WARNING scammer r0ach now shilling for the Monero hoax

[iamnotback]

...

You lose the technical arguments and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.

Again another unsubstantiated claim.

Dude I posted the links of proof on the prior page of this thread.

And I am saving the slam dunk for last.

Monero's hashrate will plummet as the block reward declines.

And the transaction fees not only won't scale up because Monero has no adoption use case, but they can't scale up because Monero didn't solve the block size bandwidth problem (as neither did Bitcoin).

So smooth's points are slam dunk refuted.

Stop the whining shit please. And be nice. So others can be nice to you. Everyone can see clearly that there is no unsubstantiated claim. It is quite clear what happened here. Just read the thread.

I can't help it if you didn't understand what the discussion was about and started to write gibberish. And then somehow you expect me to be nice after you three gang up on me. And especially when all 3 of you are incorrect on the technical issue.

I try to be nice and friendly with others. But hopefully you can see this situation was impossible to take. Go read the thread and imagine you are myself. Put yourself in my shoes for once.

[iCEBREAKER]

iCEBREAKER, nobody cares what you have to say.

You are irrelevant. You don't code.

Do I need to link you to ArticMine getting schooled by myself the prior day about side-chains, CounterParty, and RootStock. Why should I bother to waste my time on you.

You don't understand that if you hasten the readjustment that enables other modes of attack. No matter which direction you go, the bottom line is that Monero isn't secure against an attacker with 1000X the hashrate. Period. Stop lying.

It's a performative contradiction (IE euphemism for hypocrisy) to simultaneously reply to me while *at the same time* claiming "nobody cares what I have to say."  Obviously, and demonstrably, *YOU* care what I have to say.   

"1000X the hashrate" for how many blocks?

Despite being asked you've yet to specify, in a typical display of intellectual dishonesty and schizophrenic derangement.   

Did anyone claim XMR (or any PoW coin) is completely safe from 1000X hashrate attacks?  I don't recall such an assertion.

You need to accept the fact smooth just woke you up, fed you breakfast, got you dressed, put you in your little car seat, and TOOK YOU TO SCHOOL.   

P.S.  Arcticmine, smooth, and I mix it up frequently; you have zero basis to assert we are conniving in the manner of you and jl777scammer.

[iamnotback]

I don't answer those who don't understand that the debate is over already, and who ask irrelevant questions. My prior post is proscriptive.

jl777 is not partnered with me on any project. Any more lies?

[ArticMine]

...

You lose the technical arguments and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.

Again another unsubstantiated claim.

Dude I posted the links of proof on the prior page of this thread.

And I am saving the slam dunk for last.

Monero's hashrate will plummet as the block reward declines.

And the transaction fees not only won't scale up because Monero has no adoption use case, but they can't scale up because Monero didn't solve the block size bandwidth problem (as neither did Bitcoin).

So smooth's points are slam dunk refuted.

Stop the whining shit please. And be nice. So others can be nice to you. Everyone can see clearly that there is no unsubstantiated claim. It is quite clear what happened here. Just read the thread.

I can't help it if you didn't understand what the discussion was about and started to write gibberish. And then somehow you expect me to be nice after you three gang up on me. And especially when all 3 of you are incorrect on the technical issue.

I try to be nice and friendly with others. But hopefully you can see this situation was impossible to take. Go read the thread and imagine you are myself. Put yourself in my shoes for once.

Your entire argument fails for Monero because you are not taking into account the tail emission which places a lower limit on the hashrate. for a given price in terms of the cost of computing power. As for fees in Cryptonote coins I expect the total fees per block to over time oscillate around a constant fraction of the emission regardless of the block size. For a constant price in terms of computing power I would expect the hashrate for Monero to eventually drop to around 7-8% of the current level. This is higher than the current hashrate of Bytecoin. Without a tail emission Cryptonote coins will eventually become insecure, so yes your argument does work for example for Bytecoin. Interestingly Bytecoin's pre mine / ninja mine could provide significant advance warning, in the order of two years, to the Monero community if one were to argue that the tail emission on Monero is not enough. This is kind of like a canary in a coal mine.

Edit: Taking only part of an argument while ignoring the rest of the argument does not invalidate the argument.

[iamnotback]

...

You lose the technical arguments and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.

Again another unsubstantiated claim.

Dude I posted the links of proof on the prior page of this thread.

And I am saving the slam dunk for last.

Monero's hashrate will plummet as the block reward declines.

And the transaction fees not only won't scale up because Monero has no adoption use case, but they can't scale up because Monero didn't solve the block size bandwidth problem (as neither did Bitcoin).

