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Author Topic: [ANN] HEAT: 3.0 crypto*multisig fiat*a2a hft*1000tps*DSA*PoS+PoP*e2ee chat*  (Read 418478 times)
idolacchacked
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July 14, 2016, 08:48:17 AM
 #261

why is the btc count going down ?

NXT dropped 16.5% http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nxt/ (total value display is real-time).
ah got it Smiley
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Eliphaz Fimk (OP)
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July 14, 2016, 08:50:01 AM
 #262

BTC: 317.985

ETH: 308.908

FIMK: 212,204,689

NXT: 4,968,248

Some bits still left for a moment on Stage 1 for BTC and a lot for ETH.

         
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Jack Needles
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July 14, 2016, 06:01:11 PM
 #263

Smart money would buy through ETH or FIMK right now.
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July 14, 2016, 06:07:33 PM
 #264

Its HEATING up ladys and gents.

Promising project, with very interesting concepts. Finally got through most of the tech info last night and snagged up some at P-lvl 1.

Good luck team!

Also, if you need Russian Translation of Ann still. PM me.
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July 14, 2016, 06:29:36 PM
 #265

Smart money would buy through ETH or FIMK right now.

Just ran the numbers based on current exchange rates and ICO price levels:

         HEAT price level       Exchange / BTC      1 BTC worth      HEAT
BTC               0.00013                    1                1      7692.3077
FIMK                   50           0.00000122      819672.1311     16393.4426
NXT                     4           0.00004412       22665.4578      5666.3645
ETH                0.0065             0.016874          59.2628      9117.3494


Be smart.
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July 14, 2016, 06:47:43 PM
 #266

ccex stage 1  almost sold out..hurry to get the last of the low sell Smiley

10k sat gone, now buying @ 13k Sat (96BTC left)

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July 14, 2016, 08:47:16 PM
 #267

Ok... I'm buying some HEAT  Wink
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July 14, 2016, 08:48:09 PM
 #268

Promising project, with very interesting concepts.

They sure are aren't they.

In case you or anyone else has any question(s) regarding our technology I'm more than happy to answer/discuss those.
After all that's what this thread is also for of course.

Not sure why ... But there seem to be very little technology related questions.  Undecided

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July 14, 2016, 08:58:54 PM
 #269

Ok... I'm buying some HEAT  Wink

Still available at a relative .00011440 BTC at current ETH price (ETH stage 1 @ .0065 still open)
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July 14, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
 #270

Promising project, with very interesting concepts.

They sure are aren't they.

In case you or anyone else has any question(s) regarding our technology I'm more than happy to answer/discuss those.
After all that's what this thread is also for of course.

Not sure why ... But there seem to be very little technology related questions.  Undecided


Not sure why, but also some of my questions that are technical never were answered - besides my questions about regulatory issues regarding Fiat-implementation and my questions about the economical design. Just for example:

1. Why did you chose PoS? Why do you believe it's a good solution for a project like this one?
2. Don't you believe that PoS leads into centralization over time and a weak system?
3. Why a pretty high inflation for the first four years and a hard cut down after the fourth year?
4. How do you plan to implement Fiat into a multisig-wallet?

And just by the way: It's kind of funny to show disappointment because of a lack of tech-questions while you guys not even prepared much infos about it, like a whitepaper. You both write a lot more about your plans to make one investment round after the other and you pay much more attention to explain how to send money into the ICO than in technical stuff.
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July 14, 2016, 09:10:17 PM
 #271

Ok... I'm buying some HEAT  Wink

Still available at a relative .00011440 BTC at current ETH price (ETH stage 1 @ .0065 still open)

Thanks... but...

Where can I buy in ETH?... On C-CEX there aren't sell orders https://c-cex.com/?lpm=eth&p=heat-eth ?
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July 14, 2016, 09:25:12 PM
 #272

Ok... I'm buying some HEAT  Wink

Still available at a relative .00011440 BTC at current ETH price (ETH stage 1 @ .0065 still open)

Thanks... but...

