Goldman Sachs could toast us.

[hitchhiker]

After watching the general panic selling tonight one thing seems really clear - we are vulnerable as hell to the influence of giants like G.S.

They can buy cheap, dump high, catch it back at the bottom.. and they're experienced, they know how to do this over and over.

They can cause enough volatility that none of us will feel safe, the newbies will panic, the prices will sway around, no stability will cause colossal reputation problems with this fledgling currency.

Am I wrong here? This is David vs Golliath, except David is a newborn baby in this story.

[hdcafe]

BTC has the basic value, that is, mining cost. 

Recent price is going up because the mining difficulty doubled.

[the joint]

After watching the general panic selling tonight one thing seems really clear - we are vulnerable as hell to the influence of giants like G.S.

They can buy cheap, dump high, catch it back at the bottom.. and they're experienced, they know how to do this over and over.

They can cause enough volatility that none of us will feel safe, the newbies will panic, the prices will sway around, no stability will cause colossal reputation problems with this fledgling currency.

Am I wrong here? This is David vs Golliath, except David is a newborn baby in this story.

Put a buy in for 10,000 BTC at .01 USD on Gox, then you're covered.  And yeah, a billionaire could *temporarily* screw the market if he wanted to, but the most important thing to remember is this -- Mt. Gox is NOT the same as Bitcoin.

[Gab1159]

GS had nothing to do with the flashcrash today...I'm thinking Goxlag has something to do with it...

[hitchhiker]

GS had nothing to do with the flashcrash today...I'm thinking Goxlag has something to do with it...

Ofc, not what I'm saying, it was just the general response was: PAANNIICCCC - it's over! Not a good indicator when a lot of (biggish) trades are done by beginners..

[hitchhiker]

Mt. Gox is NOT the same as Bitcoin.

Again, forget Mt. Gox (wow did they fall over tonight) - I'm mean to say: Nobody 'normal' will feel safe investing in a currency that's so vulnerable to volatility..

For the record: I don't give a damn, I'm sticking with this for the long run, better or worse.

[Severian]

I'd wanna know what butthead is selling bitcoins to GS.

[hitchhiker]

this guy: http://www.zitogallery.com/userfiles/image/yuppie80s.jpg

[gradient vector]

Mt. Gox is NOT the same as Bitcoin.

Again, forget Mt. Gox (wow did they fall over tonight) - I'm mean to say: Nobody 'normal' will feel safe investing in a currency that's so vulnerable to volatility..

For the record: I don't give a damn, I'm sticking with this for the long run, better or worse.

Depends on what you define as investing. Some users will probably use Bitcoin in short time frames without much exposure to currency risk. Gambling, for example. Such use will add more liquidity to the system in the long run.

[Severian]

this guy: http://www.zitogallery.com/userfiles/image/yuppie80s.jpg

I can't stand that asshole.

[the joint]

Mt. Gox is NOT the same as Bitcoin.

Again, forget Mt. Gox (wow did they fall over tonight) - I'm mean to say: Nobody 'normal' will feel safe investing in a currency that's so vulnerable to volatility..

For the record: I don't give a damn, I'm sticking with this for the long run, better or worse.

Volatility isn't an issue when there's a general up-trend.  Look at Bitcoin's history to date - the safest move so far would have been to buy early and hold indefinitely.  Gold has functioned similarly over the past 10 years and has been quite volatile itself having experienced 10% swings in days and 30% swings in weeks/months.  It's interesting to note that although the value of gold has been referred to as "volatile," it is often described as such in relation to the dollar rather than on its own accord (i.e. the value of gold is determined relative to the "volatile" price of the US dollar).

[notbrain]

After watching the general panic selling tonight one thing seems really clear - we are vulnerable as hell to the influence of giants like G.S.

They can buy cheap, dump high, catch it back at the bottom.. and they're experienced, they know how to do this over and over.

They can cause enough volatility that none of us will feel safe, the newbies will panic, the prices will sway around, no stability will cause colossal reputation problems with this fledgling currency.

Am I wrong here? This is David vs Golliath, except David is a newborn baby in this story.

I don't know about you but I don't feel "safe" keeping my money in dollars and dollar-backed assets either. BTC, land, and gold are my go-tos. We are heading towards a dollar crisis very soon, especially if another bailout is needed while the Fed is in no position to render assistance and is basically insolvent. All it will take is a crisis where some country needs to sell dollars to get their own currency back. And when the dollar is no longer 60% of world reserves it will be a new playing field.

