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iamnotback
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June 14, 2016, 07:37:44 PM |
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Barry Silbert says: Although Silbert is excited about Ethereum, he does not agree with the vision held by some of Ethereum’s most-ardent supporters. He explained:
“I sense there’s a certain utopian view of society, which I may or may not agree with philosophically, that I just don’t see from a real-world application perspective happening anytime soon.”
Silbert went on to explain that a world where there is no regulation, lawyers, contracts, or SEC rules is not going to exist in the near future. He then clarified, “It may solve some problems. The idea of a decentralized autonomous organization, it’s super interesting.”
Silbert also noted that many of the earliest applications built on Ethereum are related to gambling, Ponzi schemes, or pyramid schemes, but he also admitted that this isn’t necessarily a problem. He added, “That’s OK because that’s an interesting way to experiment; it’s certainly what happened with Bitcoin.”
What Does the World Need from Ethereum?
One of the main criticisms of Ethereum up to this point has been the lack of useful applications that solve real-world problems. On a recent episode of Unconfirmed Transactions, host Dan Anderson and Wall Street veteran Tone Vays described how Ethereum supporters were unable to provide any use cases for the project to them at a recent meetup in New York.
During his panel appearance on day one of Consensus 2016, Silbert seemed sympathetic to the idea that practical applications of Ethereum are yet to be found. He stated: “I don’t think the world needs a decentralized Uber, which is one project. I don’t think the world needs a decentralized AirBnb, which is another project.”
Having said that, it’s important to remember that Ethereum is a platform on which a developer is essentially given the power to build any decentralized application they wish. It’s possible the best use cases of Ethereum have simply not been thought of at this point.
During his final comments on DAOs, Silbert questioned the role these decentralized organizations can play in the real world. He concluded:
“These DAOs that are raising money from the masses with — basically it’s a blank check. It’s a pool of capital that’s going to be deployed in a way that I think will be very democratic. I’m skeptical because I don’t know the role it needs to play in society. I don’t know, in the capital formation process, what’s wrong with our current system that it’s solving for. I’m philosophically supportive. I hope it’s successful, but I don’t see the problem it’s solving yet.”
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spartak_t (OP)
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June 14, 2016, 10:01:13 PM |
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Only time and action will tell what actually happens here - and a click bait title like DAO FAIL is clear on what your true intentions are before even reading through the thread.
You should carefully read what I have later said. I strongly support that part of the Silbert's statement: During his final comments on DAOs, Silbert questioned the role these decentralized organizations can play in the real world. He concluded:
“These DAOs that are raising money from the masses with — basically it’s a blank check. It’s a pool of capital that’s going to be deployed in a way that I think will be very democratic. I’m skeptical because I don’t know the role it needs to play in society. I don’t know, in the capital formation process, what’s wrong with our current system that it’s solving for. I’m philosophically supportive. I hope it’s successful, but I don’t see the problem it’s solving yet.”
That is why I've said that if Bill Gates or Warren Buffet (for example) decides to throw over $200Mn in a cryptocurrency/token/asset, I'm all in! No matter if they FAIL at some point, because I will at least know that they thought very carefully before releasing it. DAO's took over $200Mn from the "masses" and now it turned out that they have problemS (not only one). You can't just take $200Mn from the people, without doing vast amount of researches on your product (though I admit again that I didn't make any deep researches on ETH or DAO)! This could kill all the crypto! This is my problem! I'm not a troll and I'm not against ETH/DAO. Whats better for crypto in general, its better for everybody. |
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Hueristic
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June 14, 2016, 11:54:40 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested. |
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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iamnotback
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June 15, 2016, 09:30:46 AM
Last edit: June 15, 2016, 09:58:20 AM by iamnotback |
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You can't just take $200Mn from the people, without doing vast amount of researches on your product
That insouciance is what happens when you put Millennials in control. Barry Silbert says: Although Silbert is excited about Ethereum, he does not agree with the vision held by some of Ethereum’s most-ardent supporters. He explained:
“I sense there’s a certain utopian view of society, which I may or may not agree with philosophically, that I just don’t see from a real-world application perspective happening anytime soon.”