So smooth's points are slam dunk refuted.

Stop the whining shit please. And be nice. So others can be nice to you. Everyone can see clearly that there is no unsubstantiated claim. It is quite clear what happened here. Just read the thread.

I can't help it if you didn't understand what the discussion was about and started to write gibberish. And then somehow you expect me to be nice after you three gang up on me. And especially when all 3 of you are incorrect on the technical issue.

I try to be nice and friendly with others. But hopefully you can see this situation was impossible to take. Go read the thread and imagine you are myself. Put yourself in my shoes for once.

Your entire argument fails for Monero because you are not taking into account the tail emission which places a lower limit on the hashrate. for a given price in terms of the cost of computing power. As for fees in Cryptonote coins I expect the total fees per block to over time oscillate around a constant fraction of the emission regardless of the block size. For a constant price in terms of computing power I would expect the hashrate for Monero to eventually drop to around 7-8% of the current level. This is higher than the current hashrate of Bytecoin. Without a tail emission Cryptonote coins will eventually become insecure, so yes your argument does work for example for Bytecoin. Interestingly Bytecoin's pre mine / ninja mine could provide up significant advance warning, in the order of two years, to the Monero community if one were to argue that the tail emission on Monero is not enough. This is kind of like a canary in a coal mine.

The tail reward is much lower than the current reward.

So then if smooth already admitted that a 100X hashrate might be difficult to source but feasible, so then 1000X becomes feasible when Monero's hashrate drops by 1/10 as you admit.

Please stop the lies! You continue to lie (see bolded, underlined).

So after wasting my entire fucking day, I was correct.

And you wonder why people get annoyed at Monero's community. Surely you are smart enough to have figured this all out 3 pages back and said, "you are correct". Then I would respect you.

Everyone knows that software developers disrespect those people who waste our time. Because we never have enough time.


r0ach close the damn thread. It is wasting a lot of precious time!

[smoothie]

The "attacker" can rent 1000X more botnets than you can. That was the entire point of the "attacker's" blog article.

'NotBack you are going of the deep end a bit here.

The difficulty stratosphere attack you've described doesn't work very well against Monero if you work out actual numbers.

If you wanted to drive up the difficulty 1000x then you would need something approaching a billion typical (old, insecure, low powered) botnet nodes. If you wanted to use higher performance computers say from cloud computing you'd need 10 million or so, which is good portion of the capacity of the big cloud computing vendors. To rent that you would have to displace most or all of their other paying customers (or in the case of vendors such as Amazon or Google, their own usage). That won't happen.

Now lets say you did manage to, somehow, drive the difficulty up 1000x. You would drive the average block time from 2 minutes to 2000 minutes which is around a day and a half. The chain would not completely stall, it would continue to generate blocks at this slow rate. Those blocks would feed into the difficulty adjustment and after a few days the block time would rapidly begin to come down. It would still be slow for quite a while, but the severity would subside. Meanwhile, the blocks would be full of high-paying transactions and the block size would increase. The network would hobble along until it self-healed.

If you tried the possibly more plausible 100x version instead of the ridiculous 1000x version, then the block time only goes to 200 minutes, which hardly slower than Bitcoin on a bad day (I've personally waited over an hour for a block). Again, block size adjustment would start to kick in and clear the transaction backlog. Over time (hours to days, not years) the block time would start to come back down pretty fast anyway.

This ignores that Monero with a billion market cap would probably have a much higher baseline hash rate, meaning not only is 1000x implausible but 100x would probably be as well. And a 10x difficulty attack is just purely money for basically no purpose.

Nothing about this is specific to Monero's algorithm, which probably isn't even all that good. This sort of attack won't work against any current alts with faster base block times and difficulty adjustment algorithms that have been battle-tested not only by malicious parties but by auto-switching pools which do this form of "attack" automatically and routinely by rapidly moving massive amounts of hash rate between coins.

The attack works much better against Bitcoin-style coins (1st gen alts mostly) that start with a higher block time and that maintain a fixed difficulty for a (reasonably long) cycle. You drive up the difficulty during one cycle and the difficulty never adjusts at all until the end of the next cycle so there is an unacceptable wait for the whole cycle (2016 blocks in the case of many early alts that just copied Bitcoin).

In 2011, Namecoin was a prime example of this (bolded).

it took months for the difficulty adjustment to happen downwards.

[smoothie]

...
I asked you Monerotards to stop wasting my time.
...

