BFL says ALL SALES FINAL

[smoothie]

Someone PMed me this image. Can someone verify this?

 http://i.imm.io/Zmcl.png

All sales are final? That's different.

SO NO REFUNDS ANYMORE IF YOU ORDER NOW?

[Red_Evil]

prove enough http://products.butterflylabs.com/featured-products/60gh-bitcoin-miner.html

[cedivad]

The chips are fine.

[smoothie]

SO is it true if you order now ALL SALES ARE FINAL??

[ProfMac]

The chips are fine.

Source?

[Vagnavs]

I asked for a refund about a week ago and was given it. A couple days later via my PayPal account. Granted I placed the order in February 2013.
Regards
Brian

[repentance]

This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.

Once they commit to their bulk order, they don't want people cancelling their orders if some new player enters they market who can supply ASICs off the shelf.  While that makes a lot of business sense, "two months or more" is way too vague and I don't think anyone trusts BFL to get on top of their delivery times any time soon - so this may actually discourage new orders as people envisage the nightmare of ordering now and being unable to cancel their orders even if they haven't been fulfilled in 6 months.

Recent communications from Jody to customers requesting refunds have indicated that their new attitude is "all sales are final but we will still consider refund requests on an individual basis".  This is a major shift away from her previous "we understand some of you may not be able to wait - drop us a line if you want a refund" position.  

That said, it's clear that quite a lot of people have relied on the previous refund policy as some kind of hedge and were planning on cancelling their BFL orders if they could acquire ASICs from someone else sooner or if the hash rate rose "too much" before they received their ASICs.  BFL should probably give people with old orders one last chance to cancel before instituting a harsher refund policy and make the no-refund period explicit.

[Surpbitcoin]

FUCK BFL!

 

[smoothie]

This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.

Once they commit to their bulk order, they don't want people cancelling their orders if some new player enters they market who can supply ASICs off the shelf.  While that makes a lot of business sense, "two months or more" is way too vague and I don't think anyone trusts BFL to get on top of their delivery times any time soon - so this may actually discourage new orders as people envisage the nightmare of ordering now and being unable to cancel their orders even if they haven't been fulfilled in 6 months.

Recent communications from Jody to customers requesting refunds have indicated that their new attitude is "all sales are final but we will still consider refund requests on an individual basis".  This is a major shift away from her previous "we understand some of you may not be able to wait - drop us a line if you want a refund" position.  

That said, it's clear that quite a lot of people have relied on the previous refund policy as some kind of hedge and were planning on cancelling their BFL orders if they could acquire ASICs from someone else sooner or if the hash rate rose "too much" before they received their ASICs.  BFL should probably give people with old orders one last chance to cancel before instituting a harsher refund policy and make the no-refund period explicit.

I dont see a working product. Just pictures and boxes of fans. More hot air.

[BaronMcG]

cash flow problems maybe ?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It's being there for a while now (since the site redesign). They might still refund you if you ask.

[repentance]

cash flow problems maybe ?

They're definitely going to run into cash flow problems at some point if the gap between payment and delivery doesn't close significantly.  A combination of mass cancellations and few new orders would hurt them.  Interestingly, their website still says "pre-order now" so they're not in a great position to play the "all sales are final" card.

[smoothie]

cash flow problems maybe ?

THIS. They can't afford to have TOO MANY CUSTOMERS REQUEST REFUNDS. Their little bubble they created would pop.

[Gator-hex]

"It's being there for a while now (since the site redesign). They might still refund you if you ask."

No it hasn't, the evidence of that is on the thread "BFL Fuck Us Over Again"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.260

It was added when they changed the delivery schedule from mid Feb to mid March and that was done today/yesterday.

It does translate as "no refunds".

For those that don't know they built a prototype board and tested it (yesterday/day before), didn't say how it went (despite asking) but they did do a poll of how people would feel if there were less than 4/8 chips but reached MH/s targets, then Luke-Jr was put on a flight over there at BFLs expense.

Make of all that what you will.

[BitcoinINV]

This had to come.  Once they have a working product, new sales are pretty much back orders rather than pre-orders.  Should "two months or more" blow out to 6 months, it's doubtful consumer protection laws would be on the side of BFL, though.

I do not think they would be on bfl's side either
 
As of today there FAQ still says this which some fuel for that fire.

[creativex]

You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.

Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days! 

[BitcoinINV]

Wait I just read it lol.

It says they will be issuing refunds after Jan 1st. So what changed?

[Syke]

Wait I just read it lol.

It says they will be issuing refunds after Jan 1st. So what changed?

Seems the pre-order funds are running low. Gotta stop the refunds asap.

[repentance]

You need not be a lawyer to recognize that their policy is a violation of consumer protection laws in the US. It may be safer for BFL to hold investor pre-order funds hostage, but that doesn't supersede FTC prompt delivery regulations. Regulations which they've been in violation of for months already.

Hey, remember the old "orders will be refundable after 12/31/2012 if we fail to deliver" language? Man, those were the days! 

BFL being in violation of FTC prompt delivery regulations helps customers how?  They can't be directed to deliver a product which doesn't exist.  They can be directed to give refunds but to date they've been doing that voluntarily anyway.  They can likely be fined, but that doesn't directly benefit customers (administrative penalties generally don't).

BFL would argue that failure to request a refund amounted to consent by the customers to the delay.  Customers would argue that they failed to cancel because BFL repeatedly led them to believe that delivery was imminent.

When dealing with regulatory agencies, one of the first questions you need to ask is what you want them to do?  

[PuertoLibre]

cash flow problems maybe ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg1601387#msg1601387