I have a new theory that the altcoin speculation market is largely stratified by generational differences (in addition to for example cultural differences between Europeans and Americans for example). On one end of the spectrum, we have Millennials (Z generation) who were raised spoiled by their middle-age boomer parents, and thus have this sort of unrealistic cartoonish or "everything is a game" (and take money from the rich like we did to our parents) outlook similar to how Vitalik described himself: Buterin won’t commit to a full explanation of why he became interested in Bitcoin on the second go around. He had recently quit playing World of Warcraft, and perhaps he was just looking for the next obsession to take its place, he says. But he does admit to having a dualistic worldview that faulted centralized powers with many of society’s sins.
“I had a much more cartoon mentality,” he says as he squeezes a lemon wedge into his green tea, then begins looping the string on the teabag incessantly around the handle of his mug. “I saw everything to do with either government regulation or corporate control as just being plain evil. And I assumed that people in those institutions were kind of like Mr. Burns, sitting behind their desks saying, ‘Excellent. How can I screw a thousand people over this time.’”
In this way, his worldview was harmonious with the vast majority of Bitcoin early adopters who fully expected the technology to operate as a stealthy foil for the status quo. And though he says he has substantially updated his binary assessment of good and evil, Buterin is still motivated by a conviction that the powerful have far too much power.
“I think a large part of the consequence is necessarily going to be disempowering some of these centralized players to some extent,” he says. “Because ultimately power is a zero sum game. And if you talk about empowering the little guy, as much as you want to couch it in flowery terminology that makes it sound fluffy and good, you are necessarily disempowering the big guy. And personally I say screw the big guy. They have enough money already.”
Just older than them are the Tweeners (Y generation) such as Daniel Larimer who were born in between the neglected X generation and the spoiled Z generation, thus they have a confused identity with some mix of wannabee Libertarianism like us GenXers but needing the pillow of increasing collectivism/socialism under which they were raised. I am GenX. We were abandoned by our parents and the socialism wasn't very well developed yet in the 1970s and 1980s when we were growing up. So we had to fend for ourselves and thus are very pragmatic. ...
What Steemit is trying to do is collectivize our funds amongst the entire social network, then redistribute our funds based on who receives the most valid up voting.
Sorry but people don't want to join a social network to have their funds taken from them (for all those who are average) and redistributed to those who are above average.
Dan Larimer is a smart guy but in my opinion has always been (since I first debated him in BCT in 2013 about his plan to pay every token HODLer a dividend) a socialist/collectivist in a faux Libertarian skin. And that is why in my opinion all his designs have failed to achieve greatness.
Here are more recent examples I've experienced when interfacing with these irresponsible youth: It is about you failing to respond to any of my technical points and wanting to just ignore the reality.
You don't want to have substantive debate with an expert.
Seems you are offended by something. I asked you what is 'rancid' in the other thread I linked to which had expressed some of the same logic as your OP, and you said the threads smell like fish. That isn't a very substantive response. You are all fluff. How about focusing in on the issues instead. I raised many issues and you seem to not be interested even though they are directly related to your OP.
Any way, I don't care. Enjoy what ever you are doing with this thread.
The reason I mentioned ego is in response to your statement, " With such "Technical superiority" your modesty is astounding.". I asked you to be aware of my knowledge set and not brush off my comments nonchalantly. You got offended by my lack of modesty.
It seems you don't comprehend the seriousness of the situation facing the world right now. When you are stuck in a 666 enslavement system some years from now, it will be too late to get your freedom back.
I have been working night and day for many years to prevent that from happening. You made an OP that seemed to recognize that Bitcoin is in dilemma. I am making you aware that it was designed to be in that dilemma. Because it is designed to enslave the world.
I have studied the consensus design and even explained that Satoshi didn't solve the Byzantine Generals Problem. I have studied the SegWit and other changes being made to Bitcoin. There is a pattern to all of this.
