The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud truffa

[Coinfan]

Fellow bitcoiners:

All order books of The Rock Trading exchange are completely fake, created by their own bot, to mislead their customers. They then manipulate the order book to crash their own exchange and force their panicking customers to sell their bitcoins on the low buy orders created by their own bot for lack of alternative. Sometimes, they manage to buy their customers crypto at about half of the international price. This is a complete scam!. See evidence
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg57997246#msg57997246
They also used these fake orderbooks and volume to sell 10% of their scamming exchange on a crowdfunding for 1.5 millions: https://web.archive.org/web/20210121163154/https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding-the-rock-trading-exchange-di-criptovalute/

Tutti gli order book della borsa The Rock Trading sono completamente falsi, creati dal loro stesso bot, per ingannare i loro clienti. Poi manipolano il libro degli ordini per far crollare il loro stesso scambio e costringere i loro clienti in preda al panico a vendere i loro bitcoin sugli ordini di acquisto bassi creati dal loro stesso bot per mancanza di alternative. A volte, riescono a comprare i loro clienti crypto a circa la metà del prezzo internazionale. Questa è una truffa completa! Vedere le prove
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg57997246#msg57997246

Hanno anche usato questi finti registri di ordini e volumi per vendere il 10% del loro scambio truffaldino su un crowdfunding per 1,5 milioni: https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding/




Think twice before creating an account on the Rock Trading Exchange, even if you get a free invitation code, without reading the below short summary and also seeing the Rock CFO ratings:
See them here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg54139648#msg54139648

Please support the flags against the Rock CFO eliale and Rock CTO paci to help warn about them:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=207
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=493

and give them negative feedback:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35172
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=15648

Vedi in basso uno riassunto aggiornato

Short updated summary
I. On December 2017, they blocked covertly against n. 8.4 of their TOS the withdrawals on my account with 35519 euro and this is going on for more than 4 years. The Rock Trading CFO confirmed the facts here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
But they didn't blocked trading or deposits and, unaware, I entrapped more money during 2018.
II. On August 2018, when I asked for a bitcoin withdrawal, they demanded a copy of personal documents as pretext for the block, but their FAQ said "Verification is not mandatory”
III. On May 2019, they changed their FAQ (but not their TOS, confirming it's a scam change) to hide this. Check its text on November 2018 (on end part of page): https://archive.fo/BNSfb
Also here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105
IV. The Rock CFO confessed they are going to keep the money "forever": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
V. He wrote that they wouldn't respect an arbitrage decision on the case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
VI. He posted almost all private information they had from my account here on bitcointalk as petty revenge, including first name: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815
VII. After confessing the amount several times, hiding behind an alt account, the Rock CFO started denying the 35500 euro: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg54406770#msg54406770 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.520 (evidence that is an alt account)
VIII. Italian Act 231/2007 changed by Act 90/2017 doesn't demand verification of identity for bitcoin withdrawals (article 3, n. 5, i) and, in any case, says that if exchange can't verify identity must close the account (article 42, n. 1) and so return the money: https://www.organismo-am.it/documenti/Normativa/D.lgs.%2025%20maggio%202017%20n.%2090.pdf (italian)
IX. They paid 13 fake positive reviews on their Facebook account on 28 September and 2 October 2019: https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheRockTrading/reviews/
X. No one logged on my account on almost 4 years, I own the banking account they have on file since 2013 and signed a bitcoin message with the last address used to make a deposit:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058
XI. On 28 October 2020, after being confronted with my case by a crowdfunding company that allowed them to raise 1.5 million euros (https://web.archive.org/web/20210121163154/https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding-the-rock-trading-exchange-di-criptovalute/), the Rock CFO was forced to make a complaint against me to try to play the honest victim. That was crazy, so he invented a false motive for the block, lied that the block was a full block and not a secret one of the withdrawals only and hided the change on their FAQ after the facts. Lying to the police is a crime under Italian Law: check the evidence and full details here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55687075#msg55687075
He also published the lying complain, which is also a crime:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55567763#msg55567763
XII. On 2021, the Rock Trading CFO closed my account and claimed several times he had sent my money to a third party and that he had no control over the money, but he didn't disclose the identity of the third party. Now, he confessed he just sent the money to a segregated account and that he fully controls it. This new lie was a clear fraud just to keep the money blocked. See evidence here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg57060338#msg57060338
XIII) The Rock CFO is planning a second round of crowdfunding scam, as he announced recently, taking advantage of the fake volume and orderbooks above denounced:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg59434554#msg59434554


