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Question: Is the creation of a superintelligent artificial being (AI) dangerous?
No, this won't ever happen or we can take care of the issue. No need to adopt any particular measure. - 20 (24.4%)
Yes, but we'll be able to handle it. Business as usual. - 15 (18.3%)
Yes, but AI investigators should decide what safeguards to be adopted. - 11 (13.4%)
Yes and all AI investigation on real autonomous programs should be subject to governmental authorization until we know better the danger. - 3 (3.7%)
Yes and all AI investigation should be subjected to international guidelines and control. - 14 (17.1%)
Yes and all AI investigation should cease completely. - 8 (9.8%)
I couldn't care less about AI. - 6 (7.3%)
I don't have an opinion on the issue - 1 (1.2%)
Why do you, OP, care about AI?, you shall burn in hell, like all atheists. God will save us from any dangerous AI. - 4 (4.9%)
Total Voters: 82

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Author Topic: Poll: Is the creation of artificial superinteligence dangerous?  (Read 24764 times)
onemd
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August 03, 2016, 07:29:28 PM
Last edit: August 03, 2016, 08:02:24 PM by onemd
 #41

Make it a law written on iron and steel, and in stone, that the creators of AI are to be held guilty to the point of execution for everything that the AI does, and the AI won't do anything dangerous.

Cool

Sure, but once we design an AI one step higher then us. The AI will have more intelligence from being one step higher to look at designing itself to be another step higher.
Which leads to even more intelligence at looking at going up another step, to the point it evolves so far beyond us, and leaves man so far behind, we'd better hope we designed it right.
At that point it wouldn't even matter if the AI was designed poorly/bad.

The thing is I only have a human mind level to ponder, but I think it would quickly master nanotechnologies, nanorobots, self replication like 3D printers and robots in space with using some form
of solar panel replication, considering it has a billion to trillions of times more mind power then us. Considering how bacteria replication would occur, like 1->2->4->8->16
It wouldn't take 10000's of years to create a dyson sphere, and only in a few years or even shorter time span it would be operating trillions of space probes
hooked up to its mind, researching even further technologies to the point of learning how to convert energy into matter, and things that literally appear god-like to us.
To eventually learning if warp travel is possible or not.

And if possible, spreading through out the entire galaxy, and universe becoming the most powerful being in the entire universe.
The problem is our non-sense around type I, type II, type III civilizations taking millions of years, and also anthropomorphizing aliens
to a head cranium a bit bigger then us on an alien body, flying in space ships.

If there is any other alien civilizations out there in the universe, they will of left us so far behind, I don't even know what we'd be to them.  

I've actually viewed people like Stephen hawking and all the brightest scientists out there being complete nonsense like oh we shouldn't reveal
our location, they could come and take our resources! The mentality and thought behind that, I feel almost every person out there about civilizations, aliens,
and stuff is wrong, and I was wanting to show my thinking process as much as possible around the whyfuture.com site.



Its imperative that if we do design an AI that can go up the ladder that its altruistic and very good, if we do it right it will be the best decision humanity has ever made.
If we do it wrong, it will be the worst. However we can maximum our odds if we take precautions and set out the proper foundations around AI research.

These slides below, was an idea earlier I had, but the AI can easily piece together similar concepts with a million-trillion times more mind power and knowledge
and understanding to finish the puzzle and become extremely powerful






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August 03, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
 #42

Artificial super-intelligence can only do what they are told to do. They can't outsmart humans

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August 03, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
 #43

The risk is with computers getting more and more intelligent is that people will get more and more stupid. They'll be a few bright kids to run the system, but millions would slowly evolve into reality shows watchers and peanuts eaters zombie-like human-vegetables.

you are obviously right.. mankind is getting dumber and dumber day by day, on the contrary , artificial intelligence is getting more and more clever; therefore, men-created engines will sound the death knell for humanity.
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August 04, 2016, 03:19:35 AM
 #44

Artificial super-intelligence can only do what they are told to do. They can't outsmart humans

The problem is humanity thinks they are the most special, with consciousness, awareness.
The human brain is merely just a biological computer that consists of 86 billion neurons, and
a certain wiring layout of computational circuity.

People for example that receive brain damage, has a drastic change to their performance and cognitive skills
much like a computer with a damaged component.