If you do not want to waste your time may I suggest:
1) Stop proposing attacks that make zero economic sense
2) Stop insulting people.

You are a liar (or incredibly ignorant of the technology).

And you are insulting me. I asked you to stop being intellectually dishonest and wasting my time.

Now you send smooth here to insult me and lie.

smooth, ArticMine, and iCEBREAKER ganging up on me and lying.

You don't play the victim very well.

Anonymint is that you? 

[smoothie]

...
It is self-evident that Monerotards attack in droves.

If you don't like being associated with that foul mouth, then say so.

You made an allegation that you cannot support. Please do not try to justify it with insults or by repeating the allegation.

You lose the technical arguments and now you try to argue for victory on a technicality when you know damn well why I am pissed off.

Grow some people skills. Treat people like shit and waste their time and attack in droves and you will not be liked. Period.


Now that you 3 guys have wasted several hours of my day. May I bill you $500 for my lost time? Of course not. But I hope you understand how wasteful this is.


No one dare speak up about Monero, lest they lose their entire income due to endless attacks.

Who is forcing you to respond in this thread?

Nobody but yourself.

Do us all a favor and at least own your own actions (like wasting your own time posting on the forum per your own words).

[ArticMine]

...
The tail reward is much lower than the current reward.

So then if smooth already admitted that a 100X hashrate might be difficult to source but feasible, so then 1000X becomes feasible when Monero's hashrate drops by 1/10 as you admit.

Please stop the lies! You continue to lie (see bolded, underlined).

So after wasting my entire fucking day, I was correct.

And you wonder why people get annoyed at Monero's community. Surely you are smart enough to have figured this all out 3 pages back and said, "you are correct". Then I would respect you.

Everyone knows that software developers disrespect those people who waste our time. Because we never have enough time.


r0ach close the damn thread. It is wasting a lot of precious time!

So:
1) Wait for Monero to reach tail emission
2) Hope the price does not go up in the interim (A major failure that is orthogonal to this debate)
3) And then the attack is barely feasible.

Edit 1: Maybe we should table this debate until Monero reaches the tail emission, since the attack has to wait until then to have even a hope of possible feasibility, and save everyone a lot of time.
Edit 2: r0ach did not start this thread.

[AnnoyMint]

All of you (except possibly Spoetnik) are certified idiots.

None of you can understand how I, as the inventor of the "Video Microwave" in 1989, have a wholly superior knowledge of quantum mechanics and the use of the cavity magnetron for manipulating EITHER NTSC or PAL broadcast signals.  It was therefore superior to the fundamentally inferior "Video Toaster" which ran on that damned Jay Miner's Amiga.

Jay sent god dammed Tim Jennison in to taunt me with more lies, and though my technology was superior their lies were able to influence the world of video production for years to come.

But w.r.t. to this current topic of mockery I simply do not have the time to explain how stuipid you all are and you would not be able to understand it anyway.

I am an inventor while you are all mice.

Or possibly a squirrel in the case of Spoetnik.

[AnnoyMint]

Having just posted upthread I fell I must expand to clarify, I do not think Spoetnik is anything like the Squirrel galagos (Sciurocheirus) whose prehensile hands ( in both fore AND hind paws) give it the neural sophistication that is way beyond Spoetnics capacity.

He would be more the inferior melanistic eastern grey squirrel.

Common, and wholly idiotic almost as fully as you Mus Musculus fools.

[Spoetnik]

Having just posted upthread I fell I must expand to clarify, I do not think Spoetnik is anything like the Squirrel galagos (Sciurocheirus) whose prehensile hands ( in both fore AND hind paws) give it the neural sophistication that is way beyond Spoetnics capacity.

He would be more the inferior melanistic eastern grey squirrel.

Common, and wholly idiotic almost as fully as you Mus Musculus fools.

I can ICO THAT !

And nice to see you in the Altcoin section Bruno LOL

I warned these guys before you were comin'  

I see smoothie was compelled to jump into this bs too ahahhaha
You are all compulsive and manic techno blow hards..
Which would be fine if it was even remotely within context of the discussion at hand.

Funny part is i can quote all of these guys bad mouthing Bitcointalk
..then proclaiming how they are all leaving  

(funny 'cause their still here spouting off)

Do you want to discuss the topic ?
It does not seem that way.

If you are all content acting this way then go for it..
I just tried to point out how it catastrophically undermines your "I'm smart speech"

EDIT:
I may have not gotten the guys name correct on that..
Guy PM'd me to say it's not him.