ITALIANO
Controlla il feedback di Rock CFO eliale:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg54139648#msg54139648
Breve riassunto aggiornato
I. Nel dicembre 2017, hanno bloccato segretamente contro il n. 8.4 del loro TOS i prelievi sul mio conto con 35519 euro e questo va avanti da più di 3 anni. Il CFO di Rock Trading ha confermato i fatti qui: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
Ma non hanno bloccato il trading o i depositi e, ignaro, ho intrappolato altri soldi durante il 2018.
II. Nell'agosto 2018, quando ho chiesto un prelievo di bitcoin, hanno chiesto una copia dei documenti personali come pretesto per il blocco, ma le loro FAQ dicevano "La verifica non è obbligatoria"
III. Il maggio 2019, hanno cambiato le loro FAQ (ma non il loro TOS, confermando è un cambiamento di truffa) per nascondere questo. Controlla il suo testo su novembre 2018 (nella parte finale della pagina): https://archive.fo/BNSfb
Also here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105
IV. Il CFO di Rock ha confessato che hanno intenzione di tenere i soldi "per sempre": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158
V. Ha scritto che non rispetterebbero una decisione di arbitraggio sul caso: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
VI. Ha postato quasi tutte le informazioni private che avevano dal mio account qui su bitcointalk come vendetta meschina, incluso il nome: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815
VII. Dopo aver confessato l'importo più volte, nascondendosi dietro un account alt, il CFO di Rock ha iniziato a negare i 35500 euro: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg54406770#msg54406770
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.520 (prova che è un account alt)
VIII. La legge italiana 231/2007 modificata dalla legge 90/2017 non richiede la verifica dell'identità per i prelievi di bitcoin (articolo 3, n. 5, i) e, in ogni caso, dice che se lo scambio non può verificare l'identità deve chiudere il conto (articolo 42, n. 1) e quindi restituire i soldi: https://www.organismo-am.it/documenti/Normativa/D.lgs.%2025%20maggio%202017%20n.%2090.pdf
IX. Dopo una denuncia penale e vari altri reclami contro il Rock Trading, è imminente una decisione di un'autorità italiana.
X. Hanno pagato 13 false recensioni positive sul loro account Facebook il 28 settembre e il 2 ottobre 2019: https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheRockTrading/reviews/
XI. Nessuno è entrato nel mio account su quasi 2 anni, possiedo il conto bancario che hanno in archivio dal 2013 e ho firmato un messaggio bitcoin con l'ultimo indirizzo usato per fare un deposito:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058
XII. Il 28 ottobre 2020, dopo essere stato confrontato con il mio caso da una società di crowdfunding che ha permesso loro di raccogliere 1,5 milioni di euro (https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding/), il CFO di Rock è stato costretto a fare una denuncia contro di me per cercare di fare la vittima onesta. Era una follia, così ha inventato un falso motivo per il blocco, ha mentito che il blocco era un blocco completo e non uno segreto dei soli prelievi e ha nascosto il cambiamento sulle loro FAQ dopo i fatti. Mentire alla polizia è un reato per la legge italiana: controlla le prove e tutti i dettagli qui: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55687075#msg55687075
Ha anche pubblicato la denuncia di menzogna, che è anche un reato:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55567763#msg55567763
XIII. Il 2021, il CFO della Rock Trading ha chiuso il mio conto e ha affermato più volte di aver inviato i miei soldi a una terza parte e di non avere alcun controllo sul denaro, ma non ha rivelato l'identità della terza parte. Ora, ha confessato di aver appena inviato il denaro in un conto segregato e che lo controlla completamente. Questa nuova bugia era una chiara frode solo per mantenere il denaro bloccato. Vedi le prove qui: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg57060338#msg57060338
XIV. La Rock Exchange ha un bot che fa trading con se stesso sui loro mercati principali per creare un falso volume e programmato per creare ordini multipli per fingere un order book stretto per ingannare i loro clienti. Ma in caso di un calo del prezzo internazionale, tutti gli ordini di mercato sono sostituiti da ordini di offerta molto più bassi del prezzo internazionale permettendo alla Rock di trarre profitto dai clienti spaventati. Questa è una truffa! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg57647531#msg57647531
XV) Il CFO della Rock sta pianificando un secondo round di crowdfunding, come ha annunciato di recente:
https://www.cryptocoinference.com/2022/01/17/the-rock-trading-e-main-sponsor-della-terza-edizione-di-crypto-coinference/




This thread is protected by article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights ("Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information") and, according to Italian lawyers, also by article 21 of the Italian Constitution and article 51 of the Italian Criminal Code (see http://diritto-penale.it/exceptio-veritatis.htm)

Questa pubblicazione è protetta dall'articolo 10 della Convenzione europea dei diritti dell'uomo ("Ogni individuo ha diritto alla libertà di espressione. Tale diritto comprende la libertà di opinione e la libertà di ricevere e di comunicare informazioni") e, secondo i giuristi italiani, anche dall'articolo 21 della Costituzione italiana e dall'articolo 51 del Codice penale.



Details.

Latest news:

The Rock Trading managed to get 1.5 million euros on a crowdfunding raise of capital using Opstart (https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding/). But Opstart confronted the Rock CFO with this case, so in order to mislead it, on 28 October 2020, after more than 2 years of attempts to keep my money "forever", the Rock CFO presented a complain against me for "defamation" (really!) to try to look honest.

This was a crazy decision, so he lied in order to hide his actions:
I) He lied about the motive, saying that they blocked my account because it was dormant between 2014 and 2017. I have the full history of constant trading between 2014 and 2 march 2018. Check scans of Rock support tickets opened on December 2014 and 2017 and trading during December 2016 and on several months of 2017:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55687075#msg55687075
Furthermore, the Rock CTO Paci and the Rock support system contradicted him, as each one invented his own illegal pretext for the block and never mentioned any dormant status lie. Check on the above link a scan of the August 2018 ticket.

II) He said that they blocked the full functionality of the account in the beginning of 2018. He tries to hide that they only blocked covertly the withdrawals and left me trading and even entrapping more money for months, ignorant of the block. They only blocked completely the account on 2020. The Rock CFO confirmed this on a post of 26 June 2019, saying that "aside withdraws, the account is operative": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51615058#msg51615058
Furthermore, the quoted 2018 support ticket answer says about granting withdrawals, which confirms also that the account was operative, except the blocked withdrawals.

Lying on a judicial proceeding (on a complain against his victim!!) is a crime under article 374 bis of Italian Criminal Code.

III) He published the complain (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55567763#msg55567763)
which in itself is also a crime, under article 684 of Italian Criminal Code and article 329 of the Italian code of criminal process, as confirmed by a high Italian court.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55970022#msg55970022
Of course, he also committed more breaches of privacy, by revealing illegally and unnecessarily again private information, including first name, gender and nationality.

IV) More lies he told: He said to the police they knew nothing about my case and that they had to go check all accounts to realize what my thread was about!! When I opened a ticket against their covert block and they received full information in August 2018, a few days before I created this thread.

V) He told the police that he tried to identify the owner by all means possible.
The Rock CFO never tried to contact the emails associated with the Rock accounts.
He received an email from an email account registered with the Rock Trading, signed with the names they have on file. He completely ignored the email for months. When he finally answered to confirm the identity, his only reaction was posting here in this forum almost all the private information he confirmed.