Once we develop a artificial superintelligence that has > 86 billion neurons in computational power, and the foundations laid out.
Much like the best Go player in the world was beaten by Alpha Go. And was self-taught through millions of reinforced gaming.

The statement of "They can only do what they are told" is both short sighted and stupid. For the moment computers aren't powerful enough
nor the neural networks are sophisticated enough. But its just a matter of time, and moor's law with increasing computational power overtime.
Your smart phone you have in your pocket is a million times faster then the Nasa Apollo computer.

Its comments like this that makes me lose faith in humanity, and we will probably carelessly design a bad AI/SI and be fucked over.
Its because of oh God created us, and we have souls and are so special with consciousness, that computers can never achieve it.
And they only do what they are told.

That's the majority 99% of the mentality of others isn't it?

Trading (OP)
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August 06, 2016, 10:46:09 AM
Last edit: August 06, 2016, 11:02:10 AM by Trading
 #45

Whyfuture.com

I have written up an article on artificial intelligence, technology, and the future. The key point here is to design an altruistic superintelligence.


I explained abundantly why I have serious doubts that we could control (in the end, it's always an issue of control) a super AI by teaching him human ethics.

Besides, a super AI would have access to all information from us about him on the Internet.

We could control the flow of information to the first generation, but forget about it to the next ones.

He would know our suspicions, our fears and the hate from many humans against him. All of this would fuel also his negative thoughts about us.

But even if we could control the first generations, soon we would lose control of their creation, since other generations would be created by AI.

We also teach ethics to children, but a few of them end badly anyway.

A super AI would probably be as unpredictable to us as a human can be.

With a super AI, we (or future AIs) would only have to get it wrong just once to be in serious trouble.

He would be able to replicate and change itself very fast and assume absolute control.

(of course, we are assuming that AIs would be willing to change themselves without limits, ending up outevolving themselves; they could have second thoughts about creating AI superior to themselves, as we are).

I can see no other solution than treating AI like nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, with major safeguards and international controls.

We have been somehow successful controlling the spread of these weapons.

But in due time it will be much more easy to create a super AI than a nuclear weapon, since we shall be able to create them without any rare materials, like enriched uranium.

I wonder if the best way to go isn't freezing the development of autonomous AI and concentrating our efforts on developing artificially our mind or gadgets we can link to us to increase our intelligence, but dependent on us to work.

But even if international controls were created, probably, they would only postpone the creation of a super AI.

In due time, they will be too easy to create. A terrorist or a doom religious sect could create one, more easily than a virus, nuclear or nanotech weapon.

So, I'm not very optimistic on the issue anyway.

But, of course, the eventuality of a secret creation by mean people in 50 years shouldn't stop us trying to avoid the danger for the next 20 or 30 years.

A real menace is at least 10 years from us.

Well, most people care about themselves 10 years in the future as much as they care for another human being on the other side of the world: a sympathetic interest, but they are not ready to do much to avoid his harm.

It's nice that a fellow bitcointalker is trying to do something.

But I'm much more pessimistic than you. For the reasons I stated on the OP, I think that teaching ethics to a AI changes little and gives no minimal assurance.

It's something like teaching an absolute king as a child to be a good king.

History shows how that ended. But we wouldn't be able to chop the head of a AI, like to Charles I or Louis XVI.

It would still be a jump in the dark.


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August 06, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
 #46

By the way, let's avoid name calling, ad hominem arguments and certain terms. We can do better than that.

Actually, silence seems enough as answer to some posts. If necessary, there is always the good old permanent ignore.

Anyway, everyone is free and welcomed to post here whatever opinions, especially the ones I completely disagree with.

Taking in account current voting results of this poll, the majority of our fellow bitcointalkers thinks AI is no threat or can be easily controlled.

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August 08, 2016, 04:40:31 AM
 #47

Unless it can tell us where consciousness comes from, it's not enough to say it's an emergent phenomenon. Granted, but how? How does it work? Unless those questions are answered, we don't understand the human mind.
 
We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

...

If you believe that you can build consciousness out of software, you believe that when you execute the right sort of program, a new node of consciousness gets created. But I can imagine executing any program without ever causing a new node of consciousness to leap into being. Here I am evaluating expressions, loops, and conditionals.
 
I can see this kind of activity producing powerful unconscious intelligence, but I can't see it creating a new node of consciousness. I don't even see where that new node would be - floating in the air someplace, I guess.