All markets are vulnerable to panic. And bots. And natural disasters. And egos. Etc. Traditional markets have rules and shut down to prevent runaway losses. We'll get there with BTC too. Smart investors don't put all their eggs in one basket. Panic selling of BTC is a buying opportunity IMO.

[brekyrself]

I don't know about you but I don't feel "safe" keeping my money in dollars and dollar-backed assets either. BTC, land, and gold are my go-tos. We are heading towards a dollar crisis very soon, especially if another bailout is needed while the Fed is in no position to render assistance and is basically insolvent. All it will take is a crisis where some country needs to sell dollars to get their own currency back. And when the dollar is no longer 60% of world reserves it will be a new playing field.

All markets are vulnerable to panic. And bots. And natural disasters. And egos. Etc. Traditional markets have rules and shut down to prevent runaway losses. We'll get there with BTC too. Smart investors don't put all their eggs in one basket. Panic selling of BTC is a buying opportunity IMO.

This.  It will also take time (more acceptance of btc) to reduce its volatility.

[Slackware1995]

I don't know about you but I don't feel "safe" keeping my money in dollars and dollar-backed assets either. BTC, land, and gold are my go-tos. We are heading towards a dollar crisis very soon, especially if another bailout is needed while the Fed is in no position to render assistance and is basically insolvent. All it will take is a crisis where some country needs to sell dollars to get their own currency back. And when the dollar is no longer 60% of world reserves it will be a new playing field.

All markets are vulnerable to panic. And bots. And natural disasters. And egos. Etc. Traditional markets have rules and shut down to prevent runaway losses. We'll get there with BTC too. Smart investors don't put all their eggs in one basket. Panic selling of BTC is a buying opportunity IMO.

This.  It will also take time (more acceptance of btc) to reduce its volatility.

How can a private corporation that creates money from thin air be insolvent?

[hitchhiker]

Traditional markets have rules and shut down to prevent runaway losses. We'll get there with BTC too. Smart investors don't put all their eggs in one basket. Panic selling of BTC is a buying opportunity IMO.

All very true (eggs/basket - buying op)

We *might* need safeguards, to *some* degree built into the model. Can that be coded in before someone else burns us through sheer market saturation force? I can't shake the feeling the big guys are sitting around planning how to topple the kids.

[desired_username]

I don't know about you but I don't feel "safe" keeping my money in dollars and dollar-backed assets either. BTC, land, and gold are my go-tos. We are heading towards a dollar crisis very soon, especially if another bailout is needed while the Fed is in no position to render assistance and is basically insolvent. All it will take is a crisis where some country needs to sell dollars to get their own currency back. And when the dollar is no longer 60% of world reserves it will be a new playing field.

All markets are vulnerable to panic. And bots. And natural disasters. And egos. Etc. Traditional markets have rules and shut down to prevent runaway losses. We'll get there with BTC too. Smart investors don't put all their eggs in one basket. Panic selling of BTC is a buying opportunity IMO.

My thoughts are quite similar to yours.

If one examines gold for example it looks good from a 5-10year perspective only. It cannot be compared 1:1 to BTC though. Bitcoin is still in it's infant days and is way different than any other currency/stock/etc which existed so far. (source: http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XAU&to=EUR&view=5Y)

As far as I can see, everyone tries to use patterns and mechanisms experienced in other fields (forex, PM trading, etc) which might not be overall compatible with BTC.
 

[eveisk]

After watching the general panic selling tonight one thing seems really clear - we are vulnerable as hell to the influence of giants like G.S.

You sound like *everysilverforum*.com - and you're probably right 

[Monster Tent]

I'd wanna know what butthead is selling bitcoins to GS.

Coinlab 

[only]

In a couple of years we will own GS.

[lassdas]

BTC has the basic value, that is, mining cost. 

Recent price is going up because the mining difficulty doubled.

BTC has value because it's useful, non-miners don't care about mining costs
and the price is driven by supply and demand, not mining costs, or difficulty.

I'd wanna know what butthead is selling bitcoins to GS.

It's new to me that you can decide on a marketplace like MtGox who you want to sell to.
The only choice you have is to either sell, or not, but how do you even know who's buying?