IDEAL: no ICOs, no proof-of-work, no proof-of-stake, no governance, and no forks

[iamnotback]

I am not so sure of the no-fork thing. Yes ok, in the todays sense, but to achieve decentralization it means to have a choice. So maybe 'forks' should actually be part of it, a protocol of many coins. The interpretation of value outside of the system that manages it. Freedom to move my value elsewhere at any point along those that think alike.

If you want to fork, offer a proof-of-burn. Let's each token hodler decide independently from the others. Degrees-of-freedom = freedom and decentralization. Binding us all together in one knot is politics, centralization, corruption, and failure.

[1715207213]

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[CoinHoarder]

Well, well... Anonymint is still living in fantasy land, but at least he can admit it now.

Here he is spewing some false ideal ideology that no one can hope to achieve.

Meanwhile, tearing down other people's genuine effort/experiments/innovations, because they are flawed based on the unrealistic ideologies he concocted.

A wise man once said "those that can't do teach", and it is easy to see that applies here.

Hello Bitshares' DPOS (proof-of-stake) supporter. Your bias is obvious. I just wish you'd make a technical argument, instead of attacking a person to defend your Bitshares. You must love Bitshares more than the truth.

I had hope people wouldn't bring specific coins into this thread and turn the thread into a flame war.

Is it even possible to have a rational discussion on Bitcointalk?

It is cute how you tried to change the topic. Please show me where in my post that I mentioned Bitshares. I will resize the text back to normal to help you out.

[iamnotback]

It is cute how you tried to change the topic. Please show me where in my post that I mentioned Bitshares. I will resize the text back to normal to help you out.

Likewise, show me where I stated you mentioned Bitshares. Likewise, it is cute how you try to change the topic. Refer to my reply to you again.

[balu2]

have to add: one needs to make a distinction between a cryptocurrency (higher inflation for circulation in business) and a cryptocommodity (lower inflation for value storage with less volume in the markets and less circulation). These are two different valid money-animals in their own right. Apart from that these other (ico)toycoins and tokens shouldn't be looked at as real currency or commmodity because most will be gone in a few weeks and nobody can remember them.

Bitcoin isn't a currency; it's a commodity btw.

The community really needs to discuss what makes a coin a valid money and what properties and requirements and also priorities money has. This crypto-thing is about value store and medium of exchange; it's not about "innovation going nowhere", "adding more features", "good marketing and roadmap" and "littering the landscape with abandoned projects"

Please make crypto great already! No more ponzi-presale-scams! Fuck overrating of innovation - it's broken 'innovation' in 99,99% of cases (aka 'no innovation at all')

Ultimately a simple, resilient, viable and fair coin is to prefer to a complex, hyped, new and broken coin for the longterm investors.  People need to use the brain more.
This is software based on math that needs to be secure and new tech needs vetting and auditing - and a lot of that,this is not dishwashers or radios where more features are always better and simple to roll out.  


edit: don't see a problem with margin-exchange. It just adds a little more volatility but won't affect the overall valuation of the coin. It's just more noise, no issue with that.

edit2: governance is only possible through consensus - in the literal sense of the word, not only machine-consensus; a majority vote is not that. Projects governed by 50%+1 majority votes will 100% fail in the long run. Yes, 100%.
The only way of governance is by consensus or 90% majority-votes. Why it is this way is a topic for a large article about history of mankind and money and dynamics in power aswell as observations in politics.
It's not as easy as people think. People aren't aware of the pitfalls of majority votes. They will have to fail for 10 or 20 years in these coins before understanding what some know already. Such is life

[CoinHoarder]

no one has yet shown that these ideals are plausible

....

Any project I launch will be attempting to achieve these goals.

Well, well... Anonymint is still living in fantasy land, but at least he can admit it now.

Here he is spewing some false ideal ideology that no one can hope to achieve.

Meanwhile, tearing down other people's genuine effort/experiments/innovations, because they are flawed based on the unrealistic ideologies he concocted.

A wise man once said "those that can't do teach", and it is easy to see that applies here.

Exhibit A...

In the OP you admit that no one has been able to solve the ideals you claim as being ideal.

Then, you go on to crucify any cryptocurrency that doesn't meet these unobtainable ideals by trolling Bitcointalk.

Since no one is willing to waste as much time as you are by defending their points, you "win" by default.

Exhibit B...