Il Rock Trading è riuscito ad ottenere 1,5 milioni di euro su una raccolta di capitale di crowdfunding utilizzando Opstart (https://www.opstart.it/progetto/digital-rock-holding/). Ma Opstart ha confrontato il Rock CFO con questo caso, quindi per fuorviarlo, il 28 ottobre 2020, dopo più di 2 anni di tentativi di tenere i miei soldi "per sempre", il Rock CFO ha presentato una denuncia contro di me per "diffamazione" (davvero!) per cercare di sembrare onesto.
È stata una decisione folle, quindi ha mentito per nascondere le sue azioni:
I) Ha mentito sul motivo, dicendo che hanno bloccato il mio conto perché era dormiente tra il 2014 e il 2017. Ho tutta la storia di trading costante tra il 2014 e il 2 marzo 2018. Controlla le scansioni dei biglietti di supporto Rock aperti nel dicembre 2014 e 2017 e il trading nel dicembre 2016 e in diversi mesi del 2017:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55687075#msg55687075
Inoltre, il CTO Paci del Rock e il sistema di supporto del Rock lo contraddicevano, poiché ognuno di loro ha inventato il proprio pretesto illegale per il blocco e non ha mai menzionato alcuna bugia di stato dormiente. Controlla sul link sopra una scansione del biglietto dell'agosto 2018.
II) Ha detto che hanno bloccato la piena funzionalità del conto all'inizio del 2018. Cerca di nascondere che hanno bloccato solo di nascosto i prelievi e mi hanno lasciato fare trading e anche intrappolare più soldi per mesi, ignorando il blocco. Hanno bloccato completamente il conto solo nel 2020. Il CFO di Rock lo ha confermato in un post del 26 giugno 2019, dicendo che "a parte i prelievi, il conto è operativo": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51615058#msg51615058
Inoltre, la citata risposta del biglietto di supporto del 2018 dice sulla concessione dei prelievi, che conferma anche che il conto era operativo, ma per i prelievi bloccati.
Mentire su un procedimento giudiziario (su una denuncia contro la sua vittima!!!) è un reato ai sensi dell'articolo 374 bis del Codice Penale.
III) Ha pubblicato il reclamo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55567763#msg55567763)
che di per sé è anche un reato, ai sensi dell'art. 684 c.p. e dell'art. 329 c.p., come confermato da un'alta corte italiana.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg55970022#msg55970022
Naturalmente, ha anche commesso altre violazioni della privacy, rivelando illegalmente e inutilmente di nuovo informazioni private, tra cui nome, sesso e nazionalità.
IV) Altre menzogne che ha detto: Ha detto alla polizia che non sapevano nulla del mio caso e che dovevano andare a controllare tutti i conti per capire di cosa trattava il mio filo! Quando ho aperto un biglietto contro il loro blocco segreto e hanno ricevuto informazioni complete nell'agosto del 2018, pochi giorni prima che creassi questo thread .
V) Ha detto alla polizia che ha cercato di identificare il proprietario con tutti i mezzi possibili.
Il CFO della Rock non ha mai provato a contattare le email associate agli account della Rock.
Ha ricevuto un'email da un account email registrato con il Rock Trading, firmato con i nomi che hanno in archivio. Ha completamente ignorato l'email per mesi. Quando finalmente ha risposto per confermare l'identità, la sua unica reazione è stata postare qui in questo forum quasi tutte le informazioni private che ha confermato.



Extended summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they covertly blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, on December 2017!, about 2 years ago (see balance scan below).

II) They refused several times to explain why. Now they wrote it was because the account was "dormant". Which is a complete lie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51377323#msg51377323

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping more money with a deposit and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block against what article 8.4 of their own TOS demands. This is fraud and a scam.
https://therocktrading.com/en/pages/terms-and-conditions

IV) When I complained on August 2018, they demanded my documents against what their FAQ said "verification isn't mandatory" and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary. They removed this reference to the voluntary nature of verification probably on 16 may 2019, which is another confession that they are breaching it. But the original version is conserved here as it was on 2 November 2018: https://archive.fo/BNSfb
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding my documents again.

VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they lied about an applicable european directive. But they know that the IV AML Directive isn't applicable to crypto exchanges. And the V AML Directive isn't applicable until Italy converts it into Italian Law. Moreover, even the V AML Directive only applies to crypto when there is fiat conversion/withdrawal. I only want to withdraw bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51753117#msg51753117

VIII) Italian Law, Legislative Decree No. 231/2007, as emended by Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, i), says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I never asked for fiat withdrawal
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50490829#msg50490829

IX) They confessed they are ready to keep my money "forever" (cit), under the pretext of the illegal KYC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158

X) For months they kept raising abusive suspicious about my ownership against the overwhelming evidence, which is a fact confirming that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money blocked. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would invent another pretext.

XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


XII) This is now on the european arbitrage system and on an Italian Financial Arbitrator, after a complaint with full disclose of identity with the same names they have on file. This was confirmed by a banking transfer to pay for the complaint cost and by documents sent. There is no longer any anonymity, but they still refuse to return my money.

XIII)They confessed several times that there isn't any security reason and that they know that the money is mine.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50381769#msg50381769
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50353964#msg50353964

XiV) They also confessed that if they lose the case they are not going to respect the decision of the Arbitrator to release my money: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50344427#msg50344427

XV) Beware, the Rock CFO wrote he is ready to do to every unverified customer what they are doing to me, even without changing their own TOS:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50060106#msg50060106 (translation and comment)

XVI) They breached their duty to respect the privacy of their customers and account security. They published here on bitcointalk almost all the personal details they had, including first name, nationality, gender, banking relations on a EU country:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg49989828#msg49989828 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815

XVII) They confessed that they are not acting under their TOS/FAQ or italian law (so, they accept that they are breaching both) but claim to be "anticipating" the V AML European Directive that they know isn't applicable in Italy until converted in Italian Law:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg50016475#msg50016475 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50528161#msg50528161 (translation and comment)

XVIII) On July 2019, long after the block of my account, they inserted a new sentence on their FAQ: "If your account is unverified you will not be able to trade, deposit or withdraw cryptocurrencies and/or euro."
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64
They are trying to "clean" now acts they done on December 2017 and August 2018! The authorities will see this as a clear confession of the illegality of these acts. Only changes FAQ the ones who breached them!

XIX) They paid for 13 positive reviews on their Facebook page, all made on about 1h, on 28 September and 2 October 2019. This is a fraud and confirms what kind of people manages the Rock Trading.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheRockTrading/reviews/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg52863951#msg52863951

XX) the Rock CFO (with his new account Marco777) denied for the first time in almost 2 years of public fight the amount of 35519 euros he is trying to keep "forever" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg54406770#msg54406770 italian). Which is something that only someone with scam intentions would do. He had confirmed the 35500 euros before:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50365334#msg50365334
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50346052#msg50346052

XXI) They confirmed the main facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account with the account number (IBAN) the Rock Trading has on file.

VIII) There is a coincidence between the two names on file with the Rock and names on the complaint to the Arbitrator.

IX) I signed a message with a bitcoin address used to make a deposit on the Rock Trading in 1 June 2017: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058

X) More than one year passed since this public conflict started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money. I told them I wouldn't login again and no one has login on the account for about 1 year




More details (not updated):
 therock selective scammers


I have been an unverified customer of The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) for 7 years.

