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Author Topic: The Rock Trading www.therocktrading.com : Selective Scam (truffa)  (Read 4342 times)
Coinfan
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August 29, 2018, 03:47:50 PM
Last edit: Today at 02:53:40 PM by Coinfan
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #1

Fellow bitcoiners:


Quick summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, 11 months ago.

II) They refused several times to explain why, including on this thread.

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping money with deposits and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block.

IV) When I complained on last August, they demanded my documents even if their FAQ says "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27 and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary.

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.

VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they invented an applicable european directive. But they know very well directives only apply to States in order for them to create legislation and can't be applied directly to private persons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union).

VIII) Italy adopted their Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, i), says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal.

IX) They just confirmed they are going to keep my money "forever" (cit), even if I have overwhelming evidence that it's mine (check below).

X) Taken in account my overwhelming evidence, the fact that they keep raising doubts about my ownership is another confirmation that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would reject them or invent another pretext.

XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


XII) This scam is now on the european arbitrage system, after a complaint with full disclose of identity. This was confirmed by a banking transfer to pay for the complaint cost. My accusations aren't no longer anonymous. They had no right to KYC on this case, but now they know all personal details. But they are still blocking my money.




They confirmed all these facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account to where small euro withdrawals were made from my Rock Account in 2013. They have now a scan of it.

VIII) I still own the account on another exchange from which I made almost all crypto deposits on the Rock and I have scans of their transactions.

IX) About 4 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money.






More details:


I have been an unverified customer of The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) for 7 years.

Currently I have there 35519 euros (and 99 XRPs). Check a scan of my euro balance.



You can confirm the scan was made on 16 August 2018. Check the 2018 on the market graphic and the date on the last trade on the market, on the top right.

If you have no time to read everything, jump to the conclusions below:

The Rock is owned by two forum members:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Since June or July 2014, their FAQ states clearly: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The CFO Eliale assured me on a July 2014 email that as long as I didn’t request a fiat deposit or withdrawal after this change, I didn’t have to verify my account.

However, on January or early February 2018, after I sold my bitcoins and ended with a high balance, they blocked all my ways to withdraw, including all crypto.

But they didn't told me anything about the block or about any problem. They let me keep obliviously trading/paying fees and making deposits for months. After the block, I even made a new deposit on 21 February 2018.


When I finally complained, instead of apologizing for the problem, they kept the block and demanded me to verify my account by sending my personal documents, with contradictory, absurd and against their own TOS and FAQ justifications.

Their TOS is very clear: they can only demand verification from current unverified customers if there is an “anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account” (see point 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).

They didn’t even try to substantiate any suspicious transaction.
   
   And, in case of any block, point 8.4 of their own TOS demands them to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process”.
   But they are blocking my withdrawals for months and didn’t even inform me that the block was intentional and that there was a problem. I had to go to them.


And they know perfectly well the origin of my money: trading on their exchange for the last 7 years.

See full details about their TOS here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

   
Confirming this illegal and very suspicious act, their CFO refused several times to explain what facts made them block my account, keep silent about it for months and demand verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110




On his email of 21 August 2018, the CTO Paci wrote that I didn’t had to send any personal documents: “BTW, is there any particular problems in providing some documents, if
I may ask? [ ] Anyway, feel free to not do it, if you wish so.”

But he added a very suspicious sentence: “Just be aware that our
support team will try other methods to check that the request to
withdraw is coming from the legitimate owner of the account, but that will
require much more time until we feel almost 100% secure.”.


They had no other way to verify on their own that I’m the legitimate owner beside the many ones I gave them.

Much less a way that is going to “require much more time”.

They have been blocking my withdrawals for at least 6 months and they are demanding more time?

They have no reason to suspect that I’m not the legitimate owner and I gave then even more evidence of this.

All the facts I describe on this post were confirmed by The Rock Exchange here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


Why I’m unwilling to send them my documents:



I) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer with full access to bitcoin deposits and withdrawals (but not fiat ones). They gave contradictory or against their TOS/FAQ explications and they are refusing to explain publicly why they are asking for my documents.

II) It's very risky to give a copy of our documents to anyone, especially using the Internet. One of their employees can make a copy, sell it or use it on some criminal activity or they might be hacked and then I'll end in trouble.