Since your ideal list of cryptocurrency "must haves" is not achievable, it is akin to me saying "all cryptocurrencies should solve world hunger" or "all cryptocurrencies should have the ability to time travel".

Then, imagine that I go around trolling all cryptocurrencies that do not have these features.

That is in essence what you have been doing for the past year(s) on here.

Exhibit C...

There is no such thing as a fair cryptocurrency distribution.

What is fair to someone (for example, you) would not be considered fair by someone else (enter some random person here).

You may think you have obtained some state of enlightenment, and been able to solve the problem no one has been able to solve, but you are fooling yourself.

I cannot wait for you to release your plans for an "ideal" distribution so that I can point out all of the ways it will be considered unfair by random current and future participants.

[iamnotback]

In the OP you admit that no one has been able to solve the ideals you claim as being ideal.

Then, you go on to crucify any cryptocurrency that doesn't meet these unobtainable ideals by trolling Bitcointalk.

I didn't crucify any project. I wrote these are my ideals, i.e. goals.

I did point out where existing projects don't yet accomplish these idealistic goals, which just makes facts, not crucifixion. If nothing yet meets my ideal goals, that doesn't mean I am crucifying the others.

Since no one is willing to waste as much time as you are by defending their points, you "win" by default.

Outlining idealistic goals and shooting to achieve them, is a win for everyone that cares and shares my vision about the value and idealistic outlook for our crypto block chain ecosystem.

Perhaps you didn't realize this thread isn't pumping any projects. Just because I didn't pump your favorite investments, doesn't mean you didn't win. Unless you are just a selfish Hitler "assimilate or die" retard. I already know from your prior stalking of me, that you are 20-something guy at the university with a chip on your shoulder. Hopefully you come to maturity senses after reading this, and chillax. But something tells me your bruised tardbutt ego is going to go ballistic instead of taking this mild "for you own good' educational spanking and realize you are just acting like a jealous asshat again.

Since your ideal list of cryptocurrency "must haves" is not achievable, ...

I will later prove it is achievable; thus your assumption is incorrect.

But even presuming you are correct (which you aren't), it is still okay for some of us to have idealistic R&D goals.

...it is akin to me saying "all cryptocurrencies should solve world hunger" or "all cryptocurrencies should have the ability to time travel".

I did not state any where in this thread that anyone should stop their involvement in existing projects in the interim time until my goals are attained. Nor did I state they should abandon other projects and choose my idealism if ever my ideal goals were attained. Every person should decide for themself.

Then, imagine that I go around trolling all cryptocurrencies that do not have these features.

You used to troll other coins while trying to promote the features of Bitshares.

And I didn't troll any CCs in this thread. You are trolling my thread and attacking me. So don't be surprised by my reaction. Grow up kid.

That is in essence what you have been doing for the past year(s) on here.

Do you have my photo taped on your dorm room door and throw darts at it while studying?

Chillax bro and focus on making your own accomplishments. Stop stalking my coattails, because you are jealous when I have any readership. Otherwise you just waste time & effort you could apply to making your own accomplishments.

(I'd refer you to threads over the past month where I did extensive mea culpas about being wrong for harping about scams and taking strong-willed sides about which projects are worthy, but I don't think you are sincerely interested in the power of reformation and improvement)

There is no such thing as a fair cryptocurrency distribution.

What is fair to someone (for example, you) would not be considered fair by someone else (enter some random person here).

The definition I am using was provided upthread. What you've written is not my definition. You are free to not ascribe to my definition of a fair, free market, competitively priced launch distribution. And others are free to ascribe to my ideals.

You may think you have obtained some state of enlightenment, and been able to solve the problem no one has been able to solve, but you are fooling yourself.

I cannot wait for you to release your plans for an "ideal" distribution so that I can point out all of the ways it will be considered unfair by random current and future participants.

You are so sure of yourself. Cocky enough to troll your off-topic attacks. Remember how when we were teenagers and we thought our parents were stupid. And you are a 20-something "know it all" now disrespecting a 51-year computer programmer with 37 years of coding experience. It doesn't mean a 20 year old doesn't have anything useful to say. Rather it means don't go gun blazing, when you are not even not wrong, but rather off-topic. If you want to start a "I hate AnonyMint" thread, then go ahead. There is actually already such a thread about AnonyMint that got move to Reputation. Your personal attacks on me are off-topic to this thread subject.