Currently I have there 35519 euros (and 99 XRPs). Check a scan of my euro balance.



You can confirm the scan was made on 16 August 2018. Check the 2018 on the market graphic and the date on the last trade on the market, on the top right.

If you have no time to read everything, jump to the conclusions below:

The Rock is owned by two forum members:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Since June or July 2014, their FAQ states clearly: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The CFO Eliale assured me on a July 2014 email that as long as I didn’t request a fiat deposit or withdrawal after this change, I didn’t have to verify my account.

However, on January or early February 2018, after I sold my bitcoins and ended with a high balance, they blocked all my ways to withdraw, including all crypto.

But they didn't told me anything about the block or about any problem. They let me keep obliviously trading/paying fees and making deposits for months. After the block, I even made a new deposit on 21 February 2018.

When I finally complained, instead of apologizing for the problem, they kept the block and demanded me to verify my account by sending my personal documents, with contradictory, absurd and against their own TOS and FAQ justifications.

Their TOS is very clear: they can only demand verification from current unverified customers if there is an “anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account” (see point 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).

They didn’t even try to substantiate any suspicious transaction.
   
   And, in case of any block, point 8.4 of their own TOS demands them to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process”.
   But they are blocking my withdrawals for months and didn’t even inform me that the block was intentional and that there was a problem. I had to go to them.

And they know perfectly well the origin of my money: trading on their exchange for the last 7 years.

See full details about their TOS here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

   
Confirming this illegal and very suspicious act, their CFO refused several times to explain what facts made them block my account, keep silent about it for months and demand verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110




On his email of 21 August 2018, the CTO Paci wrote that I didn’t had to send any personal documents: “BTW, is there any particular problems in providing some documents, if
I may ask? [ ] Anyway, feel free to not do it, if you wish so.”

But he added a very suspicious sentence: “Just be aware that our
support team will try other methods to check that the request to
withdraw is coming from the legitimate owner of the account, but that will
require much more time until we feel almost 100% secure.”.

They had no other way to verify on their own that I’m the legitimate owner beside the many ones I gave them.

Much less a way that is going to “require much more time”.

They have been blocking my withdrawals for at least 6 months and they are demanding more time?

They have no reason to suspect that I’m not the legitimate owner and I gave then even more evidence of this.

All the facts I describe on this post were confirmed by The Rock Exchange here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


Why I’m unwilling to send them my documents:



I) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer with full access to bitcoin deposits and withdrawals (but not fiat ones). They gave contradictory or against their TOS/FAQ explications and they are refusing to explain publicly why they are asking for my documents.

II) It's very risky to give a copy of our documents to anyone, especially using the Internet. One of their employees can make a copy, sell it or use it on some criminal activity or they might be hacked and then I'll end in trouble.

III) They blocked my bitcoin withdrawals for months without even informing me and violated clearly their TOS and FAQ and their personal word. They are doing exactly what scam exchanges usually do. I certainly won't trust them my documents.

IV) Since they blocked my bitcoin withdrawals covertly and violated their TOS and FAQ and disrespected the personal assurance they gave me that they wouldn't ask for my documents, they are acting on (to say the very least) a very suspicious way:  there is a very big risk that they won't release my funds after I send them my documents. Scam exchanges do this all the time. They just invent another pretext to keep the money. Someone who disrespects his word once, will do it again without problems.

VI) Because they are blackmailing me for sending my documents and holding illegally my money, I was forced to give large publicity to the way they acted and are acting. This is affecting their reputation. If I sent my documents and they didn’t release my money, any further publicity to their acts could make them use my documents on illegal ways as retaliation.

VII) They kept raising doubts about my ownership of the money here on this thread against all evidence, suggesting I'm an hacker or some sort of criminal, lying about the Law applicable and their TOS meaning, which confirms that they are acting in bad faith and that I can't trust them with my documents.




Conclusions:

Since I have unquestionable evidence that I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts, so I’m going to measure my words and let you take your own conclusions.

I)   They lore bitcoiners to create unverified accounts proclaiming clearly on their FAQ that "verification isn't mandatory".

II) When a customer has a high balance, they block all their means to withdraw money, including crypto.

III) But they don't inform the customer that there is a problem and let him keep depositing money and paying fees for months obliviously of the intentional block.

IV) When the customer complains, they present contradictory, against TOS/FAQ and absurd justifications or refuse to explain the reason for the block.

V) They claim having a right to freely block accounts against everything their TOS and FAQ says.

VI) And they start blackmailing the customer to send their personal documents or lose their money, again against what their TOS and FAQ and personal assurances they gave to the customer.

VII) They accepted there wasn't really an issue about ownership taking in account the several evidences sent, but they still after raise absurd suspicions about this as a pretext.

VIII) Even raising absurd suspicions, they ignore the offers to present even more decisive evidence of ownership by the customer, including ownership of the banking account used to do a few withdrawals 5 years ago.

IX) Personal documents aren't a evidence of ownership of any account and are used as a first delayed tactic by all scam exchanges to keep the customer money that is going to be followed by demands of authenticated documents, personal videos holding the documents and to a expected final scam decision of rejection of the documents.

X)   On my case, even after their CTO gave up on demanding my documents, he didn’t apologize for frozen my withdrawals for months without any warning or said he was going to unfroze them, he wrote any withdrawal would take “much more time”, without even saying how long or why.

XI)   After I wrote that if they didn’t allow me to do a 2 bitcoin withdrawal that I need (less than 1/3 of my money) I would be force to post this on bitcointalk, the CFO Eliale started asking for my documents again against the writing word of his co-founder CTO Paci. Therefore, going public about this was their decisive criteria to demand documents again.

XII) They are using scam actions to fool forum members, like creating an alt account and posting on the same day on this thread a supporting post that the Rock CFO quoted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191


             Take your own conclusions.

   

   So, Rock customers be aware: today they are keeping my money, tomorrow who knows…
Don't register, don't look for an invitation code (the so-called codice di invito), don't ask for an invitation code, don't accept an invitation code. Better avoid them like the plague.



For an Italian version see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0

[1714198454]

1714198454

[1714198454]

1714198454

[1714198454]

1714198454

[Slow death]

I had to read all of your post, but I confess I do not understand, do not you know that in the last months more than 50% of the exchange, ICOs, even cloud mining are making KYC to their customers? everyone is now being forced to deliver your documents, you should already know this. Do the KYC, withdraw your money and forget about them

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/index.php



https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=42

[Coinfan]

Thanks for your time and answer.