Your technical expertise are appreciated elsewhere this was a logical discussion about Bitcoin and only Bitcoin's future. Not the future of the whole world. Bitcoin can't be fixed. The issue that your OP explains in insoluble. You can only hope to replace it. Bitcoin will be scaled up centralized. And it will enslave the world. Period. That is the answer. I offered another option, but you don't want to discuss it. So end of thread. The centralized Bitcoin won't be 51% attacked bcz those controlling it will have the 666 control system they designed Bitcoin to accomplish. In the transitionary phase now, the Chinese miners will be handed lots of wealth as the process of centralizing mining proceeds. We can't say every Chinese miner today knows he is part of the ultimate plan. We can't even say the Blockstream devs know they are part of some diabolical plan. They are just trying to fix a design that can't be fixed without restarting from scratch. Compartmentalization is the modus operandi of the DEEP STATE. This is a process. The DEEP STATE that designed Bitcoin has a plan over years. Our other hope is the system blows up technically. But that is why Blockstream is receiving so much funding, because they probably have the expertise to centralize Bitcoin sufficiently whil still being able to give some illusion of decentralization for sufficient time that Bitcoin maximalists fall into the trap, of which SegWit is a major step in that direction. In all honesty the Vcash project moves fast. It's only a year and half old and has evolved quite a bit since genesis. Because of Johns rapid pace of development on the Vcash project we (the community) are consistently trying to play ketchup understanding his technology and architecture. It's a learning process for us and much as it is for you. We are only human. Unfortunately the very people like Fuserleer who could take a deeper look into John's code is unwilling. So what more to discuss? His mind is made up already who are we to tell him he's wrong?
I pity you n00bs. Sincerely good luck. Welcome back TPTB. I thank you for your sincerity but I don't really need your pity. I have every confidence in John Conner's work because he actually developing and pushing real software. He doesn't just talk, he does. In my n00bie opinion that's what matters most. Talk is cheap because action speaks louder than words. Action. Like the 1000 shitcoins that came before and died. And Vcash is apparently not entirely launched yet. Yes you are welcome to hump any random garbage can along the side of the road. That is a form of action. Again I pity you. Vcash is in beta sure but damn guy you don't have be to rude. Sure we have different views no need to get hostile and start insulting others for it. I am not intending to be any more rude than the rudeness of your insinuation that I have not done action. How is for example this action by myself not action? Action is a nebulous term. That is what I am explaining to you by example. I am also explaining you are quite blind to the action that others are doing. A single-minded focus on the random tree stump in front of you, is what a dog does. |
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Hueristic
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June 15, 2016, 04:49:52 PM |
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...I am GenX. We were abandoned by our parents and the socialism wasn't very well developed yet in the 1970s and 1980s when we were growing up. So we had to fend for ourselves and thus are very pragmatic....
True but also (in the US at least) 40% of my paycheck was taxed my entire life and I was assured that was for my retirement so our generation expects to have some services when we retire or become injured. I also contributed 8% to a 401k as well which is needed if you expect to live near or above the poverty level when you retire (proof of the pragmatism). |
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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spartak_t (OP)
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June 15, 2016, 05:14:38 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested.Maybe, but it could also get "other people" interested in to ban just about everything. There are many people who thinks that cryptocurrencies are beating the banks (for example), and they are enthusiastically "singing" POWER TO THE PEOPLE, but the truth is that governents, banks and big companies are already exploring Bitcoin and such. They don't need Bitcoin, Ethereum or something else, which is part of our "cryptoworld". Do you think that they don't have the funds and the power to make something similar (or even better) than Bitcoin, Ethereum, or... whatever?  How do you think you will react if you deposit $200Mn in a bank and get a response: "Thank you sir, but keep in mind that there is a chance for you to be robbed.". FUCK NO! What I am trying to say with my not so rich english is that if you invest in a ICO and the initiator runs away with 10 BTC... that's a problem. But when you have gathered $200Mn from the "masses" and there are so important security flaws... that's a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. Then these "other people" have another BIG excuse to get involved and guess what may happen next? |
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Hueristic
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June 15, 2016, 10:29:43 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested.Maybe, but it could also get "other people" interested in to ban just about everything. There are many people who thinks that cryptocurrencies are beating the banks (for example), and they are enthusiastically "singing" POWER TO THE PEOPLE, but the truth is that governents, banks and big companies are already exploring Bitcoin and such. They don't need Bitcoin, Ethereum or something else, which is part of our "cryptoworld". Do you think that they don't have the funds and the power to make something similar (or even better) than Bitcoin, Ethereum, or... whatever? How do you think you will react if you deposit $200Mn in a bank and get a response: "Thank you sir, but keep in mind that there is a chance for you to be robbed.". FUCK NO! What I am trying to say with my not so rich english is that if you invest in a ICO and the initiator runs away with 10 BTC... that's a problem. But when you have gathered $200Mn from the "masses" and there are so important security flaws... that's a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. Then these "other people" have another BIG excuse to get involved and guess what may happen next? I think we have alot of ideas that agree but I am not quite grasping your post here. Even though you tried to encapsulate it. Lol |
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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iamnotback
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June 16, 2016, 10:26:46 AM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested. But when you have gathered $200Mn from the "masses" and there are so important security flaws... that's a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM. Then these "other people" have another BIG excuse to get involved and guess what may happen next?