III) They blocked my bitcoin withdrawals for months without even informing me and violated clearly their TOS and FAQ and their personal word. They are doing exactly what scam exchanges usually do. I certainly won't trust them my documents.

IV) Since they blocked my bitcoin withdrawals covertly and violated their TOS and FAQ and disrespected the personal assurance they gave me that they wouldn't ask for my documents, they are acting on (to say the very least) a very suspicious way:  there is a very big risk that they won't release my funds after I send them my documents. Scam exchanges do this all the time. They just invent another pretext to keep the money. Someone who disrespects his word once, will do it again without problems.

VI) Because they are blackmailing me for sending my documents and holding illegally my money, I was forced to give large publicity to the way they acted and are acting. This is affecting their reputation. If I sent my documents and they didn’t release my money, any further publicity to their acts could make them use my documents on illegal ways as retaliation.

VII) They kept raising doubts about my ownership of the money here on this thread against all evidence and the fact that this public fight is going on for about 5 months, which confirms that they are acting in bad faith and that I can't trust them with my documents.





Conclusions:

Since I have unquestionable evidence that I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts, so I’m going to measure my words and let you take your own conclusions.

I)   They lore bitcoiners to create unverified accounts proclaiming clearly on their FAQ that "verification isn't mandatory".

II) When a customer has a high balance, they block all their means to withdraw money, including crypto.

III) But they don't inform the customer that there is a problem and let him keep depositing money and paying fees for months obliviously of the intentional block.

IV) When the customer complains, they present contradictory, against TOS/FAQ and absurd justifications or refuse to explain the reason for the block.

V) They claim having a right to freely block accounts against everything their TOS and FAQ says.

VI) And they start blackmailing the customer to send their personal documents or lose their money, again against what their TOS and FAQ and personal assurances they gave to the customer.

VII) They accepted there wasn't really an issue about ownership taking in account the several evidences sent, but they still after raise absurd suspicions about this as a pretext.

VIII) Even raising absurd suspicions, they ignore the offers to present even more decisive evidence of ownership by the customer, including ownership of the banking account used to do a few withdrawals 5 years ago.

IX) Personal documents aren't a evidence of ownership of any account and are used as a first delayed tactic by all scam exchanges to keep the customer money that is going to be followed by demands of authenticated documents, personal videos holding the documents and to a expected final scam decision of rejection of the documents.

X)   On my case, even after their CTO gave up on demanding my documents, he didn’t apologize for frozen my withdrawals for months without any warning or said he was going to unfroze them, he wrote any withdrawal would take “much more time”, without even saying how long or why.

XI)   After I wrote that if they didn’t allow me to do a 2 bitcoin withdrawal that I need (less than 1/3 of my money) I would be force to post this on bitcointalk, the CFO Eliale started asking for my documents again against the writing word of his co-founder CTO Paci. Therefore, going public about this was their decisive criteria to demand documents again
.

XII) They are using scam actions to fool forum members, like creating an alt account and posting on the same day on this thread a supporting post that the Rock CFO quoted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191


             Take your own conclusions.

   

   So, Rock customers be aware: today they are keeping my money, tomorrow who knows…[/b]


Italian (Google translation):


Amici del bitcoin:


Sono stato un cliente non verificato di The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) per 7 anni.

Attualmente ho lì 35519 euro (e 99 XRP). Controlla una scansione del mio saldo in euro.



Puoi confermare che la scansione è stata effettuata il 16 agosto 2018. Controlla il 2018 sul grafico del mercato e la data dell'ultimo scambio sul mercato, in alto a destra.

Se non hai tempo per leggere tutto, passa alle seguenti conclusioni:

The Rock è di proprietà di due membri del forum:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Da giugno o luglio 2014, le loro FAQ affermano chiaramente: "La verifica non è obbligatoria, ma per depositare / ritirare le valute legali è necessario" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27 .

Il CFO Eliale mi ha assicurato un'e-mail del luglio 2014 che, fino a quando non ho richiesto un deposito fiat o un prelievo dopo questo cambiamento, non ho dovuto verificare il mio account.