I have to change my text to make it clear.

I didn't request an euro or fiat withdrawal. To do that I would have to verify.

I requested a bitcoin withdrawal and their FAQ is clear: for bitcoin withdrawals or deposits you don't need to verify, only for fiat, including euro: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

Moreover they have been blocking my bitcoins withdrawals for months (so, they have been blocking ALL WAYS to withdraw): at least after January or February. And they did that without even informing me or pointing out that there was any kind of problem with my account.

Actually they even decided to give up on requesting my documents. They only started again demanding them when I said that if they didn't unblock my bitcoin withdrawals in order to be able to withdraw 2 bitcoins I would post about this here on bitcointalk.

Sending them my documents probably won't matter. Their goal doesn't seem to be getting my documents.

[xtraelv]

Two highly contradictory statements:

I) I value my privacy very much.

I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts,

Most centralised exchanges require KYC documentation. The ones that don't are either located in a jurisdiction that doesn't require KYC comply with international AML rules (read: dodgy country) or they operate outside of any jurisdiction (read: don't comply with any law).

If you value your privacy then send them your KYC documents.

Police won't be interested because you can get your funds if you supply your identity documents.

Courts are not anonymous - not only will you have to disclose your identity - it will be disclosed to various entities (perhaps even publicly visible).

II) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer. They gave four contradictory explications on why they were asking for my documents. All against their own TOS/FAQ or bogus.

Wrong



https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/4
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5





Their legal requirements will have changed due to their change of location.

I)   I have a high balance.

This will put you in the "high risk" category. for mandatory reporting.

If you want to be anonymous  use a decentralized exchange that doesn't require KYC verification.

[Coinfan]

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

But once a customer has been accepted as unverified customer, the only ground to demand personal documents is:
8. AML REQUIREMENTS

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

None of their different and contradictory justifications to ask for my documents argues for any operation in particular.

And, even this case, they have to inform the customer. They have been blocking all ways for me to withdraw, including bitcoin, for months, without saying anything.

My identity was confirmed using a second Rock account.

And, as stated on the OP, I still own the banking account to where I did a few euro withdrawals 5 years ago, when their TOS permitted that.

Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?

[xtraelv]

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

Yes - looks very clear to me.

Their FAQ is not their legal terms and conditions. It clearly states in their T&Cs

3. TRT is entitled to request the user, at any time and at its sole discretion, to provide further information to allow the correct operation and provision of services.

Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?

It could be. They don't know because you are refusing to give them the information.

[Coinfan]

So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

[xtraelv]

So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

I don't know what you are seeing but I clicked the link you provided and I see this:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

Which also links to this:
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64



Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status

It makes it very clear that they can ask for more information.

and



(Unsure if that applies but it would give additional grounds for asking for identification)

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

Their TOS 8.4 allows them to block, suspend or close any account that does not provide their request for additional information. They must have communicated with you because otherwise how would you know that they require identity verification ?

8.4 doesn't specify that they require a reason - neither is there an overriding clause that requires them to specify a reason. It also doesn't specify that they have to inform you prior to blocking the account.

I'm not trying to argue the rights of wrongs of AML verification - but with most companies it is a legal requirement that they do not control. It is something that they have to do in order to stop the authorities from closing them down.

As far as I can see their TOS are consistent with their actions and I cannot see any court siding with you. (In this case Italian court)
It is something that is imposed on a company. They cannot just release your funds - it defeats the purpose of why they are asking for identity verification in the first place.

The only thing that you can do is provide your identification and then withdraw your funds.

Tips on providing identification to exchanges.

1) Get a piece of paper or sticker and write the exchange name on it and hold it partially in front of the identity document so it is clear that it is for that exchange only.
2) Get a dated newspaper and place it as close as possible with the date behind the identification and fold one corner of the newspaper slightly over the identification. This makes it hard to crop without having to extensively photoshop the info.
3) Take a photo with a date stamp on it.
4) I usually try to get away with having part of the serial number covered or use an expired identity card. (deliberate placement of finger) This limits as to where the information can potentially be mis-used.
5) Use a flash and directional light to put a shadow on the identity document. (Harder to photo-shop)

Don't trade anywhere you don't trust with your information - only deal with reputable companies.
Use different photos every time you verify your information and keep a record of it - if any of it ever gets used for identity theft you know who to sue.

DEX technology is being improved all the time. HODL till then.

[Coinfan]

This is the link I posted:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

It gives me this text:


1. How can I verify my account?
Last Updated 9 months ago

    What you need:
        An identity document, with at least 6 months validity. Out of SEPA countries, you must provide a valid passport.
        A proof of residence (English preferred): it can be a bank statement, a utility bill, or similar document with your residence address printed on it. It must be not older than 3 months. No screenshots and full page is required


    How?
        Sign into your TRT account
        Hover your mouse on the top right corner, over your username and select “My personal data”, then select the “Verification” tab on the left.
        Upload your identity document: front, back (not needed with passport), photo (different from the one in the document)
        Upload your proof of residence.


Remember that the proof of residence and the identity document are BOTH mandatory. DO NOT send documents via email or any other way instead of the provided platform when logged in.

For any issue during this process, you can always contact us on our support system.
Please note that the verification process usually take at least 48 working hours, but often takes much longer and there is no way to speed it up: verification is serious business.

Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

You can check your verification status on your personal page as well, but as soon as your account is verified, an email is sent to you to confirm its verification.

image




If you hit the €15.000 monthly limit and you want to verify your account from Level 2 to Level 3,, we will mail you some documents and ask you to return them filled and signed.

Once verified, you will receive an email notification.

IMPORTANT NOTE: make sure your documentation is always updated; id must still be valid for at least another 6 months and proof of address must be not older than 1 year, otherwise banks will not credit your deposit to us waiting for these documentation updates.


    Please note: we do not accept US Citizens or Residents.

-------------


The one you quoted is here: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

The note you quote is relevant. But you have to read it all and also taking in account the quoted "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

Quote:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

They can request additional information from level 2 and 3. That is the sense of the despite the status and also the fact that if you don't send it it will affect only your FIAT deposits: " without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly"

It only applies to unverified customers on the terms of their AML policy, that I quoted on the previous post.

8.4 can't be applied without 8.3, or 8.3 would be irrelevant. 8.4 only establishes the process, And they breached it completely.

They only required my documents when I finally went to them and ask for a withdrawal. 8.4 says they have to inform me. They blocked all my withdrawals since January/February 2018 without saying anything.