[iamnotback]

Privately developing an ASIC for Monero with orders-of-magnitude increase in power efficiency that normally results from an ASIC, is another potential way to amass massive hashrate advantage. Cryptonite seems to be compute bound, so if true then it is not ASIC resistant. If that is true, then until Monero's market becomes large enough to incentivize the development of publicly available ASICs, then it could be vulnerable.

Also as Monero's hashrate falls due to declining block rewards, that opens another opportunity to attack it more cheaply with rented hashrate.

Monero is fighting the State by offering anonymity. The Black Budget of the USA in excess of $4 trillion. If the DEEP STATE decides they want to crush Monero with hashrate attacks, then I don't believe Monero can defend itself. I believe this is what the blog article I linked to that started this discussion was concerned about. You may observe his writings are laced with anti-USG rhetoric.

Observe the Monero gang attacking me here, but none of you have proceeded to the blog of the author of the article I linked. His blog is open for comments. Are you afraid to rebuke him, the source of the allegation.

I think it is ludicrous to argue that these small market cap altcoins with declining block rewards are secure against such threats. It shouldn't even be an argument amongst sane individuals.

[Shrikez]

You convinced me.

let's roll over and die.

[iamnotback]

let's roll over and die.

I raised the point not because I wanted to give up (although sometimes you guys make me feel like I would like to leave CC yet luckily my desire to fight overpowers my feelings/perceptions about how insane this market is). But because r0ach who has been for the past months (ever since he stopped teasing us with Bitshares' DPOS) arguing that Bitcoin is the only shit, suddenly starts pumping an altcoin (Monero). He raved about how it is superior to Zcash and he said basically it is the only altcoin that is worth considering. Fuck if Monero is the be all and end all of our attempts to improve CC, then we should roll over and die.

More power to Monero if they can surprise and actually figure out how to fix these problems and even challenge Bitcoin. But I am not holding my breath.

Monero had their years to dominate the forums. And what do we have to show for it?

Let someone else have a chance. Don't tell me Monero is only choice!

We need more experimentation. Monero has no clue on how to fix these issues. Nor how to obtain adoption. I was in their chat the other day to listen and it is all just nonsense. They have no plan whatsoever that is viable. And I wasn't planning on stating that, but since it wasn't enough to just let me make a statement about mining security being a weakness of proof-of-work altcoins, it unfortunately comes to me spilling out my other perceptions.

I have no problem with Monero, other than when people start speaking lies. Monero is one of the anonymity coins. It is a contender. Zcash is a contender. r0ach you are acting like the snake oil salesmen, such as iCEBREAKER who just say anything without any care whatsoever as to balance and accuracy. It is not true that Monero is superior to Zcash in every way, not even after RingCT is implemented, but I don't want to get into another long debate. So I won't even tell you why. I have already discussed that in the other threads many times before and I will not waste my time rehashing it. You are attacking a coin which isn't even released yet.

Note I haven't slept for 24 hours. So of course my writing is atrocious.



Let me add that I believe in meritocracy. I wish we could all stay in our official coin threads and go compete with action.

Enough words!

Please stop pumping shit!

Go work and STFU. All of us.

Compete and win on the merits of your adoption. We don't need r0ach or any other personality leading us like flock. Run a signature campaign if you want to plaster the forum with your banner. But pleeeeassssee stop with attacking other coins such as Zcash. Go build your own fucking coin and make it a Bitcoin killer. Words against Zcash isn't accomplishment. And for as long as Monero has ongoing forks (upgrades), please don't holier than thou about how Zcash has a corporation doing the open source coding. Open source coding has often been funded by corporations.

We need action. Stop the fucking games!

None of you can understand how I, as the inventor of the "Video Microwave" in 1989, have a wholly superior knowledge of quantum mechanics and the use of the cavity magnetron for manipulating EITHER NTSC or PAL broadcast signals.  It was therefore superior to the fundamentally inferior "Video Toaster" which ran on that damned Jay Miner's Amiga.

Fail. It is not even not funny. But it says something about you.

[Days]

...

You send iCEBREAKER here to foam at the mouth. What do you expect?

You three attacking me and not even being coherent on the technical issues.

I did not send anyone to say anything. Again an accusatory allegation with no evidence to support it.

I think he's talking about the fact that you alone donated like 20000 Monero  to the team which makes you like a giant Monero bagholder if u can do that lol... no wonder this forum see's you going crazy on Monero threads along with hashfest scammer Icebreaker and the 2 commit "Monero developer" Smooth  =(

You know what's funny after calling out that MOnero developer who took also around 20000 Monero's from that gambling site Monerdice hosted by the main Monero developer Fluffypony  I think he's name was othe...yes yes that useless developer who took the biggest win on that website yet he didn't do much also for 2 years or so...so yes it is believable to say that Monero with their giant bagholders and useless developer would hire ppl to spam the forums.

