contract”; it has always been born in conquest and exploitation.

[Betwrong]

It's difficult to imagine a stateless society, but there are plenty of stateless people. Guys like me who have left their native country, with no plan to go back, and no desire to become a citizen in any other place. BTC is made for us.

Great words! I wish I can be a stateless person one time. That's giving you a very good feeling of freedom I guess.

Although most of us are not stateless people at least we have stateless money.  )