I accepted to keep being customer for 7 years and exchanged emails with the main founder and CFO with express declarations that I wouldn't ask for any other fiat withdrawal precisely in order to not being forced to send personal documents. And the CFO agreed: no fiat withdrawals, no need to send documents.

If I wanted to be a verified customer, I would have send them my documents long ago.

The importance I give to this issue made me make this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

But my main points are:

We can't trust an exchange that explicitly accepts unverified customers by declaring that verification isn't mandatory and then:

1) Blocks all withdrawals for months without saying anything to the customer.
2) After the customer complains, doesn't apologize and demands personal documents invoking that I traded fiat or made fiat withdrawals 5 years ago, when the TOS allowed them. And holds the large funds without setting any temporal limit.

This destroys all trust and, in my opinion, is very suspicious. By coincidence, I have a large balance.

You agree with everything they did?

Do you think they have the right to keep my money because I don't want to send them my documents, (which I argue their TOS/FAQ gives me this right) even if I present irrefutable evidence that the money is mine?


Anyway, thanks for your time.

[xtraelv]

Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status

Despite the status means : levels 1, 2 and 3 and anything else.


If you have funds on a centralised exchange then you have to expect that KYC and AML will eventually be required.

It is the law in almost every country in the world.

When something is a legal requirement it doesn't even matter what the TOS states. If they don't follow the law they get shut down.

If you are trading on a centralised exchange that is not doing it yet - expect it. They will either comply with AML or end up shut down like BTC-e.


Statements by founders are always difficult. He was expressing his opinion at the time based on how things were then. Things change.

Legitimate (legal)  exchanges have to follow the law. There is far more oversight now than there was a year ago. Almost every country has toughened their AML laws.

Disclosure: I've never traded on that exchange and don't know anyone involved there.

[Coinfan]

You are taking conclusions from a note on the FAQ that are completely contrary to the clear statement also on their FAQ:

"Verification is not mandatory"
You are saying they can make it mandatory at will, without any justification and that is clearly contrary to this explicit statement on their FAQ.

If this was the case, again, point 8.3 of their TOS on AML would be irrelevant: they could demand documents for whatever reason, including with scamming purposes, as a simple pretext to keep the money. They wouldn't have to wait for any suspicious transaction.

The quoted note only establishes as consequence for not sending documents demanded on its terms: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly". And this clearly doesn't apply to unverified customers since they can't do fiat withdrawals.

Moreover this note don't give them power to block bitcoin withdrawals, but just to delay fiat withdrawals. Or at most block fiat withdrawals from Level 2 and Level 3 customers.

Anyway for someone who was arguing that FAQ were irrelevant, you certainly are giving a lot of weight to a note on their FAQ that has no basis on their TOS.

You are suggesting their TOS is illegal and that they operate outside of the Law, without quoting specific italian law.

If you only can deposit crypto and withdraw crypto you launder nothing. Had crypto, ended up with crypto.

The main points are still the same: they can't be trustworthy, because they don't respect their personal assurances, their FAQ and TOS.

Any Rock customer can end up with all their ways to withdraw their money blocked for months without any information from them and be blackmailed to give any and all documents against FAQ/TOS and personal promises or see their money blocked for a indefinable time.

[r34tr783tr78]

Edited:

Fellow bitcoiners:

Think twice before creating an account on the Rock Trading Exchange, even if you get a free invitation code, without reading the below quick summary and the Rock CFO ratings:
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FBnp4T9mz%2FEliale-Trust.jpg&t=602&c=nRPuK1z9x50pVA

Please support my flags against them to help warn about their practices:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=207

and give them negative feedback:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35172
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=15648



Quick summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they covertly blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, 15 months ago (see balance scan below).

II) They refused several times to explain why. Now they wrote it was because the account was "dormant". Which is a complete lie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51377323#msg51377323

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping more money with a deposit and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block against what their TOS demands. This is fraud and a scam.

IV) When I complained on August 2018, they demanded my documents against what their FAQ said "verification isn't mandatory"and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary. They removed this reference to the voluntary nature of verification probably on 16 may 2019, which is another confession that they are breaching it. But the original version is conserved here as it was on 2 November 2018: https://archive.fo/BNSfb
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding my documents again.

VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they lied about an applicable european directive. But they know that the V AML Directive hasn't been adopted by Italy and it isn't applicable until Italy converts it into Italian Law. Moreover, even the V AML Directive only demands verification when there is fiat conversion/withdrawal.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51647723#msg51647723

VIII) Italian Law, Legislative Decree No. 231/2007, as emended by Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, i), says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50490829#msg50490829

IX) They confessed they are ready to keep my money "forever" (cit), under the pretext of the illegal KYC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158

X) For months they kept raising abusive suspicious about my ownership, ignoring the overwhelming evidence, which is a fact confirming that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money blocked. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would invent another pretext.

XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


XII) This is now on the european arbitrage system and on an Italian Financial Arbitrator, after a complaint with full disclose of identity with the same names they have on file. This was confirmed by a banking transfer to pay for the complaint cost and by documents sent. There is no longer any anonymity, but they still refuse to return my money.

XIII) Recently, they confessed several times that there isn't any security reason and that they know that the money is mine.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50381769#msg50381769
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50353964#msg50353964


XIV) They also confessed they are holding my money just to know who I am:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg49576928#msg49576928
This is against their TOS and Italian Law. But they know that if they were right, the Arbitrator would give them all details. So, it's clear that this isn't the real reason.

XV) They also confessed that if they lose the case they are not going to respect the decision of the Arbitrator to release my money: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50344427#msg50344427

XVI) Beware, the Rock CFO wrote he is ready to do to every unverified customer what they are doing to me, even without changing their own TOS/FAQ:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50060106#msg50060106 (translation and comment)

XVII) They breached their duty to respect the privacy of their customers and account security. They published here on bitcointalk almost all the personal details they had, including first name, nationality, gender, banking relations on a EU country and a full text of an 2013 email which was irrelevant to their defense:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg49989828#msg49989828 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815

XVIII) They confessed that they are not acting under their TOS/FAQ or italian law (so, they accept that they are breaching both) but claim to be "anticipating" the V AML European Directive that they know isn't applicable in Italy until converted in Italian Law:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg50016475#msg50016475 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50528161#msg50528161 (translation and comment)

XIX) They confirmed the main facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account with the account number (IBAN) the Rock Trading has on file.