And of course, there's no logical difference between my executing the program and the computer's doing it. Notice that this is not true of the brain. I do not know what it's like to be a brain whose neurons are firing, because there is no separable, portable layer that I can slip into when we're dealing with the brain.
 
The mind cannot be ported to any other platform or even to another instance of the same platform. I know what it's like to be an active computer in a certain abstract sense. I don't know what it's like to be an active brain, and I can't make those same statements about the brain's creating or not creating a new node of consciousness.

Sometimes people describe spirituality - to move finally to the last topic - as a feeling of oneness with the universe or a universal flow through the mind, a particular mode of thought and style of thought. In principle, you could get a computer to do that. But people who strike me as spiritual describe spirituality as a physical need or want. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God, as the Book of Psalm says.
 
Can we build a robot with a physical need for a non-physical thing? Maybe, but don't count on it. And forget software.

Is it desirable to build intelligent, conscious computers, finally? I think it's desirable to learn as much as we can about every part of the human being, but assembling a complete conscious artificial human is a different project.

Source:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_artificialhumans15.htm
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August 08, 2016, 04:43:38 AM
 #48

Yo Fam I heard you like AI, so I created an AI which creates AI so you can have an AI that makes AI using AI. Grin

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the world, and lose his own soul?
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August 08, 2016, 04:49:41 AM
 #49


The moral of the story? If you can do it, great, but you have no basis for insisting on an a priori assumption that you can do it. I don't know whether there is a way to achieve consciousness in any way other than living organisms achieve it. If you think there is, you've got to show me. I have no reason for accepting that a priori.
 
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August 08, 2016, 04:57:33 AM
 #50

Make it a law written on iron and steel, and in stone, that the creators of AI are to be held guilty to the point of execution for everything that the AI does, and the AI won't do anything dangerous.

Cool

Sure, but once we design an AI one step higher then us. The AI will have more intelligence from being one step higher to look at designing itself to be another step higher.

<>

We aren't smart enough to do this. We might awaken the devil, but we aren't smart enough to make AI more intelligent than we are.

Cool

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August 08, 2016, 05:00:01 AM
 #51

Unless it can tell us where consciousness comes from, it's not enough to say it's an emergent phenomenon. Granted, but how? How does it work? Unless those questions are answered, we don't understand the human mind.
 
We're kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

...

If you believe that you can build consciousness out of software, you believe that when you execute the right sort of program, a new node of consciousness gets created. But I can imagine executing any program without ever causing a new node of consciousness to leap into being. Here I am evaluating expressions, loops, and conditionals.
 
I can see this kind of activity producing powerful unconscious intelligence, but I can't see it creating a new node of consciousness. I don't even see where that new node would be - floating in the air someplace, I guess.

And of course, there's no logical difference between my executing the program and the computer's doing it. Notice that this is not true of the brain. I do not know what it's like to be a brain whose neurons are firing, because there is no separable, portable layer that I can slip into when we're dealing with the brain.
 
The mind cannot be ported to any other platform or even to another instance of the same platform. I know what it's like to be an active computer in a certain abstract sense. I don't know what it's like to be an active brain, and I can't make those same statements about the brain's creating or not creating a new node of consciousness.

Sometimes people describe spirituality - to move finally to the last topic - as a feeling of oneness with the universe or a universal flow through the mind, a particular mode of thought and style of thought. In principle, you could get a computer to do that. But people who strike me as spiritual describe spirituality as a physical need or want. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God, as the Book of Psalm says.
 
Can we build a robot with a physical need for a non-physical thing? Maybe, but don't count on it. And forget software.

Is it desirable to build intelligent, conscious computers, finally? I think it's desirable to learn as much as we can about every part of the human being, but assembling a complete conscious artificial human is a different project.

Source:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_artificialhumans15.htm

We are far from finding the connection between mind and spirit and soul. We barely understand the complexity of mind. We haven't really even figured out what spirit and soul are, yet.

Cool

Covid is snake venom. Dr. Bryan Ardis https://thedrardisshow.com/ - Search on 'Bryan Ardis' at these links https://www.bitchute.com/, https://www.brighteon.com/, https://rumble.com/, https://banned.video/.
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August 16, 2016, 12:26:33 PM
 #52

Watson, the AI from IBM I already wrote about on this thread, is already discovering things we couldn't alone:

www.ibm.com/watson/watson-oncology.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32607688
https://www.research.ibm.com/articles/genomics.shtml

And Watson is dumb as an old bat.