I am going to ask you one time nicely to please not troll this thread with nonsense bickering, back and forth flame wars.

[iamnotback]

edit: don't see a problem with margin-exchange. It just adds a little more volatility but won't affect the overall valuation of the coin. It's just more noise, no issue with that.

I added that after writing the OP, based on learning that one way to manipulate the coin's price and market cap is to control many of tokens (such as perhaps via an ICO buying from yourself as the issuer), then use margin to create more buy or sell demand.

If the distribution of the token is thought to be reasonably competitive, transparent/free market (i.e. "fair"), then I also don't see a problem with margin trading. It actually adds more information to the ecosystem.

[iamnotback]

Don't tell me the current Satoshi proof-of-work is any where near a fair, competitive free market distribution scheme:

Remember ZIRP-pusher Larry Summers (the same guy alleged to have gone to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union to arrange the transfer of nationalized assets to newly anointed oligarchs), is on the board of 21 Inc.

As an example of the potential power of its pool, 21's mining operations generated approximately 5,700 BTC in 2013 and 69,000 BTC the following year, according to the document.

By the time its chips were to be embedded into Internet of Things (IoT) devices, 21 projected its cost to produce 1 BTC could be as low as $7.45.

So we pay $600 per BTC, and 21 Inc. will pay $8.

[CoinHoarder]

In the OP you admit that no one has been able to solve the ideals you claim as being ideal.

Then, you go on to crucify any cryptocurrency that doesn't meet these unobtainable ideals by trolling Bitcointalk.

I didn't crucify any project. I wrote these are my ideals, i.e. goals.

I did point out where existing projects don't yet accomplish these idealistic goals, which just makes facts, not crucifixion. If nothing yet meets my ideal goals, that doesn't mean I am crucifying the others.

Certainly, in this thread you have not crucified any projects. However, in many other threads there is evidence of such. I am confident that forum members that have been paying attention can understand what I mean by that.

Since no one is willing to waste as much time as you are by defending their points, you "win" by default.

Outlining idealistic goals and shooting to achieve them, is a win for everyone that cares and shares my vision about the value and idealistic outlook for our crypto block chain ecosystem.

Yes, but you are claiming to have solved at least one of these ideals, but not revealing the solution. Meanwhile, you are tearing down other cryptocurrencies' reputations because of them. You provide no proof of you having solved these issues. Pointing out a problem is one thing, but claiming to have solved it, and any cryptocurrency that hasn't to be a "dead end" or "eternally broken", is another.

Perhaps you didn't realize this thread isn't pumping any projects. Just because I didn't pump your favorite investments, doesn't mean you didn't win. Unless you are just a selfish Hitler "assimilate or die" retard. I already know from your prior stalking of me, that you are 20-something guy at the university with a chip on your shoulder. Hopefully you come to maturity senses after reading this, and chillax. But something tells me your bruised tardbutt ego is going to go ballistic instead of taking this mild "for you own good' educational spanking and realize you are just acting like a jealous asshat again.

I see that you still haven't realized this since we last debated. It is a shame for a self-proclaimed genius, and "jack of all trades". You are pumping a project.... yours. Your statement:

Any project I launch will be attempting to achieve these goals.

Since your ideal list of cryptocurrency "must haves" is not achievable, ...

I will later prove it is achievable; thus your assumption is incorrect.

This is a pump in and of itself. Your posts throughout the past years have been pumping a cryptocurrency... yours. You are no different than the "scammers" that you intend to crucify by written word, daily. You argue these unrealistic ideals are ideal, and that any cryptocurrency that doesn't meet them is a dead end or broken (evidenced by your statements in many other threads), then pretend like you have solved all these issues. It is on you to provide proof. If you have such ground-breaking solutions, then please reveal them. Until then, you are simply blowing hot air and spreading FUD.

Effectively, all of your attacks on any other cryptocurrency can be viewed as pumping your yet-to-be-released info-yet-to-be-published super-duper-awesome coin that solves all of cryptocurrencies' existing problems.

But even presuming you are correct (which you aren't), it is still okay for some of us to have idealistic R&D goals.

Yet, you claim them as being "must haves", and attack any other cryptocurrency that can't solve your unsolvable problems. Again, as evidenced in many other threads and posts of yours.

...it is akin to me saying "all cryptocurrencies should solve world hunger" or "all cryptocurrencies should have the ability to time travel".

