MoonShadow
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April 14, 2013, 04:26:16 AM |
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Might be a good idea to not add this to the BTC code anytime soon. Too much privacy might be counterproductive, at least with the government. To have it as a web thing makes some sense.
I guess people who want total anonymity will find a way to do that.
with BTC people should have the freedom to have privacy. And Bitcoin is currently less anonymous than credit cards. Zerocoin might solve some of those problems. This is false. Bitcoin is significantly more private than credit cards. Credit cards, by their nature, are intimately connected to your real world identity. It's literally impossible for them to be private from third parties. With Bitcoin, even as it is, at least some degree of anonimity is possible regarding any person or organization that is not directly part of the transaction, although it often takes some degree of extra care. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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The block chain is the main innovation of Bitcoin. It is the
first distributed timestamping system.
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polarix
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April 14, 2013, 06:37:44 PM |
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Bitcoin is significantly more private than credit cards. Credit cards, by their nature, are intimately connected to your real world identity. It's literally impossible for them to be private from third parties. With Bitcoin, even as it is, at least some degree of anonimity is possible regarding any person or organization that is not directly part of the transaction, although it often takes some degree of extra care.
Bitcoin is more private in that it is possible (arguably even simple) to conjure a pseudonymous identity that remains completely isolated from a human identity, with the caveat that such an identity must deal exclusively in BTC and digital goods, never sending or receiving real world goods (or their deeds) or fiat currency. Bitcoin is less private in that once any goods or currency is exchanged at an interface, and a third party entity (could be a government, could be *anyone*) gains access to knowledge of that transaction, the identity of the *entire* networked history of that transaction is at risk of revelation. This is why ZeroCoin is so critical. |
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MoonShadow
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April 15, 2013, 01:49:50 AM |
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Bitcoin is significantly more private than credit cards. Credit cards, by their nature, are intimately connected to your real world identity. It's literally impossible for them to be private from third parties. With Bitcoin, even as it is, at least some degree of anonimity is possible regarding any person or organization that is not directly part of the transaction, although it often takes some degree of extra care.
Bitcoin is more private in that it is possible (arguably even simple) to conjure a pseudonymous identity that remains completely isolated from a human identity, with the caveat that such an identity must deal exclusively in BTC and digital goods, never sending or receiving real world goods (or their deeds) or fiat currency. Bitcoin is less private in that once any goods or currency is exchanged at an interface, and a third party entity (could be a government, could be *anyone*) gains access to knowledge of that transaction, the identity of the *entire* networked history of that transaction is at risk of revelation. This is why ZeroCoin is so critical. Spoken like a newbie who thinks he has it all figured out. ZeroCoin might have it's place, but it's far from critical. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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jamaer
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April 19, 2013, 06:17:24 AM |
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ZeroCoin might have it's place, but it's far from critical.
Exactly. It's only critical to very few people, but those can continue using a mixing service as they do now. For the rest of us the negative side effects (extra computing power, extra bookkeeping) to the bitcoin network IMO by far outweigt the benefits (zero trust mixing service) in order the proposal to be accepted as it is proposed. But still, an interesting idea maybe something good will come out of it once it's scrutinized and polished by other clever people. |
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lbr
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April 19, 2013, 06:51:28 AM |
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yay, I've used 'ignore' button for the first time ; )
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dbcch0
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May 04, 2013, 03:11:12 AM |
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While I'm sure that the realization (to those who never bothered to learn anything) that every Satoshi you ever spend will, by default, by traceable - and those networks of transactions can serve to identify and profile you - will scare some people, I'm believes that this transparency is important to Bitcoin's survival. For one, it will help to deter government regulation to some degree, as intelligence agencies have a wet dream about building tracing Bitcoins around the network. Two, it serves as a means to verify that taxes have been paid, and deter money laundering.
Zerocoin was wise to make it clear their design allows for a backdoor mechanism. That serves to allow anonymity (e.g. to hide how much you have), while allowing trace-ability by government agencies. It's superior to the Bitcoin mixing services, which are sure to be targeted sooner or later under money laundering laws.
OT: Reading the comments of many here, I am disturbed by the lack of understanding some have. If you're going to be enthusiastic about Bitcoin, you should at least learn its principles. It is not a panacea for all problems with currency and/or all problems in the world. It has many issues of its own, inherent to the design. It also has lots of positive attributes.