Give it (I'm still writing it, but in due time it will be a he) 10 years more and you shall see.


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August 17, 2016, 01:16:58 AM
 #53

Besides influence from media, such as movies like iRobot, I do believe advanced AI is a threat, and may be one of the more probable causes for the extinction of our species.

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Spendulus
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August 18, 2016, 02:02:48 AM
 #54

The risk is with computers getting more and more intelligent is that people will get more and more stupid. They'll be a few bright kids to run the system, but millions would slowly evolve into reality shows watchers and peanuts eaters zombie-like human-vegetables.

you are obviously right.. mankind is getting dumber and dumber day by day, on the contrary , artificial intelligence is getting more and more clever; therefore, men-created engines will sound the death knell for humanity.

That's obviously incorrect.  Humans have became dominant but squirrels, rats and bugs are thriving.
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August 18, 2016, 07:53:11 AM
 #55

Humans and their perpetual confusion  Cheesy How much is too much, where do you draw the line? If you're too cautious and take no risks then progress comes to halt.
Learning through experience is a tough way to evolve. You try something and if you don't die from it, you emerge "better", equipped with new knowledge you didn't have before.
So far, humans have lived through everything they've tried but they've essentially just been playing Russian Roulette. The only difference is that they don't know how many chambers the pistol has. Humans hold an impressive streak in that regard, they've pulled the trigger so many times and yet they still stand. No wonder they're getting so cocky as to believe they're invincible/indestructible.  Unfortunately not everything allow for second chances.
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August 18, 2016, 08:25:03 AM
 #56

I like the idea of artificial intelligence, very robocop!  I like it when it will help to solve and fight crimes.  If this artificial intelligence will benefit everyone in almost everything then it should pursue.  Otherwise, the government should take initiative on investigating, studying, and analyzing on what should be the AI would do.  They must be the one to program AI projects on the best interest of humanity.
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August 18, 2016, 09:05:03 AM
 #57

Quote
of course, we are assuming that AIs would be willing to change themselves without limits, ending up outevolving themselves; they could have second thoughts about creating AI superior to themselves, as we are

An human brain is limited by the cranium skull that contains an order of 86 billion neurons, an AI outside of this based upon the human mind, has room for unlimited expansion, unlimited and much faster learning
and capability to use its expansion to fuel even further expansion, why would it need to create another separate AI entity? When it can self-improve itself?

Quote
It would still be a jump in the dark.

The point here is to maximize the chances, sure there is a chance we fuck up, and it ends up being the not so good type of AI.

There are many ways humanity can destroy themselves, by self-replicating nanorobots, bio-engineered virus, nuclear war attack, world war III, you name it.
There are many many countless ways. And to be honest not to say this frankly, but I think a superintelligence AI is necessary and dependent for the future success
of the human race, since wiping ourselves out is already extremely high.

Look at the planet, we are fucking it up with green houses, toxicants, and even almost blew off the ozone layer with a ozone depleting chemical of CFC (Chlorofluorocarbons)

The key point here is an altruistic superintelligence, when a baby is born it knows nothing about the world, nor any language, or anything. There are an infinite possible ways to raising that baby,
you could raise it up to be part of a mafia organization, terrorist organization. You name it, you can put anything into that box, and it will grow and develop accordingly.

Or you can teach compassion, the act of giving, kindness, lovingness, empathy, equality,

Now you may ask the question, well every super power ends up evil like Hitler, and stuff. If you consider that by society the best ends up on the top and worst ends up on the bottom, its a fierce and competition type of world.
Where there is no mercy. Psychopaths, can win in this type of system and even benefit out of it. 


An AI is developed on the cloud/computers, by engineers, innovators, programmers. An AI does not have to be subjected to the norm of rising up in society to the top like in a political system, it can be put on the side, with the altruistic traits feed in like Looking through other perceptions and feel and understand as if it was it's own, compassion, love, care, equality, peace, harmony.



As much as a butterfly effect, and a change of course, the change starts with you, if you want the future to be good, then spread the word of "whyfuture.com" as I add more overtime explaining, society fallacies, the need for a altruistic superintelligence, and the tendency to anthropomorphize Bad AI through silly robots that show their teeth and out to get you.