It is all part of the game. The ecosystem is the game. I think Heuristic was correct: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1505886.msg15233191#msg15233191 |
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iamnotback
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June 17, 2016, 03:28:21 PM |
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His point is that is all part of the game. It is actually good for crypto. Our ecosystem learns and grows stronger. This is the way decentralized nature anneals fitness. |
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spartak_t (OP)
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June 17, 2016, 03:31:15 PM |
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His point is that is all part of the game. It is actually good for crypto. Our ecosystem learns and grows stronger.
This is the way decentralized nature anneals fitness.
I know what he meant, but I'm not sure if he understand why I did started this thread and my point here. It is part of the game, but its not good for crypto. |
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Biodom
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June 17, 2016, 04:27:46 PM |
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Only time and action will tell what actually happens here - and a click bait title like DAO FAIL is clear on what your true intentions are before even reading through the thread.
You should carefully read what I have later said. I strongly support that part of the Silbert's statement: During his final comments on DAOs, Silbert questioned the role these decentralized organizations can play in the real world. He concluded:
“These DAOs that are raising money from the masses with — basically it’s a blank check. It’s a pool of capital that’s going to be deployed in a way that I think will be very democratic. I’m skeptical because I don’t know the role it needs to play in society. I don’t know, in the capital formation process, what’s wrong with our current system that it’s solving for. I’m philosophically supportive. I hope it’s successful, but I don’t see the problem it’s solving yet.”
That is why I've said that if Bill Gates or Warren Buffet (for example) decides to throw over $200Mn in a cryptocurrency/token/asset, I'm all in! No matter if they FAIL at some point, because I will at least know that they thought very carefully before releasing it. DAO's took over $200Mn from the "masses" and now it turned out that they have problemS (not only one). You can't just take $200Mn from the people, without doing vast amount of researches on your product (though I admit again that I didn't make any deep researches on ETH or DAO)! This could kill all the crypto! This is my problem! I'm not a troll and I'm not against ETH/DAO. Whats better for crypto in general, its better for everybody. Silbert? he he-he needs to explain why his bitcoin derivative (GBTC) is trading at almost 2X NAV. Nothing wrong there, no, sireee. |
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Biodom
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June 17, 2016, 04:30:53 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested. I agree and ALL bitcoin was almost zeroed at least once due to a major software error. EDIT: in 2010 |
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philipma1957
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'The right to privacy matters'
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June 17, 2016, 04:33:04 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested. I agree and ALL bitcoin was almost zeroed at least once due to a major software error. post on my poll have some fun with it. |
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Hueristic
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June 17, 2016, 05:42:22 PM |
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...This could kill all the crypto!...
LOL, not a chance in hell. When it crashes and burns it'll just get more peops interested. I agree and ALL bitcoin was almost zeroed at least once due to a major software error. post on my poll have some fun with it. Linky?found it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1516039.msg15254465#msg15254465 |
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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BitUsher
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June 17, 2016, 07:47:10 PM |
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Remember The Dao's marketing pitch? - "operating solely with the steadfast iron will of unstoppable code"?
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Fanpant
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June 17, 2016, 07:51:59 PM |
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DAO failed for now. If the code is written properly and test robustly, it might come back again, but it will take some time.
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