VIII) There is a coincidence between the two names on file with the Rock and names on the complaint to the Arbitrator.

IX) Recently, I signed a message with a bitcoin address used to make a deposit on the Rock Trading in 1 June 2017: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058

X) About 9 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money. I told them I wouldn't login again and no one has login on the account for 5 months.




More details:


I have been an unverified customer of The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) for 7 years.

Currently I have there 35519 euros (and 99 XRPs). Check a scan of my euro balance.



You can confirm the scan was made on 16 August 2018. Check the 2018 on the market graphic and the date on the last trade on the market, on the top right.

If you have no time to read everything, jump to the conclusions below:

The Rock is owned by two forum members:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Since June or July 2014, their FAQ states clearly: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The CFO Eliale assured me on a July 2014 email that as long as I didn’t request a fiat deposit or withdrawal after this change, I didn’t have to verify my account.

However, on January or early February 2018, after I sold my bitcoins and ended with a high balance, they blocked all my ways to withdraw, including all crypto.

But they didn't told me anything about the block or about any problem. They let me keep obliviously trading/paying fees and making deposits for months. After the block, I even made a new deposit on 21 February 2018.

When I finally complained, instead of apologizing for the problem, they kept the block and demanded me to verify my account by sending my personal documents, with contradictory, absurd and against their own TOS and FAQ justifications.

Their TOS is very clear: they can only demand verification from current unverified customers if there is an “anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account” (see point 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).

They didn’t even try to substantiate any suspicious transaction.
   
   And, in case of any block, point 8.4 of their own TOS demands them to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process”.
   But they are blocking my withdrawals for months and didn’t even inform me that the block was intentional and that there was a problem. I had to go to them.

And they know perfectly well the origin of my money: trading on their exchange for the last 7 years.

See full details about their TOS here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

   
Confirming this illegal and very suspicious act, their CFO refused several times to explain what facts made them block my account, keep silent about it for months and demand verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110




On his email of 21 August 2018, the CTO Paci wrote that I didn’t had to send any personal documents: “BTW, is there any particular problems in providing some documents, if
I may ask? [ ] Anyway, feel free to not do it, if you wish so.”

But he added a very suspicious sentence: “Just be aware that our
support team will try other methods to check that the request to
withdraw is coming from the legitimate owner of the account, but that will
require much more time until we feel almost 100% secure.”.

They had no other way to verify on their own that I’m the legitimate owner beside the many ones I gave them.

Much less a way that is going to “require much more time”.

They have been blocking my withdrawals for at least 6 months and they are demanding more time?

They have no reason to suspect that I’m not the legitimate owner and I gave then even more evidence of this.

All the facts I describe on this post were confirmed by The Rock Exchange here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


Why I’m unwilling to send them my documents:



I) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer with full access to bitcoin deposits and withdrawals (but not fiat ones). They gave contradictory or against their TOS/FAQ explications and they are refusing to explain publicly why they are asking for my documents.

II) It's very risky to give a copy of our documents to anyone, especially using the Internet. One of their employees can make a copy, sell it or use it on some criminal activity or they might be hacked and then I'll end in trouble.

III) They blocked my bitcoin withdrawals for months without even informing me and violated clearly their TOS and FAQ and their personal word. They are doing exactly what scam exchanges usually do. I certainly won't trust them my documents.

IV) Since they blocked my bitcoin withdrawals covertly and violated their TOS and FAQ and disrespected the personal assurance they gave me that they wouldn't ask for my documents, they are acting on (to say the very least) a very suspicious way:  there is a very big risk that they won't release my funds after I send them my documents. Scam exchanges do this all the time. They just invent another pretext to keep the money. Someone who disrespects his word once, will do it again without problems.

VI) Because they are blackmailing me for sending my documents and holding illegally my money, I was forced to give large publicity to the way they acted and are acting. This is affecting their reputation. If I sent my documents and they didn’t release my money, any further publicity to their acts could make them use my documents on illegal ways as retaliation.

VII) They kept raising doubts about my ownership of the money here on this thread against all evidence, suggesting I'm an hacker or some sort of criminal, lying about the Law applicable and their TOS meaning, which confirms that they are acting in bad faith and that I can't trust them with my documents.




Conclusions:

Since I have unquestionable evidence that I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts, so I’m going to measure my words and let you take your own conclusions.

I)   They lore bitcoiners to create unverified accounts proclaiming clearly on their FAQ that "verification isn't mandatory".

II) When a customer has a high balance, they block all their means to withdraw money, including crypto.

III) But they don't inform the customer that there is a problem and let him keep depositing money and paying fees for months obliviously of the intentional block.

IV) When the customer complains, they present contradictory, against TOS/FAQ and absurd justifications or refuse to explain the reason for the block.

V) They claim having a right to freely block accounts against everything their TOS and FAQ says.

VI) And they start blackmailing the customer to send their personal documents or lose their money, again against what their TOS and FAQ and personal assurances they gave to the customer.

VII) They accepted there wasn't really an issue about ownership taking in account the several evidences sent, but they still after raise absurd suspicions about this as a pretext.

VIII) Even raising absurd suspicions, they ignore the offers to present even more decisive evidence of ownership by the customer, including ownership of the banking account used to do a few withdrawals 5 years ago.

IX) Personal documents aren't a evidence of ownership of any account and are used as a first delayed tactic by all scam exchanges to keep the customer money that is going to be followed by demands of authenticated documents, personal videos holding the documents and to a expected final scam decision of rejection of the documents.

X)   On my case, even after their CTO gave up on demanding my documents, he didn’t apologize for frozen my withdrawals for months without any warning or said he was going to unfroze them, he wrote any withdrawal would take “much more time”, without even saying how long or why.

XI)   After I wrote that if they didn’t allow me to do a 2 bitcoin withdrawal that I need (less than 1/3 of my money) I would be force to post this on bitcointalk, the CFO Eliale started asking for my documents again against the writing word of his co-founder CTO Paci. Therefore, going public about this was their decisive criteria to demand documents again.

XII) They are using scam actions to fool forum members, like creating an alt account and posting on the same day on this thread a supporting post that the Rock CFO quoted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191


             Take your own conclusions.