Tuttavia, a gennaio o agli inizi di febbraio del 2018, dopo aver venduto i miei bitcoin e concluso un saldo elevato, hanno bloccato tutti i miei prelievi crittografici.

Ma non mi hanno detto nulla sul blocco o su nessun problema. Mi hanno lasciato continuare a commerciare / pagare tasse e fare depositi. Dopo il blocco, ho effettuato un nuovo deposito il 21 febbraio 2018.

Quando mi sono lamentato, invece di scusarmi per il problema, hanno tenuto il blocco e mi hanno chiesto di verificare il mio account inviando i miei documenti personali, con contraddittorie, assurde e contro le loro giustificazioni TOS e FAQ.

I loro TOS sono molto chiari: possono solo richiedere la verifica dai clienti non verificati correnti se c'è "un'operazione anomala o non completamente trasparente sull'account dell'Utente" (vedere il punto 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/ 3).

Non hanno neppure provato a provare alcuna transazione sospetta.
  
   E, in caso di blocco, il punto 8.4 del proprio TOS chiede loro di fare "utili sforzi da parte di TRT per contattare l'utente e sollecitare il completamento del processo di verifica dovuto".
   Ma stanno bloccando i miei prelievi da mesi e non mi hanno nemmeno informato che il blocco era intenzionale e che c'era un problema. Dovevo andare da loro.

E sanno perfettamente l'origine dei miei soldi: commerciano sul loro scambio negli ultimi 7 anni.

Vedi tutti i dettagli sul loro TOS qui: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

  
Confermando questo atto illegale e molto sospetto, il loro CFO ha rifiutato più volte di spiegare quali fatti li hanno costretti a bloccare il mio account, a tacere per mesi ea richiedere la verifica: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110 # msg45512110


La mia proprietà del mio account non è il problema:
I) Ho il login e la password del mio account Rock.

II) Ho il login e la password dell'email associata all'account e li ho scritti utilizzando questa email.

III) L'IP che ho è e sempre appartenente allo stesso paese e luogo.

IV) C'è un secondo account Rock che il Rock sa è collegato a me, creato con il permesso del CFO Eliale nel 2014. Una mail è stata inviata dall'email di questo account confermando la mia identità.



V) Ho citato conversazioni dettagliate che ho avuto con il CTO Paci su Second Life 6 anni fa.

VI) Le ho scritte più volte che ero disponibile per andare su Second Life e confermare la mia identità usando l'account di Second Life associato al mio account Rock. Hanno ignorato l'offerta.

VII) Possiedo ancora il conto bancario in cui sono stati effettuati piccoli prelievi in ​​euro dal mio account Rock nel 2013. Questa è una chiara prova su qualsiasi tribunale che il conto Rock sia mio. Sono disposto a fare una scansione del suo account online e inviarlo se promettono di liberare i miei fondi.

Sulla sua e-mail del 21 agosto 2018, il CTO Paci ha accettato che non c'è un problema sulla mia proprietà del mio account Rock: "le persone che stanno sostenendo non conoscono te o la tua attività nella seconda vita".
Ha riconosciuto tutte le conversazioni che ho citato che abbiamo avuto 6 anni fa.

E ha anche scritto che non dovevo inviare alcun documento personale: "A proposito, c'è qualche problema particolare nel fornire alcuni documenti, se
Potrei chiedere? [] In ogni caso, sentiti libero di non farlo, se lo desideri. "

Ma ha aggiunto una frase molto sospetta: "Basta essere consapevoli che il nostro
il team di supporto proverà altri metodi per verificare che la richiesta a
ritiro proviene dal legittimo proprietario dell'account, ma così sarà
richiede molto più tempo fino a quando non ci sentiamo quasi al sicuro al 100%. ". [/ b]

Non avevano altro modo per verificare da soli che io sono il legittimo proprietario accanto a molti che ho dato loro.

Molto meno un modo che "richiede molto più tempo".

Hanno bloccato i miei prelievi per almeno 6 mesi e richiedono più tempo?

Non hanno motivo di sospettare che io non sia il legittimo proprietario e ho dato quindi ancora più prove di ciò.