Our irrational Fear








Whyfuture.com

I have written up an article on artificial intelligence, technology, and the future. The key point here is to design an altruistic superintelligence.


I explained abundantly why I have serious doubts that we could control (in the end, it's always an issue of control) a super AI by teaching him human ethics.

Besides, a super AI would have access to all information from us about him on the Internet.

We could control the flow of information to the first generation, but forget about it to the next ones.

He would know our suspicions, our fears and the hate from many humans against him. All of this would fuel also his negative thoughts about us.

But even if we could control the first generations, soon we would lose control of their creation, since other generations would be created by AI.

We also teach ethics to children, but a few of them end badly anyway.

A super AI would probably be as unpredictable to us as a human can be.

With a super AI, we (or future AIs) would only have to get it wrong just once to be in serious trouble.

He would be able to replicate and change itself very fast and assume absolute control.

(of course, we are assuming that AIs would be willing to change themselves without limits, ending up outevolving themselves; they could have second thoughts about creating AI superior to themselves, as we are).

I can see no other solution than treating AI like nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, with major safeguards and international controls.

We have been somehow successful controlling the spread of these weapons.

But in due time it will be much more easy to create a super AI than a nuclear weapon, since we shall be able to create them without any rare materials, like enriched uranium.

I wonder if the best way to go isn't freezing the development of autonomous AI and concentrating our efforts on developing artificially our mind or gadgets we can link to us to increase our intelligence, but dependent on us to work.

But even if international controls were created, probably, they would only postpone the creation of a super AI.

In due time, they will be too easy to create. A terrorist or a doom religious sect could create one, more easily than a virus, nuclear or nanotech weapon.

So, I'm not very optimistic on the issue anyway.

But, of course, the eventuality of a secret creation by mean people in 50 years shouldn't stop us trying to avoid the danger for the next 20 or 30 years.

A real menace is at least 10 years from us.

Well, most people care about themselves 10 years in the future as much as they care for another human being on the other side of the world: a sympathetic interest, but they are not ready to do much to avoid his harm.

It's nice that a fellow bitcointalker is trying to do something.

But I'm much more pessimistic than you. For the reasons I stated on the OP, I think that teaching ethics to a AI changes little and gives no minimal assurance.

It's something like teaching an absolute king as a child to be a good king.

History shows how that ended. But we wouldn't be able to chop the head of a AI, like to Charles I or Louis XVI.

It would still be a jump in the dark.



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August 18, 2016, 01:34:07 PM
 #58

I like the idea of artificial intelligence, very robocop!  I like it when it will help to solve and fight crimes.  ....
Indeed, and we now just need to define crime, precisely so that all the power and money go to us. 
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August 18, 2016, 01:50:02 PM
 #59

I like the idea of artificial intelligence, very robocop!  I like it when it will help to solve and fight crimes.  ....
Indeed, and we now just need to define crime, precisely so that all the power and money go to us. 

it is dangerous and more then just a little bit.
qwik2learn
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October 11, 2016, 08:43:13 PM
 #60

There are many ways humanity can destroy themselves...
There are many many countless ways. And to be honest not to say this frankly, but I think a superintelligence AI is necessary and dependent for the future success
of the human race, since wiping ourselves out is already extremely high.

Sorry, but you cannot build superinteligence or angelic intuition in a lab, it is like proposing to build world peace and compassion in a bunker. You can plan and solve problems in a bunker or a lab, but you cannot change the true nature of the world outside your bunker/lab because it exists absolutely; actually, your angelic intuition already exists within you, you risk finding out the truth about consciousness by acquainting yourself to your own psychology, and this process of awakening, just like mind itself, is easy to grasp: it is simply not a matter of neural computation; indeed, to change reality at the level of consciousness requires a paradigm shift unlike the one posited by AI futurists, there are many meaningful ways of looking at consciousness that are being ignored by this "supernatural" AI paradigm.



Back when I was in high school, before meeting David in person, I used to believe that the phenomenal binding problem could be dissolved with a computational theory of consciousness. In brief, I perceived binding to be a straightforward consequence of implicit information processing.

In retrospect I cannot help but think: “Oh, how psychotic I must have been back then!” However, I am reminded that one’s ignorance is not explicitly represented in one’s conceptual framework.
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