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dbcch0
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May 04, 2013, 03:24:23 AM |
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BTW, did anyone notice that the Zercoin anonymity extension was sponsored by the Office of Naval Research, DARPA, and the Air Force Research Laboratory ? Acknowledgements. We thank Stephen Checkoway, George
Danezis, and the anonymous reviewers for their helpful
comments. The research in this paper was supported in part
by the Office of Naval Research under contract N00014-11-
1-0470, and DARPA and the Air Force Research Laboratory
(AFRL) under contract FA8750-11-2-0211.
Interesting ... |
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Eylrid
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May 05, 2013, 02:38:33 AM |
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BTW, did anyone notice that the Zercoin anonymity extension was sponsored by the Office of Naval Research, DARPA, and the Air Force Research Laboratory ? Acknowledgements. We thank Stephen Checkoway, George
Danezis, and the anonymous reviewers for their helpful
comments. The research in this paper was supported in part
by the Office of Naval Research under contract N00014-11-
1-0470, and DARPA and the Air Force Research Laboratory
(AFRL) under contract FA8750-11-2-0211.
Interesting ... Interesting. The Navy was also responsible for Tor. Military has its fair share of uses for privacy. |
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digicoins
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May 05, 2013, 02:44:22 AM |
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Interesting, thanks for sharing
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terrahash
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May 05, 2013, 02:48:12 AM |
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Interesting... a lot of people have been burned by some scrupulous laundry services. This will be really useful.
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Murphant
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May 13, 2013, 04:38:31 AM |
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Interesting... a lot of people have been burned by some scrupulous laundry services. This will be really useful.
Do you have any examples of laundry services that burned their users? I am not surprised that there are some but was unable to find reports of such dishonest mixing services. On another note, there's a presentation on Zerocoin at the Bitcoin 2013 conference this weekend, if anyone wants to go. |
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NullOp
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May 13, 2013, 04:57:48 AM |
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Zerocoin is where there is a pool of coins that are used to replace the original one without traceability to it.
E.G. At some point, if transferring 5.5 BTC to another person, then it could become a zerocoin. Somewhere, 5.5 BTC would come from another location (maybe 5 * 1 BTC and a 0.5 BTC value). The original 5.5 BTC transferred would go to a pool to be used in other transactions.
I'm using the wrong terminology and it has been a while since I read about zerocoin, but since it is a Newb forum, I don't mind posting this for someone to pick it apart.
I like the sounds of zerocoin but wonder if people will have as much faith in something that isn't traceable. Is it possible to code it to give less money out than in and people can't confirm?
If you implement zerocoin in bitcoin and a bug is uncovered, you will cause huge damage. Maybe it should be implemented in an alt coin first. Let it have more use than a test bitcoin network with less financial risk and less bitcoin exposure. Then port to bitcoin.
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Rapunzel
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May 13, 2013, 04:58:36 AM |
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What is the latest with this coin?
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MoonShadow
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May 13, 2013, 05:56:39 PM |
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What is the latest with this coin?
Well, it's not really an alt-coin. It's misnamed, really. ZeroCoin is an adaptation of Bitcoin, like a highly dependent overlay network that establishes a p2p coin laundry/mixer; breaking the chain of custody that is inherent in the normal blockchain. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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sir
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May 13, 2013, 06:20:38 PM |
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Every cryminal will be interested in bitcoin  |
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MoonShadow
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May 13, 2013, 10:39:54 PM |
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Every cryminal will be interested in bitcoin So what? Every criminal I've ever known is very interested in US dollars, too. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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rizzman
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July 01, 2013, 02:59:59 PM |
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Every cryminal will be interested in bitcoin So what? Every criminal I've ever known is very interested in US dollars, too. BAAAAAMMM! +1 More people need to repeat this to the sheeple... |
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galvanbach98
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July 01, 2013, 08:13:24 PM |
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Bitcoin is fine alone. Don't need it.
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thebetis
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July 01, 2013, 08:23:57 PM |
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Of all the ideas that have come up, I like ZeroCoin better than most. It can be built on top of the bitcoin network and that back doors "could" be built doesn't mean they will be. Back doors "could" be built into bitcoin proper, but it won't.
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ILoveCrypto
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July 01, 2013, 08:52:26 PM |
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Thanks for your suggestion. I think bitcoin don't need any help.
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