Where can I buy in ETH?... On C-CEX there aren't sell orders https://c-cex.com/?lpm=eth&p=heat-eth ?

Buy ETH on polo or trex, then send to ICO ETH address (read more about it at http://heatledger.com/ico.htm)

Quote
ETH:   0x4ea79a8ff56d39f5cb045642d6ce9cb0653e5e47
NOTE! Use your email address in the ETH Add data field.
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July 14, 2016, 09:32:00 PM
 #273

Ok... I'm buying some HEAT  Wink

Still available at a relative .00011440 BTC at current ETH price (ETH stage 1 @ .0065 still open)

Thanks... but...

Where can I buy in ETH?... On C-CEX there aren't sell orders https://c-cex.com/?lpm=eth&p=heat-eth ?

Buy ETH on polo or trex, then send to ICO ETH address (read more about it at http://heatledger.com/ico.htm)

Quote
ETH:   0x4ea79a8ff56d39f5cb045642d6ce9cb0653e5e47
NOTE! Use your email address in the ETH Add data field.

Ok.. I'm sorry... I read http://heatledger.com/ico.htm after I've written my post  Grin
Eliphaz Fimk (OP)
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July 14, 2016, 09:56:22 PM
Last edit: July 14, 2016, 10:50:06 PM by Eliphaz Fimk
 #274

Not sure why, but also some of my questions that are technical never were answered
That's because earlier you claimed NONE of your previous questions were answered, and that's grossly incorrect and provocational statement. It makes you look like a troll, better ignored because it implicates you'll accept no answer as valid. Commenting this now risks escalating your inclinations for non-constructive further argument, but maybe we can keep it down to earth.

Quote
1. Why did you chose PoS? Why do you believe it's a good solution for a project like this one?
It fits our technology well. Not so perfectly as an economic system, but technically as the consensus solution it's very robust. Also all the work on open source FIMK and NXT, which we know thoroughly, is there to be reused and leveraged. It's very hard and demanding to come up with well working consensus and p2p code from scratch. Those resources are better spent elsewhere and use the wheel that's already invented.

Quote
2. Don't you believe that PoS leads into centralization over time and a weak system?
Some centralization is to be expected with time, as we know through long experience with FIMK. But no that's not our concern on business platform like HEAT. Because HEAT isn't primarily a currency, and it has very little to do with attempts of solving any distribution problems. HEAT's focus is on the tokens enabling the technology. Here it doesn't matter whether even a single entity would hold most of the tokens.

Quote
3. Why a pretty high inflation for the first four years and a hard cut down after the fourth year?
It's part of the token distribution, which is an incentive for initial adoption and p2p network nodes through the relatively high block rewards. Your inflation figures were off BTW. It's more like this:

Year 1: 40%
Year 2: 21%
Year 3: 15%
Year 4: 8%
Year 5: 2.5%
Then getting lower each year.

So what you could do is regard the token supply of 50M HEAT as the base amount. It's just divided over 4 years. The token supply inflation after that is very low. And we're still considering the options to even be able to burn some through one of the multiple involved fee processes.

Quote
4. How do you plan to implement Fiat into a multisig-wallet?
Fiat will just be one base pricing asset (token), similar to a token that anyone can create on the HEAT blockchain. Those tokens will have multi-sig capability. When a licensed money transmitter operator (our JV partner, or someone else) comes to create their multi-sig tokens that represent their fiat currency operating under goverment authorized license, there we have it. Nothing difficult technically, more difficult bureaucratically. And we have exactly that more difficult side going forward well.

         
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July 14, 2016, 10:09:44 PM
 #275

Where can I buy in ETH?... On C-CEX there aren't sell orders https://c-cex.com/?lpm=eth&p=heat-eth ?
Fixed C-CEX HEAT Sell orders for ETH.


         
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July 14, 2016, 10:48:15 PM
 #276

I do not understand the 50% rebate thing. Its is confusing. I know others are confused about it as well. Can you please explain in detail? Thank you.