Tutti i fatti che ho descritto su questo post sono stati confermati da The Rock Exchange qui:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 29, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
 #2

I had to read all of your post, but I confess I do not understand, do not you know that in the last months more than 50% of the exchange, ICOs, even cloud mining are making KYC to their customers? everyone is now being forced to deliver your documents, you should already know this. Do the KYC, withdraw your money and forget about them

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/index.php



https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=42


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August 30, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 12:33:23 AM by Coinfan
 #3

Thanks for your time and answer.

I have to change my text to make it clear.

I didn't request an euro or fiat withdrawal. To do that I would have to verify.

I requested a bitcoin withdrawal and their FAQ is clear: for bitcoin withdrawals or deposits you don't need to verify, only for fiat, including euro: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

Moreover they have been blocking my bitcoins withdrawals for months (so, they have been blocking ALL WAYS to withdraw): at least after January or February. And they did that without even informing me or pointing out that there was any kind of problem with my account.

Actually they even decided to give up on requesting my documents. They only started again demanding them when I said that if they didn't unblock my bitcoin withdrawals in order to be able to withdraw 2 bitcoins I would post about this here on bitcointalk.

Sending them my documents probably won't matter. Their goal doesn't seem to be getting my documents.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 12:40:52 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 01:00:23 AM by xtraelv
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #4

Two highly contradictory statements:

I) I value my privacy very much.

I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts,


Most centralised exchanges require KYC documentation. The ones that don't are either located in a jurisdiction that doesn't require KYC comply with international AML rules (read: dodgy country) or they operate outside of any jurisdiction (read: don't comply with any law).

If you value your privacy then send them your KYC documents.

Police won't be interested because you can get your funds if you supply your identity documents.

Courts are not anonymous - not only will you have to disclose your identity - it will be disclosed to various entities (perhaps even publicly visible).

Quote
II) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer. They gave four contradictory explications on why they were asking for my documents. All against their own TOS/FAQ or bogus.

Wrong



https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/4
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5





Their legal requirements will have changed due to their change of location.



I)   I have a high balance.

This will put you in the "high risk" category. for mandatory reporting.

If you want to be anonymous  use a decentralized exchange that doesn't require KYC verification.



We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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August 30, 2018, 12:57:22 AM
 #5

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

But once a customer has been accepted as unverified customer, the only ground to demand personal documents is:
8. AML REQUIREMENTS

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

None of their different and contradictory justifications to ask for my documents argues for any operation in particular.

And, even this case, they have to inform the customer. They have been blocking all ways for me to withdraw, including bitcoin, for months, without saying anything.

My identity was confirmed using a second Rock account.

And, as stated on the OP, I still own the banking account to where I did a few euro withdrawals 5 years ago, when their TOS permitted that.

Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?





SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 01:04:22 AM
 #6

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.


Yes - looks very clear to me.

Their FAQ is not their legal terms and conditions. It clearly states in their T&Cs

3. TRT is entitled to request the user, at any time and at its sole discretion, to provide further information to allow the correct operation and provision of services.

Quote
Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?

It could be. They don't know because you are refusing to give them the information.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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August 30, 2018, 01:12:14 AM
 #7


So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 01:40:27 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 02:32:40 AM by xtraelv
 #8


So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

I don't know what you are seeing but I clicked the link you provided and I see this:

Which also links to this:
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64



Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status


It makes it very clear that they can ask for more information.

and



(Unsure if that applies but it would give additional grounds for asking for identification)


You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...


Their TOS 8.4 allows them to block, suspend or close any account that does not provide their request for additional information. They must have communicated with you because otherwise how would you know that they require identity verification ?

8.4 doesn't specify that they require a reason - neither is there an overriding clause that requires them to specify a reason. It also doesn't specify that they have to inform you prior to blocking the account.

I'm not trying to argue the rights of wrongs of AML verification - but with most companies it is a legal requirement that they do not control. It is something that they have to do in order to stop the authorities from closing them down.

As far as I can see their TOS are consistent with their actions and I cannot see any court siding with you. (In this case Italian court)
It is something that is imposed on a company. They cannot just release your funds - it defeats the purpose of why they are asking for identity verification in the first place.

The only thing that you can do is provide your identification and then withdraw your funds.

Tips on providing identification to exchanges.