[AnnoyMint]

None of you can understand how I, as the inventor of the "Video Microwave" in 1989, have a wholly superior knowledge of quantum mechanics and the use of the cavity magnetron for manipulating EITHER NTSC or PAL broadcast signals.  It was therefore superior to the fundamentally inferior "Video Toaster" which ran on that damned Jay Miner's Amiga.

Fail. It is not even not funny. But it says something about you.

Someone has sent iamnotback to gang up on my superior comedy.  I could send links and links of superior comedy to prove it, and I just may.

Everything I post says something about me.  Not sure what you think I said there though.

But you never seen not even not until you've seen my version of not even not.  And I fully understand the not even wrong theorum.

But I don't have not too much work to not do right now to never not argue with you right now or not.

This will be my last ever post.

[From Above]

Someone has sent iamnotback to gang up on my superior comedy.
-snappetysnap-
This will be my last ever post.

i personally cant see any comedy in ur utter shite my nifty boy

but i want to thank u for deciding that to be the last post

thanx

~CfA~

[AnnoyMint]

Someone has sent iamnotback to gang up on my superior comedy.
-snappetysnap-
This will be my last ever post.

i personally cant see any comedy in ur utter shite my nifty boy

but i want to thank u for deciding that to be the last post

thanx

~CfA~

You are a beta male and incapable of understanding such filigreed subtlety.

Begone.

[iamnotback]

Readers please note that I don't have anything against Monero as an open source experiment in crypto-currency. I support their experimentation. I don't like (bordering on hate although I don't allow myself be consumed by hate) the community of Monero. And I don't support when someone writes that Monero is the only altcoin that is serious or worthy. They have not yet earned that, and if ever they do earn that, they won't need to state it because such truths are self-evident.

There is something foul smell in the community of Monero. I'd rather not try to explain what that smell is, as others have already explored that. Ethereum has its idolizing fanboiz and Monero has its delusion-of-superiority, pack-dog-attacking bagboiz. Something like that.

Someone has sent iamnotback to gang up on my superior comedy.
-snappetysnap-
This will be my last ever post.

i personally cant see any comedy in ur utter shite my nifty boy

but i want to thank u for deciding that to be the last post

thanx

~CfA~

You are a beta male and incapable of understanding such filigreed subtlety.

Begone.

And you are?

(obviously at least a *Munderotard bagholder)

*Munderotard
noun
Often confused with a decentralized crypto-currency, it rather refers to a constituent in the community of bagholders and bagboiz whose sole vocation in life is to convince force down the throats of everyone else that bagging users is an adoption marketing plan for a future-shock coin with regularly scheduled "community" forks leading the way away from centralization to that Holy Banal Grail (HBG).

You don't play the victim very well.

Yet another glorious example of Munderotards banding together to play political games and thinking this is an accomplishment.

Analogous to a pact of dogs or monkeys. Not less predictable than a broken clock twice a day.

Masters of destruction and mundane, excruciatingly slow (rate of development of and actual execution performance) creations.

Who is forcing you to respond in this thread?

Nobody but yourself.

Do us all a favor and at least own your own actions (like wasting your own time posting on the forum per your own words).

Logic of fail. If I own my actions (posts), then I am forced to defend them against attacks.

Four pages of shred, just to come to the conclusion that yes indeed altcoins with $million mcaps and declining block rewards, are probably insecure against an adversary with the resources of a billionaire, or more so when their hashrate has so declined already.

It shouldn't require 4 pages of bagging, to be intellectually honest and cordial and arrive at an amicable understanding that yes indeed altcoins need to be able to gain millions of users as Bitcoin has, so they become secure against all hashrate attacks. Then again Bitcoin has the subsequent problem which is then how do you stop the mining from becoming centralized control as the adoption scales up.

No non-vaporware block chain has yet solved this conundrum.

So again instead of attacking me (which is not an accomplishment), how about you just get in touch with reality, roll up your sleeves, get to work, and stop pumping your shitcoin down everyone's throat.

I realize you Munderotards are jealous with Ethereum and others making 100X gains, and you need to find some bagholders to dump your bags on, but taking your frustration out on me is not an accomplishment. Really, slaying AnonyMint is not worth even a single fuck. Find a more productive vocation.