Jon
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July 14, 2016, 11:03:39 PM
 #277

I do not understand the 50% rebate thing. Its is confusing. I know others are confused about it as well. Can you please explain in detail? Thank you.

Jon
Later this year the company behinde HEAT will sell some shares in the company. If you buy enough HEAT tokens durring the ICO, you will be able to buy X amount of shares at half price.

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July 15, 2016, 12:38:27 AM
 #278

Not sure why, but also some of my questions that are technical never were answered
That's because earlier you claimed NONE of your previous questions were answered, and that's grossly incorrect and provocational statement. It makes you look like a troll, better ignored because it implicates you'll accept no answer as valid. Commenting this now risks escalating your inclinations for non-constructive further argument, but maybe we can keep it down to earth.  

Usually I'm careful with words. But if I wasn't, I would appreciate it if you show proof (just quote where I said that), especially if you try to mix that up with words like "troll" to justify what you say with "better ignored". And keep in mind that I started very friendly and with a honest intention for answers, because I hoped to find a project I would see as good Investment. And I was friendly in all of my first posts, even if critical. Now I may seem not to be, but I'm still factual/on topic. Plus: Keep in mind that it's needed to ask to get infos everybody should want to know about - there is no Whitepaper and the ANN is a list of "headlines" without deeper explanations about why and how.


This is what I found what I've said about questions and answers:

Post 142:

"I'm kind of concerned if I ask 3 questions and the two most important ones are not answered."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15557115#msg15557115

Post 158:

And there are still missing answers/infos to my previous questions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15556402#msg15556402

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15558325#msg15558325
 

Post 210:

"All questions I had I needed to ask and there was nearly no answer that was convincing for me personally. No problem if others have another opinion."

(...)

"There are two long posts without any answer!

About regulatory issues: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15561379#msg15561379
About the token and the economical design: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15561785#msg15561785"



Post 216:

"And if I ask 3 questions and 2 are important but just the one that is not that important is answered while the other ones are ignored - what would you think?"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15563436#msg15563436




Quote
Quote
1. Why did you chose PoS? Why do you believe it's a good solution for a project like this one?
It fits our technology well. Not so perfectly as an economic system, but technically as the consensus solution it's very robust. Also all the work on open source FIMK and NXT, which we know thoroughly, is there to be reused and leveraged. It's very hard and demanding to come up with well working consensus and p2p code from scratch. Those resources are better spent elsewhere and use the wheel that's already invented.

My concerns about PoS are basically two points, but I know that some guys who are much more experts than I will ever be, pointed out a lot of more flaws. But I will list my two main-concerns, especially when a coin starts with an ICO:

1. Over time there is no way to avoid a very unequal distribution. The big stakes are like a money-magnet, so it's a rich becomes richer - system right from the start, and that may even be more the case if the start is an ICO.

2. Costs for an attack are just one time costs - That's different to PoW.


And while the incentives to do an attack on a cryptocurrency may be not very high that could be different when it's about an exchange.

And this may be interesting for experts, which I'm not:

Excellent paper on why Proof of Stake is fundamentally flawed, linked to by Gavin Andresen in his AMA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2jwbvr/excellent_paper_on_why_proof_of_stake_is/


Why I point on that subject is because I'm really surprised to see an ambitious project starting with PoS when there are so much publications of flaws - or they are not correct.


Quote
Quote
2. Don't you believe that PoS leads into centralization over time and a weak system?
Some centralization is to be expected with time, as we know through long experience with FIMK. But no that's not our concern on business platform like HEAT. Because HEAT isn't primarily a currency, and it has very little to do with attempts of solving any distribution problems. HEAT's focus is on the tokens enabling the technology. Here it doesn't matter whether even a single entity would hold most of the tokens.

How does the token enables the technology? I understand that it's a fee-payment system. But I don't understand why it needs a token for it. Wouldn't it be possible to take just the fees of the coins that will be traded on Heat? And the fees could be paid out to those who secure the network and it would be a more like DpOS-System without a high inflation token in combination with PoS which will have impact on the economy, in a worst-case-scenario even on security.  