1) Get a piece of paper or sticker and write the exchange name on it and hold it partially in front of the identity document so it is clear that it is for that exchange only.
2) Get a dated newspaper and place it as close as possible with the date behind the identification and fold one corner of the newspaper slightly over the identification. This makes it hard to crop without having to extensively photoshop the info.
3) Take a photo with a date stamp on it.
4) I usually try to get away with having part of the serial number covered or use an expired identity card. (deliberate placement of finger) This limits as to where the information can potentially be mis-used.
5) Use a flash and directional light to put a shadow on the identity document. (Harder to photo-shop)

Don't trade anywhere you don't trust with your information - only deal with reputable companies.
Use different photos every time you verify your information and keep a record of it - if any of it ever gets used for identity theft you know who to sue.

DEX technology is being improved all the time. HODL till then.

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August 30, 2018, 02:27:17 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 02:50:46 AM by Coinfan
 #9

This is the link I posted:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

It gives me this text:


1. How can I verify my account?
Last Updated 9 months ago

    What you need:
        An identity document, with at least 6 months validity. Out of SEPA countries, you must provide a valid passport.
        A proof of residence (English preferred): it can be a bank statement, a utility bill, or similar document with your residence address printed on it. It must be not older than 3 months. No screenshots and full page is required


    How?
        Sign into your TRT account
        Hover your mouse on the top right corner, over your username and select “My personal data”, then select the “Verification” tab on the left.
        Upload your identity document: front, back (not needed with passport), photo (different from the one in the document)
        Upload your proof of residence.


Remember that the proof of residence and the identity document are BOTH mandatory. DO NOT send documents via email or any other way instead of the provided platform when logged in.

For any issue during this process, you can always contact us on our support system.
Please note that the verification process usually take at least 48 working hours, but often takes much longer and there is no way to speed it up: verification is serious business.

Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

You can check your verification status on your personal page as well, but as soon as your account is verified, an email is sent to you to confirm its verification.

image




If you hit the €15.000 monthly limit and you want to verify your account from Level 2 to Level 3,, we will mail you some documents and ask you to return them filled and signed.

Once verified, you will receive an email notification.

IMPORTANT NOTE: make sure your documentation is always updated; id must still be valid for at least another 6 months and proof of address must be not older than 1 year, otherwise banks will not credit your deposit to us waiting for these documentation updates.


    Please note: we do not accept US Citizens or Residents.

-------------


The one you quoted is here: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

The note you quote is relevant. But you have to read it all and also taking in account the quoted "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

Quote:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

They can request additional information from level 2 and 3. That is the sense of the despite the status and also the fact that if you don't send it it will affect only your FIAT deposits: " without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly"

It only applies to unverified customers on the terms of their AML policy, that I quoted on the previous post.

8.4 can't be applied without 8.3, or 8.3 would be irrelevant. 8.4 only establishes the process, And they breached it completely.

They only required my documents when I finally went to them and ask for a withdrawal. 8.4 says they have to inform me. They blocked all my withdrawals since January/February 2018 without saying anything.

I accepted to keep being customer for 7 years and exchanged emails with the main founder and CFO with express declarations that I wouldn't ask for any other fiat withdrawal precisely in order to not being forced to send personal documents. And the CFO agreed: no fiat withdrawals, no need to send documents.

If I wanted to be a verified customer, I would have send them my documents long ago.

The importance I give to this issue made me make this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

But my main points are:

We can't trust an exchange that explicitly accepts unverified customers by declaring that verification isn't mandatory and then:

1) Blocks all withdrawals for months without saying anything to the customer.
2) After the customer complains, doesn't apologize and demands personal documents invoking that I traded fiat or made fiat withdrawals 5 years ago, when the TOS allowed them. And holds the large funds without setting any temporal limit.

This destroys all trust and, in my opinion, is very suspicious. By coincidence, I have a large balance.

You agree with everything they did?

Do you think they have the right to keep my money because I don't want to send them my documents, (which I argue their TOS/FAQ gives me this right) even if I present irrefutable evidence that the money is mine?


Anyway, thanks for your time.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 02:52:40 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 10:54:25 AM by xtraelv
 #10

Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status

Despite the status means : levels 1, 2 and 3 and anything else.


If you have funds on a centralised exchange then you have to expect that KYC and AML will eventually be required.

It is the law in almost every country in the world.