   

   So, Rock customers be aware: today they are keeping my money, tomorrow who knows…
Don't register, don't look for an invitation code (the so-called codice di invito), don't ask for an invitation code, don't accept an invitation code. Better avoid them like the plague. [/b]



For an Italian version see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0

I dont care for TOS. Nobody reads or understands them. But I care for what an exchange writes on their website. If they say verification isnt mandatory better have a very good reason for demanding it.
I'm interest to know The Rock reason about this.
Blocking the OP account withdrawals and saying nothing to him for months is even trickier. Small exchanges dont pick fights with their customers for nothing. If the customer has a lot of money the situation starts flashing red lights.

[eliale]

Sorry, while I can understand your point of view, in order to protect your interests and everybody else safety, we do need to verify your real identity before releasing your funds which are available.

Refusing to do so, it only raise our concerns about the real ownership of the account.

So, please, comply with the requests in order to solve the issue.

As an alternative, if you do not want to provide requested information to us, you may contact the Italian police and file a request.  They will request us to proceed and we will be ok because we do have the guarantee they checked your Identity which, obviously will be forwarded to us....  It only takes longer but it is your choice.

Thank you

Andrea Medri
TRT CFO

EDIT: post dated 11/11/2020

Dear readers,

this morning, as anticipated, we filed a formal criminal complaint for aggravated defamation against Coinfan.

Unfortunately, over the past two years, we have tried countless times to persuade the defendant to proceed with the identification for two simple reasons:

1) Verify that she was the real owner of the account
2) Comply with the regulations in force that require us to do this

Our requests turned out to be in vain. Several times we have urged Coinfan to take legal action against us with our aim of obtaining what is requested but, despite the fact that he has declared several times that he has done so, the waiting for the promised act continues.

At the same time, on this chat and in several others, the same has always maintained a seriously harmful and defamatory attitude towards us, hiding behind anonymity.

Consequently, unfortunately, our act is due in order to protect our interests, those of our members and show that we have nothing to hide.

At the following link G drive you will find a copy of the deed from which, for obvious reasons, we have hidden sensitive data: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AcIIsoWP5mcMCApKMMPtTokkXfS9eyIz?usp=sharing

In this folder, we will upload any  relevant documents about the case.

We will shortly notify the legal department of Bitcointalk about the legal procedure. It is up to them to decide how to handle the fact.

We know that Coinfan will try to "hide" this statement by writing several messages after this. For this reason, unless bitcointalk decides to freeze this chat, we will resume our declaration from time to time.

As you can understand, we will not discuss this issue with the community as there is an ongoing judicial investigation but, we will limit ourselves only to updating you of any possible development

Andrea Medri
The Rock Trading srl

[Coinfan]

The Rock CFO just confirmed all the facts and quotes I wrote about on the OP.

But what he doesn't say is even more revealing.

He didn't even try to explain:

I) Why he blocked all my withdrawals months ago, at least January/February 2018?

II) Why he didn't inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

IV) Why when I complained he started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

V) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

VI) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave him evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

VII) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VIII) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

They can't claim my resistance to comply with their abusive act of demanding my documents against their FAQ/TOS as cause for doubt my ownership.

They knew from the start I wouldn't send them my documents. It's because of this that they are asking for them.

On a support message to him, on 9 October 2013, I told him that MtGox had blackmail me to send my documents and something like this “ends all trust on an institution”.

CFO Eliale answered “As far as Gox there isn’t much to add…”  which shows a disagreement about what he is now doing.

I even started this thread here some years ago about exchanges that don't ask for verification:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

If I didn't resist to send my documents that would be cause for suspicion.

But I know that if I send them my documents, they will pick another pretext to try to keep my money, because this isn't about my identity, but about my money.

If I had 1000 euros there, this wouldn't be happening.

Since I mentioned the police first, he had to indicate the police option,  in order for him to try to give an honest impression.

But they are betting I won't go to the Police and that the police will only demand them to return the money without any other consequence for them.

They are wrong: I'll go to the police and they are responsible for fraud for blocking my withdrawals but keeping me unaware of the situation in order to keep me trading and making deposits.

And they are responsible for embezzlement attempt, since they covertly blocked all my withdrawals and are saying they will keep my money for good if I don't send them my documents.

[eliale]

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you

[Coinfan]

Your quote of the note on the FAQ at https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64 is very misleading.

And I already debunked with the help of my lawyer that note as ground to demand verification or documents:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44894787#msg44894787

The full note says:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

The note say you can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with your request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say you can block unverified accounts.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely your FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

You can say whatever you want: your TOS and FAQ don't allow you to demand verification from unverified costumers freely.

At the very least you have to have a pretty good justification. You failed to even address the question of why you did everything you did.

Don't invoke your TOS chapter 8.3 and 8.4: it applies only to situations of suspicions of money laundering as its titles makes clear: 8. AML REQUIREMENTS. You never accused me of that.

Are you going to try to accuse me of that now? How convenient... I haven't made a fiat withdrawal in 5 years, how could I do any money laundering without moving money to the banking system?

Moreover, my last crypto withdrawal was more than 1 year ago. Accusing me of money laundering would just be a bogus accusation which would kill the very last credibility you might still have.

What was the "anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account"? (8.3).

And 8.4 applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspects of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.

And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear: Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing.



But what is striking from your post is that you deliberately avoided answer very important questions:

I) Why all my means of withdraw were blocked months ago, at least on January/February 2018?

II) Why didn't you inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) Why when I complained you started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

IV) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

V) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VI) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

[eliale]

Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

[r34tr783tr78]

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you

Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

You are arguing your TOS allows you to wake up in the morning in bad mood and block a customer account because of that and I dont really care unless you start doing that!
You didnt reject any part of the OP history but you had three opportunities to give reasons why you blocked the OP account without saying nothing to him for months and why you demanded his verification against what you websites says but you refused to do that. If you arent a scammer it looks like you are acting like one. I guess your security reasons will force you to keep the OPs money also.

[Coinfan]

He can't answer, because nothing changed on my activity or account during the last 5 years, except one thing: the balance got bigger thanks to the raise of bitcoin.

He can't confess that the issue that made them block my withdrawals was trying to take my money.

He had the nerve to suggest that I might be a hacker... somehow, a hacker hacked my brain, stole my memories and was able to quote detailed conversations I had with his co-founder Paci 6 years ago on Second Life like I did on several emails I sent them! Ridiculous.

One of the facts that point out for their goal being just steal my money is that they talk about doubts about my ownership but don't care for decisive evidence I have, like being the owner of the banking account used to receive 4 small withdrawals I made in 2013.

Insisting on my documents is just a pretext to keep my 35500 euros.

 

[eliale]

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you