And since you want to run some more investment-rounds - If you wouldn't do this ICO but develop something you already could show, and of course, write a Whitepaper before, you could show "proof of concept" etc. It could be really an interesting project while it now looks more as if it needs a token to do an ICO even before you write a Whitepaper. And just by the way: That's the main-point why it needs questions to come to conclusions that are based on informations.  



Quote
Quote
3. Why a pretty high inflation for the first four years and a hard cut down after the fourth year?
It's part of the token distribution, which is an incentive for initial adoption and p2p network nodes through the relatively high block rewards. Your inflation figures were off BTW. It's more like this:

Year 1: 40%
Year 2: 21%
Year 3: 15%
Year 4: 8%
Year 5: 2.5%
Then getting lower each year.

So what you could do is regard the token supply of 50M HEAT as the base amount. It's only dividend for 4 years. The token supply inflation after that is very low. And we're still considering the options to even be able to burn some through one of the multiple involved fee processes.

See, I can't know why you chose such a design but just the 40% in the first year would really be enough for me to step back, even if everything else would look good in my opinion. 2 reasons:

1) ICO's are often bought up from groups who are behind the ICO. That's not meant as accusation but generally it's something an Investor can't be sure about and we've seen that several times. And to see a very high inflation rate in the first year would be an indicator for me to think about exactly that. That it could be intentionally.

2) And to say it's an incentive for initial adoption could be a wrong strategy. Because: Even if I wouldn't think about the possibility I spoke about above: What you see as incentive to buy also means high inflation! And that means sell-pressure.

Conclusion:

If I combine those two concerns out of Investor-perspective who has just the informations you provide, I would wait, even if I would believe in the project in general. I would expect to get it cheaper some time after launch on the exchange. That happens to a lot of ICO's (by the way: Also Factom was cheaper after launch for some time and I also did not buy into the ICO). And we've seen that several times just the last couple of weeks.


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4. How do you plan to implement Fiat into a multisig-wallet?
Fiat will just be one base pricing asset (token), similar to a token that anyone can create on the HEAT blockchain. Those tokens will have multi-sig capability. When a licensed money transmitter operator (our JV partner, or someone else) comes to create their multi-sig tokens that represent their fiat currency operating under goverment authorized license, there we have it. Nothing difficult technically, more difficult bureaucratically. And we have exactly that more difficult side going forward well.


Okay, I understand the technical solution. What I still have doubts about is that it will be possible to get a license for a decentralized exchange - and yes, I understand that it's about the partner-company. But the EU even wants to regulate Wallet-providers what shows the tendency.

But if it should be possible I expect that you need to do all the "know-your-customer-stuff" and that contradicts in some ways what it's about to do things in a decentralized fashion. To say it with other words: I don't see much reason to not use a centralized exchange like Poloniex instead, because it's possible to use it nearly as if it would be decentralized. I buy and withdraw what I bought and I deposit to sell. And it's not EU-law.

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July 15, 2016, 12:40:31 AM
 #279

I do not understand the 50% rebate thing. Its is confusing. I know others are confused about it as well. Can you please explain in detail? Thank you.

Jon
Later this year the company behinde HEAT will sell some shares in the company. If you buy enough HEAT tokens durring the ICO, you will be able to buy X amount of shares at half price.

How much is "enough?"

And how will we know we are buying at a price that is 50%?
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July 15, 2016, 12:49:00 AM
 #280

I do not understand the 50% rebate thing. Its is confusing. I know others are confused about it as well. Can you please explain in detail? Thank you.

Jon
Later this year the company behinde HEAT will sell some shares in the company. If you buy enough HEAT tokens durring the ICO, you will be able to buy X amount of shares at half price.

How much is "enough?"

And how will we know we are buying at a price that is 50%?
We dont know how much is needed. We most likely wont know until after the ICO.

They will likely be sold at a fixed price durring the IPO. So if the price is 10 EUR and you pay 5 EUR then its 50% off (share prices are just an example. I have no idea of what they will sell them for).

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