I did not state anywhere in this thread that anyone should stop their involvement in existing projects in the interim time until my goals are attained. Nor did I state they should abandon other projects and choose my idealism if ever my ideal goals were attained. Every person should decide for themself.

You do not implicitly state it in this thread, but you imply it... which has the same effect as explicitly stating it. Not to mention all the other threads where you explicitly argue these principals.

Then, imagine that I go around trolling all cryptocurrencies that do not have these features.

You used to troll other coins while trying to promote the features of Bitshares.

You mean Nubits? That is because Bitshares' Smartcoins are a better design than Nubits. That is evidenced by Nubits' recent crash and burn. Nubits are worth $0.22 now, meanwhile bitUSD is worth $1.06. bitUSD, after two years of trading, has more closely tracked the value of the US dollar than Nubits. Please, enlighten me how I was wrong? The evidence (market data history) proves that my claims were correct.

And I didn't troll any CCs in this thread. You are trolling my thread and attacking me. So don't be surprised by my reaction. Grow up kid.

This thread is simply a microcosm of your previous posts/threads trolling other cryptocurrencies. Considering the body of evidence, evaluating this thread without considering all your other posts/threads would be silly.

That is in essence what you have been doing for the past year(s) on here.

Do you have my photo taped on your dorm room door and throw darts at it while studying?

Chillax bro and focus on making your own accomplishments. Stop stalking my coattails, because you are jealous when I have any readership. Otherwise you just waste time & effort you could apply to making your own accomplishments.

(I'd refer you to threads over the past month where I did extensive mea culpas about being wrong for harping about scams and taking strong-willed sides about which projects are worthy, but I don't think you are sincerely interested in the power of reformation and improvement)

You always complain about "character assassination" while performing character assination yourself. Pot meet kettle.

You are so sure of yourself. Cocky enough to troll your off-topic attacks. Remember how when we were teenagers and we thought our parents were stupid. And you are a 20-something "know it all" now disrespecting a 51-year computer programmer with 37 years of coding experience. It doesn't mean a 20 year old doesn't have anything useful to say. Rather it means don't go gun blazing, when you are not even not wrong, but rather off-topic. If you want to start a "I hate AnonyMint" thread, then go ahead. There is actually already such a thread about AnonyMint that got move to Reputation. Your personal attacks on me are off-topic to this thread subject.

I am going to ask you one time nicely to please not troll this thread with nonsense bickering, back and forth flame wars.

Remember, it is on you to prove that you have solved the unsolvable. Until then, you are simply blowing hot air and spreading FUD.

[iamnotback]

Certainly, in this thread you have not crucified any projects.

Exactly.

Pointing out a problem is one thing, but claiming to have solved it, and any cryptocurrency that hasn't to be a "dead end" or "eternally broken", is another.

You said it, not me.

You are pumping a project.... yours.

Impossible because there is no project to pump. Where can it be purchased? It can't.

Btw, I answered a question.

You are a jealous troll.

Please go pump your investments in other threads and stop trolling my thread.

[Moneroman88]

Why do you believe that you know what is ideal? How can you be so sure of what you say?

Do you think you're (a) god?

[ICOcountdown.com]

You need basic proof of work to even launch a blockchain in the firstplace? 

[iamnotback]

Why do you believe that you know what is ideal? How can you be so sure of what you say?

Do you think you're (a) god?

I stated these are my ideals. I didn't state that everyone must agree with my ideals.

You need basic proof of work to even launch a blockchain in the firstplace?  

I believe (based on my private work) Satohi's proof-of-work isn't the only kind of proof-of-work block chain possible.

[Moneroman88]

Why do you believe that you know what is ideal? How can you be so sure of what you say?

Do you think you're (a) god?

I stated these are my ideals. I didn't state that everyone must agree with my ideals.

Okay I see, that makes sense and that's perfectly legit of course. Interesting topic!

[ICOcountdown.com]

Why do you believe that you know what is ideal? How can you be so sure of what you say?

Do you think you're (a) god?

I stated these are my ideals. I didn't state that everyone must agree with my ideals.

You need basic proof of work to even launch a blockchain in the firstplace?  

I believe (based on my private work) Satohi's proof-of-work isn't the only kind of proof-of-work block chain possible.

Maybe I have misunderstood but it states you want no proof of work in the title of this thread?

[iamnotback]

You need basic proof of work to even launch a blockchain in the firstplace?  