When something is a legal requirement it doesn't even matter what the TOS states. If they don't follow the law they get shut down.

If you are trading on a centralised exchange that is not doing it yet - expect it. They will either comply with AML or end up shut down like BTC-e.


Statements by founders are always difficult. He was expressing his opinion at the time based on how things were then. Things change.

Legitimate (legal)  exchanges have to follow the law. There is far more oversight now than there was a year ago. Almost every country has toughened their AML laws.

Disclosure: I've never traded on that exchange and don't know anyone involved there.

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August 30, 2018, 12:30:53 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 12:45:02 PM by Coinfan
 #11

You are taking conclusions from a note on the FAQ that are completely contrary to the clear statement also on their FAQ:

"Verification is not mandatory"
You are saying they can make it mandatory at will, without any justification and that is clearly contrary to this explicit statement on their FAQ.

If this was the case, again, point 8.3 of their TOS on AML would be irrelevant: they could demand documents for whatever reason, including with scamming purposes, as a simple pretext to keep the money. They wouldn't have to wait for any suspicious transaction.

The quoted note only establishes as consequence for not sending documents demanded on its terms: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly". And this clearly doesn't apply to unverified customers since they can't do fiat withdrawals.

Moreover this note don't give them power to block bitcoin withdrawals, but just to delay fiat withdrawals. Or at most block fiat withdrawals from Level 2 and Level 3 customers.

Anyway for someone who was arguing that FAQ were irrelevant, you certainly are giving a lot of weight to a note on their FAQ that has no basis on their TOS.

You are suggesting their TOS is illegal and that they operate outside of the Law, without quoting specific italian law.

If you only can deposit crypto and withdraw crypto you launder nothing. Had crypto, ended up with crypto.

The main points are still the same: they can't be trustworthy, because they don't respect their personal assurances, their FAQ and TOS.

Any Rock customer can end up with all their ways to withdraw their money blocked for months without any information from them and be blackmailed to give any and all documents against FAQ/TOS and personal promises or see their money blocked for a indefinable time.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 11:20:55 PM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 05:54:20 PM by r34tr783tr78
 #12

Fellow bitcoiners:


Quick summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, 11 months ago.

II) They refused several times to explain why, including on this thread.

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping money with deposits and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block.

IV) When I complained on last August, they demanded my documents even if their FAQ says "verification isn't mandatory" and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary.

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding a copy of my documents again.

VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they invented an applicable european directive. But they know very well directives only apply to States in order for them to create legislation and can't be applied directly to private persons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union).

VIII) Italy adopted their Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal.

IX) They just confirmed they are going to keep my money "forever" (their words), even if I have overwhelming evidence that it's mine (check below).

X) Taken in account my overwhelming evidence, the fact that they keep raising doubts about my ownership is another confirmation that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would reject them or invent another pretext.

XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account to where small euro withdrawals were made from my Rock Account in 2013.

VIII) I still own the account on another exchange from which I made almost all crypto deposits on the Rock and I have scans of their transactions.

IX) About 2 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money.


I dont care for TOS. Nobody reads or understands them. But I care for what an exchange writes on their website. If they say verification isnt mandatory better have a very good reason for demanding it.
I'm interest to know The Rock reason about this.
Blocking the OP account withdrawals and saying nothing to him for months is even trickier. Small exchanges dont pick fights with their customers for nothing. If the customer has a lot of money the situation starts flashing red lights.

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August 31, 2018, 01:18:55 AM
 #13

Sorry, while I can understand your point of view, in order to protect your interests and everybody else safety, we do need to verify your real identity before releasing your funds which are available.

Refusing to do so, it only raise our concerns about the real ownership of the account.

So, please, comply with the requests in order to solve the issue.

As an alternative, if you do not want to provide requested information to us, you may contact the Italian police and file a request.  They will request us to proceed and we will be ok because we do have the guarantee they checked your Identity which, obviously will be forwarded to us....  It only takes longer but it is your choice.

Thank you

Andrea Medri
TRT CFO

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August 31, 2018, 12:28:19 PM
Last edit: August 31, 2018, 01:01:07 PM by Coinfan
 #14

The Rock CFO just confirmed all the facts and quotes I wrote about on the OP.