I believe (based on my private work) Satohi's proof-of-work isn't the only kind of proof-of-work block chain possible.

Maybe I have misunderstood but it states you want no proof of work in the title of this thread?

I couldn't fit "(Satoshi's)" into the title:

2.

No (Satoshi) Proof-of-work: Proof-of-work concentrates the money supply, economic profits, and control to the mining farms (esp. those with electricity subsidies). Meet your new central bank masters, the mining cartel. Permissionless, trustless attributes are lost, e.g. forks are possible. Since all the debasement ends up with the rich via mining, the system has no countervailing mechanism to recirculate the money supply to prevent it from losing its attribute as a unit-of-exchange for the broad public. Proof-of-work launches provide no funding for the core developers, unless they are accomplished with premine, instamine, stealthmine, or non-optimized proof-of-work function deceptions. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1524286.msg15342314#msg15342314

[twunkle]

would it be possible you think to do a DEX type thing with actual (not-middle-man) token trading. maybe some kind of pow that saves you transaction cost but not more than that if you run a node but can also take another transaction fee? Or something like that

pow of work using the pow of the others? the powowcoin, only one never to be had

Dont mind if someone makes it then

[CoinHoarder]

Certainly, in this thread you have not crucified any projects.

Exactly.

However, in other threads there are many examples of you doing this. Should I just omit a large portion of evidence (all your previous accounts/posts/threads) just so you can be right?

Pointing out a problem is one thing, but claiming to have solved it, and any cryptocurrency that hasn't to be a "dead end" or "eternally broken", is another.

You said it, not me.

Again, you are either losing your memory, or not taking into account your actions and words in previous posts/threads.

You are pumping a project.... yours.

Impossible because there is no project to pump. Where can it be purchased? It can't.

Come on, a self-proclaimed genius ought to be able to figure this out. Whether or not it is intentional, you are pumping your details-yet-to-be-published super-duper-awesome-coin that may-never-come-to-fruition, because you-spend-too-much-time-trolling-Bitcointalk, and you cant-release-any-details-so-we-can't-evaluate-whether-your-claims-are-true. By attacking other coins (their communities, their developers, and their technology) relentlessly, you are creating hype about your coin that you are supposedly "developing" which supposedly "solves" all these problems, but you can't tell us all how. Your brain must be that of a pea to not be able to understand that vaporware can be pumped. Even though you cannot buy it right now, you will be able to buy it at some point, and you are constantly hyping it on these forums. Since you cannot buy it right now, all you are doing is building hype and suspense. That is the textbook definition of pumping.

Hyping = Pumping
Spreading FUDing Competitors = Pumping
Hyping Vaporware = Pumping
Vaporware = Pumpable

Got it, genius?  

Here you are pumping in your own words (and this is only one of numerous examples:)

no one has yet shown that these ideals are plausible ... Any project I launch will be attempting to achieve these goals.

BAM. Another example of you pumping your details-yet-to-be-released that-may-or-may-not-exist-or-come-to-fruition vaporware:

I believe (based on my private work) Satohi's proof-of-work isn't the only kind of proof-of-work blockchain possible.

You are a jealous troll.

Please go pump your investments in other threads and stop trolling my thread.

It's nice to see you are still in denial. You will probably ignore me again and write me off a troll, meanwhile continuing to ignore reality, but really all I am doing is pointing out the obvious. I am sure that the forum members can see and agree with the points I am making here. A self-proclaimed genius ought to be able to as well.  

All that you need to do is admit that you are pumping vaporware, and then I will leave you alone. You have only your pride to lose. You do after all criticize others for pumping their tokens, and then turn a blind eye when you yourself do it. You are just as guilty as everyone else. Yes, I pump coins that I believe in and am invested in... just like everyone else does. You are similarly invested into your coin intellectually, through many hours of hard work, and because you care about your reputation. You also have a financial interest if it is successful. You can unknowingly pump cryptocurrencies and vaporware while still having good intentions. The outcome is still the same.... pumping. I can admit it, I have pumped coins (with good intentions because I believed they would be valuable), but you (the genius) can't admit that? Whether any random person has good or bad intentions, they can still knowingly and unknowingly pump any certain cryptocurrency by posting both positive and negative remarks.

[twunkle]

some ppl are just ignorant of powows 

[MarketMagic]

shelby knows his stuff even even when he is trolling.