But what he doesn't say is even more revealing.

He didn't even try to explain:

I) Why he blocked all my withdrawals months ago, at least January/February 2018?

II) Why he didn't inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

IV) Why when I complained he started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

V) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

VI) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave him evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

VII) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?


VIII) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

They can't claim my resistance to comply with their abusive act of demanding my documents against their FAQ/TOS as cause for doubt my ownership.

They knew from the start I wouldn't send them my documents. It's because of this that they are asking for them.

On a support message to him, on 9 October 2013, I told him that MtGox had blackmail me to send my documents and something like this “ends all trust on an institution”.

CFO Eliale answered “As far as Gox there isn’t much to add…”  which shows a disagreement about what he is now doing.


I even started this thread here some years ago about exchanges that don't ask for verification:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

If I didn't resist to send my documents that would be cause for suspicion.

But I know that if I send them my documents, they will pick another pretext to try to keep my money, because this isn't about my identity, but about my money.

If I had 1000 euros there, this wouldn't be happening.

Since I mentioned the police first, he had to indicate the police option,  in order for him to try to give an honest impression.

But they are betting I won't go to the Police and that the police will only demand them to return the money without any other consequence for them.

They are wrong: I'll go to the police and they are responsible for fraud for blocking my withdrawals but keeping me unaware of the situation in order to keep me trading and making deposits.

And they are responsible for embezzlement attempt, since they covertly blocked all my withdrawals and are saying they will keep my money for good if I don't send them my documents.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 31, 2018, 04:24:56 PM
 #15

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you




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September 01, 2018, 12:32:00 AM
 #16

Your quote of the note on the FAQ at https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64 is very misleading.

And I already debunked with the help of my lawyer that note as ground to demand verification or documents:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44894787#msg44894787

The full note says:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

The note say you can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with your request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say you can block unverified accounts.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely your FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

You can say whatever you want: your TOS and FAQ don't allow you to demand verification from unverified costumers freely.

At the very least you have to have a pretty good justification. You failed to even address the question of why you did everything you did.

Don't invoke your TOS chapter 8.3 and 8.4: it applies only to situations of suspicions of money laundering as its titles makes clear: 8. AML REQUIREMENTS. You never accused me of that.

Are you going to try to accuse me of that now? How convenient... I haven't made a fiat withdrawal in 5 years, how could I do any money laundering without moving money to the banking system?

Moreover, my last crypto withdrawal was more than 1 year ago. Accusing me of money laundering would just be a bogus accusation which would kill the very last credibility you might still have.

What was the "anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account"? (8.3).

And 8.4 applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspects of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.

And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear: Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing.



But what is striking from your post is that you deliberately avoided answer very important questions:

I) Why all my means of withdraw were blocked months ago, at least on January/February 2018?

II) Why didn't you inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) Why when I complained you started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

IV) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

V) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VI) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 01, 2018, 08:11:05 AM
 #17

Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

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September 01, 2018, 01:02:59 PM
 #18

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you






Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

You are arguing your TOS allows you to wake up in the morning in bad mood and block a customer account because of that and I dont really care unless you start doing that!
You didnt reject any part of the OP history but you had three opportunities to give reasons why you blocked the OP account without saying nothing to him for months and why you demanded his verification against what you websites says but you refused to do that. If you arent a scammer it looks like you are acting like one. I guess your security reasons will force you to keep the OPs money also.

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September 02, 2018, 12:05:02 AM
 #19

He can't answer, because nothing changed on my activity or account during the last 5 years, except one thing: the balance got bigger thanks to the raise of bitcoin.

He can't confess that the issue that made them block my withdrawals was trying to take my money.

He had the nerve to suggest that I might be a hacker... somehow, a hacker hacked my brain, stole my memories and was able to quote detailed conversations I had with his co-founder Paci 6 years ago on Second Life like I did on several emails I sent them! Ridiculous.

One of the facts that point out for their goal being just steal my money is that they talk about doubts about my ownership but don't care for decisive evidence I have, like being the owner of the banking account used to receive 4 small withdrawals I made in 2013.

Insisting on my documents is just a pretext to keep my 35500 euros.

 

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 02, 2018, 11:04:13 AM
 #20

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you

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